morganrogers

Oh dear.
We could be in trouble here chaps....

Mazda posted me an insurance leaflet today so I called (wanting to know really if they had a group for the car yet).
They said they were quoting so I went through it all.

V bad news.

Car is group 20. (although they are quoting as grp16 because they are Mazda)
Compulsory XS of £450
Must have tracker fitted. Period.

I am 31yo , full no claims , no accidents , clean license etc etc...

£1,449.24 ! !

To put that into context , I pay ~£750 for my integra TypeR at the moment - and that is group 18.

Personally I am horrified !
I never expected anything like that.......

Anyone else ?


oops - hit the wrong edit button - sorry morganrogers -
jimbobjoe

Lensman

Hold on: why do you say it's group 20 if Mazda are saying group 16, I don't understand that bit. Secondly, if a tracker is mandatory then why isn't it a standard feature on the car. Thirdly, Mazda's own insurance is bound to be higher than someone like Direct Line or Tesco (he says hopefully). The price they quoted you is 50% more than I expected to pay and somewhat horrific. It can't be group 20 surely, it's not that valuable and not that fast. Surely cars like the Viper are in that group or maybe top end Mercs (guessing)?!

morganrogers

I put it down as it was told to me -

The lady said that the cars official rating is group 20 , (the implication being that other insurance companies were going to rate it thus).
Because they are the Mazda insurance service (although the underwriter was Zurich I think) they are quoting on the car as if it were a group16 (The idea being that it will be cheaper and we all insure with them I guess).
Hopefully that clears that up - I am not making this up.... Odd it may be , but that is what was said.

ref Tracker - no idea. Some insurance companies want it , some dont. Guess that is why it is not fitted.

Not convinced by your theory of Mazda being more. I had a yamaha motorcycle insured through yamaha scheme and it was half the price of anyone else. Kinda hoped for the same with this....

Anyway - the whole point of the post was 'This price is crazy'. I have had quotes on an EVO7 , an NSX and a Skyline all cheaper than that.....

Let us hope that insurance companys do not price this car from the market.

Morgan.

RichardJ

I suspect that since the car hasn't had it's NCAP rating assessed nor will Thatcham have got their hands on it to give it's final insurance grouping then the mazda insurance co are keeping on the side of caution and quoting on the high side.

Christ, I'm hoping that's the case....at those prices, I'm gonna have to cancel.

RobWilliams

The WhatCar website says insurance group 20 and typical quote of £1967.

This is absurd for a 22k car and I will cancel my order if I have to pay more than £750. Hopefully being 43 , max no claims etc will help.

Cheers

Rob

Lensman

Yep, if it turns out to be group 20 then Mazda have totally shot themselves in the foot (again) because the target market of a family person wanting a bit of sportiness in the old wagon will NEVER stretch to insurance costing £1500 or more. If this is true then the car is effectively dead and Mazda with it. That's a bold statement but for once I think it's true. This could spell disaster for the whole project!


EDIT: Here's a list of cars in group-20

I presume that the BMWs are M class but what are the Audis doing in there?! So the RX-8 is in the same group as a Ferrari eh? Hmmm... However, spot the Honda S2000! Now there's a bit of conclusive evidence to my mind. The RX-8 is group 20 for sure. Uh-Oh!

morganrogers

Group20 just means anything that requires individual referral.

Just because Ferrari and Mazda are the same group (20) does not mean same cost... Just means they both require 'special' quoting.

RX8 should not be here......

Scary stuff.

Lensman

Well I ran my details through Tesco's online quoter for an S2000 which must be vaguely comparable (Group 20, similar price and power) and it gave me a price of just over £1000. Now I live in a quiet area which pulls it down a bit but I'm hoping the RX-8 will be a similar amount.

MarkW

Not good news

My Impreza STi is currently group 20 and I was expecting the RX-8 to come in at 16-18.

If worst comes to worst try Liverpool Victoria as I am paying £760 at the moment. Tescos wanted over £1000.

I might try ringing them up tomorrow for a comparative quote.

This is bad news for Mazda if the car is group 20.

oilman

Well, this is a shock!

Having been in the Insurance Business for