MarkW

Slightly off topic.... but I was thinking about taking out a sub to either Autocar or Autoexpress to get the weekly news.

Ive gone off Autocar over the last couple of years anyway, and after today I dont want to waste my money on it again.

Lets hope Autoexpress have more positve thinks to say tomorrow, their mag has cheaper subs as well

AndyPearce

Whilst it's very easy to be dismissive of this review because we don't like what it says we have to remember that this is why there is motoring press - to give a more subjective view.

It doesn't match the feelings of the forums US or Japanese owners but we are talking about people like ourselves whom have been waiting a long time for this car and want it to be good to justify their faith and patience.

I'm not saying this reviewer isn't wrong , it may be that he does have an alterior motive for being less than positive but until we get more reviews we can't say for sure.

I just think we need to take off our rose coloured specs occasionally and evaluate the RX8 based on all the available information , good or bad.

KEF

Autocar has been fairly crap for quite a number of years, personally the only review i would take seriously would be Car.

recurring problems with the car mags is an obsession with cars bearing the propeller symbol, even Car doesn't manage to escape critisism on this one. (generally overpriced underspec'd rep mobiles, albeit with a solid sounding door close)

acid test remains and will always be the personal road test, hopefully for madza's (and potentially our residuals) sake people won't be too put off by the likes of autocar, otherwise they'll steer clear of the show rooms.

Evil Weevil

Like many of you I was a tad pi**ed off by the mag's review. Then I found this. I you haven't found it, this is a review from a guy State-Side that is worth reading...

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...5649#post85649

... restored my faith a little!

morganrogers

Just spent time reading the whole article twice , properly.

I would just like to say that I personally am going to dismiss this article out of hand , and will be voting with my wallet. Not to Mazda , but Autocar , who will never get my £2.10 again !

I realize this seems odd , to not buy something because I dont like what they say about the car , but this is not really the case.

Read is properly.
And then again.

Every comment that may be positive is then trimmed with a snipe about some other aspect.

I am afraid , there has been some pay-off going on here....

Let's wait for the real mag reviews. For those of you who have not bought Autocar - dont bother. Trust me on this , there is nothing worth hearing.

Morgan.

PS - Although you have to say , Nissan have spent their money better than Mazda have with this formula woman nonsense....

Gord96BRG

Hi everyone, I just have to chime in here - my RX-8 has been occupying a spot in my garage for a week, right next to my Audi allroad! :D So, I've seen them side by side on frequent occasions - no comparison. I have the allroad set at it's lowest suspension position all the time anyway, so the wheel well gap is not that big, but it's still more than the RX-8. The ride height is reasonable - given that I intend to drive it year-round (we have real winters with snow here!), I wouldn't want to lower it at all.

There is more roll than on my 96 Miata, but then I have a set of aftermarket sway bars on it along with Koni shocks - the Miata rolled more than I liked originally. On the RX-8, it's part of a well-balanced approach - it's not intended to be a track special. Speaking of which, somewhere here on the RX-8 forum was posted a link to a recent review in Australia of the 350Z where it was savaged - they hated the suspension setup and interior, and criticised the motor as being much too harsh. The 350Z suspension was much too stiff for real world effectiveness over rough or broken pavement, and understeer transitioning to snap oversteer was a real problem.

Body flex due to the lack of a B pillar? Only in the reviewer's dreams. The car's structure is very stiff, as Mazda went to great lengths to ensure no shortcomings in this regard. The reviewer is indulging in wishful thinking with that claim (wishful in that he obviously dislikes the RX-8 and wants something to complain about), since all the objective numbers about chassis torsional and bending stiffness are against him.

I've absolutely no regrets over choosing the RX-8. It's the real thing!

Regards,
Gordon

Lensman

HERETIC!

The rear of the 350Z is one of the things that conclusively put me off it when I saw it for real whereas the rear of the RX-8 looked OK. It's subjective of course and each to their own.

This review malarkey is very interesting and it's hard to know what to make of it. Bear in mind that 4-Car have also driven the RX-8 and love it (even compared to the Z) then it might be down to the style of the driver (if we discount conspiracy theories). If the Autocar driver was a full on racer then they might well prefer the Z to the RX-8 but they are totally different cars. Oh, I don't know. Let's just hope we've made the right choice, hope for the cancellation of 'Formula Wimmin', better reviews, and an end to this uncertainty.

787B

Whilst i havent bothered to read the Autocar review as yet, as a long time Rotorphile their comments, as have been relayed thru this forum, seem entriely consistant with the magazines attitides to Rotarys.

They have never embraced the Rotary with the entusiasium that Rx Mazdas have been received in the global press, and they have without exception, ALLWAYS slated a Rotary Mazda.

I for one, having owned 4 Rxs, whilst welcoming anothers opinion, would promptly put this mag in the trash.... not for what it says, but for what it dosnt, and ANY magazine is at best a representative impression(s) of a momentary glimpse of typical ownership, NOTHING MORE!.

It is ANNOYING that mainstream motoring mags can get it so wrong, but then their influance is pretty minimal for the true enthusiasts. What they do for the most part though is disseminate incorrect info, that does our cause no good at all.

I for one, having owned 4 Rxs, whilst welcoming anothers opinion, would promptly put this mag in the trash.... not for what it says, but for what it dosnt, and ANY magazine is at best a representative impression(s) of a momentary glimpse of typical ownership, NOTHING MORE!.

DRIVE the car, do your own test, its got to work for you. Yes its nice when the mags love the car, but it is NO gurantee of success in the market place, for if it where, the FD Rx7 would be an all time best selling Rx, as it WAS THE CAR.

MarkW

Thanks for the info Gord96BRG, its good to hear from an actual owner.

Just goes to show what complete b0ll0x Autocar is :D

pelucidor

I am that guy, and actually I am from London (dare I say it an Essex boy to be perfectly candid) but happen to live further west nowadays. Nobody here would have a clue about 'roundabouts'. Originally I was fanatical about the S2000 (dreamt about the car for weeks after a few drives), but gave that idea up when we found we were expecting a baby. The RX-8 is the best 4-seat car I have ever been in - not perfect of course but an astonishing compromise. I look forward to owning one within 48 hours.

For those that are interested I spent some time writing up a lengthy review of test drives of the EVO and WRX with some comparisons to the RX-8 (and Infiniti G35). I tried to use a 'British car mag' style of writing as opposed to the much more dull American automotive rags. See here.

AnilS

All. Can no one see the Autocar joke! Autocar don't like the 8, fine. They also panned the Golf R32, in favour of the RS Focus. EVO (mag) have it the other way round. They can't make a constructive decision, and heres my point (or the joke).

What Car gave the 8, 5 out of 5, What Car's sister mag ........ Autocar ..... Infighting maybe ?

Nuff said.

AnilS.

Werner

I hope so.

To clarify my point: my usage pattern of the RX-8 would include frequent +200 km/h driving. If you actually use top speed, it makes sense to have the gearing set up in such a way that top speed is reached in the final gear. If you do it differently (longer), you give away performance (and options), which will be especially bad in a car that is not a torque monster at low RPM.
An example: the 6-speed MX-5 is rated at a lower top speed than the 5-speed models because neither 5ths (slightly too short) nor 6th (way too long with the Euro-spec diff (3.64) is suitable for top speed driving. It also sacrifices a lot of performance in e.g. mountain driving. Just like with the stock MX-5s 5-speed, the gap between 2nd and 3rd is rather large. With a 6speed and a fitting diff (like I have in my 91 Miata), real world performance in mountain driving is much improved.
A sports car with too long gearing is like a sportscar with too much weight.
It is absolutely clear to me that this is a total non-issue for many users, but not for me, obviously not for Autocar and not for many German car magazines.

FWIW, YMMV

ChrisW

I have just read this review, and it seems the reviewer has two main problems with the car:

1) He doesn't like the styling (well, it takes all sorts...)

2) He doesn't think it handles particulary well.

Now I think we can agree that an RX-8 that didn't look good and didn't handle well would be a pretty pointless car, so it's not surprising that the overall tone is negative.

What I don't understand is how he can disagree with every review ever published anywhere in the world with regard to the handling. The thing that worries me about this slightly is that Autocar are the first to drive the UK spec car on UK roads. Maybe the softer suspension is not well suited to UK B-roads?

Jon Brittan

Or maybe it's simply typical reviewer bias?

I've worked with some of the review magazines and a few car companies internally in the past and I can tell you one thing... subjective real world opinions on cars are only magnified in that world, people like and dislike cars before they've even seen them and sometimes they're even told what to like or otherwise relative to the advertising revenue made from a specific manufacturer.

Remember when Top Gear reviewed all the family saloons of th latest generation (Mondeo 2, Laguna 2, Vectra etc.) they barely had a good word to say about the Mondeo throughout the article, but when it came to allocating points to the cars the Mondeo won... Strange? Go through that specific issue and look how many Ford adverts are in the magazine.

Also, a lot of the time, magazine reviews are proof-read but not editor sampled before going to press, so if one reviewer has a specific bias about a car but is still allowed to review it then they can say whatever they like regardless of how biased it is and it likely won't be picked up before hitting press.

renegade_si

Chris

Auto Express test drove the exact same car (same number plate GK 03 KKE).

They said - "A supple suspension set up offers a comfortable ride and a good degree of stability, although the body design with its wide opening doors means that theres some flex and wobble in the shell. However this movement is far from being instrusive and leaves the RX-8 feeling like a bigger MX-5".

That last sentence sums it all up. Autocar bloke likes it completely taught, RX-8 isn't completely that, little bit looser.

Thats fine by me as I dont want a teeth rattler.

Also, on autocars review, as stated above, they dont understand that torque doesn't happen in rotary, it doesn't boost, its SMOOTH all the way through. Therefore its different. Fact. If you don't like it, bugger off and buy a V6.

Me, I've never driven one, but like the idea. The more "refined" cars are often trying to do this, keep the power even across the range. Therefore less torque.

Autocar are poo.

RobDickinson

Ultimatly its us who will be buying the car.

We have to decide if we like it enough to purchase, or not. While magazine reviews and Tv spots etc may affect public perception about the vehicle , I dont think they have that much influence. Think back to the Vectra launch, I dont think any car ever had that much universal slagging by the press, but it didnt affect sales at all (I know its a fleet car but still, they do have a choice too) - same for other cars (deisil disco's etc).

If a magazine review mentions a badly placed gear leaver I'll look out for that when I get in the car, but if I find it ok then I'll discount it, its not the magazine that'll be driving the car.

It'd be nice if all new cars were great - no faults, perfect in every way, but were all individuals and as such no car will be a fit all.

But I hope I do love the RX-8 qwhen I get to drive it, as I dont have many options for alternatives, as I;ve said, if it doesnt feel (to me) as fun to drive as say an MX-5 then I'll pass.

ChrisW

Frankly, I think Auto Express is a comic - they are easily impressed by anything new and different (ditto What Car, when it comes to performance cars). It was a very brief review and it sounded like they just drove the car round the block.

The magazines that really drive cars and whose views I would generally pay attention to are: Car, Evo and (I have to admit) Autocar.

I suspect the Autocar article was just down to individual bias on the part of the tester (throughout the article he kept saying "I" not "we" so there clearly was only one tester). Let's hope that's confirmed by good reviews over the next few months.

Lock & Load

Most journalist earn a fairly low salary and they spend most of their time dreaming of maybe one day owning some of the cars they test .

IMOthe only reviews that really count are those of the real buyers of the cars and not journalists who are compromised with freebies by different car manufacturers , shock horror , yes most of them get FREE trips expense accounts, wined and dined so they writte favourable or unfaourabel articles depending who is looking after there pockets .

THERE NOTHING MORE THAN CHEAP HOOKERS .

AnilS

At last, just read the Autocar article. I too like Autocar, CAR and Evo, and I respect the road tester, Chris Harris, as a driver and decent journalist. The article obviously expresses his personal opinion, which of course, he is entitled to. He does'nt like the 8 compared to the 350Z, thats fine, but it does'nt make the 8 a bad car. I'm sure if they sort out the quality issue on the Nissan, it will ultimately be better, as most will see it has a "normal" engine. This is where people carry prejudice, possibly even Chris Harris.
Alternatively, Autoexpress' (it is a comic) Mike Rutherford raves about the 8, and again a journalist I respect.
Its down to personal preference, like most things, and the 8 does it for me. Simple.

AnilS.

morganrogers

... So why do you think that-- ?

Just curious....

aceman

I dont think the Rx-8 is in the same legue as the 350z. They are two different cars with two different abilities. The Z is faster sounds better and handles better. The Rx-8 just does not have the ponies to compare with the Z. Z's dyno at 234 at the wheels stock, the RX-8 is getting what 180. Thats a big difference. I like the looks of the Rx-8 but the Z is more my kinda of car. Plus i dont have a family so i dont need the 4 seats. I have drove both cars, just depends on what you want the car to do for you. Are you looking for a strait line great handling car then the Z is it.

Have to wait and see what the after market has instore for the Rx-8. Its still new, give it a year and there will be plenty of parts for it. Im sure most of you did not buy the car for its power ability.

Lets just hope after 2000 miles it dynos at higher than 180hp at the wheels.

later

AnilS

Morgan, I think ultimately the Nissan could be better because people will stick to what they know, i.e. a V6 engine is not unusual, whereas a rotary (and I've never experienced one at all) is still too much of an unknown to most. As a hardcore car the Nissan could be seen as more of a true enthusiates car, and initial quality issues aside, the Nissan has a different appeal.
I for one can't wait for the 8 (too long presently). Issues such as lower torque haven't disuaded me, as long as its got more than my Focus, thats enough for me.

AnilS

RobDickinson

I seemed to think the 8 had less torque than my 1.8 focus , but thats not true...

Focus 1.8 5dr weigth = 1195 (inc fuel and 75kg driver) - seems low to me(from ford website)?
torque = 160 Nm at 4400 min-1 (rpm)
power = 85 kW (115 PS) at 5500 min-1 (rpm)

RX-8 weight = 1400 or so?
Torque = 211Nm @ 5500rpm
Power = 231ps/177kW@ 8200rpm

So should pull just as well as the focus at least, mebee with a few more revs on.

AnilS

Rob I am happy with my Focus' torque, and knowing that the 8 has more (albeit at slightly higher revs) makes me happy.

AnilS.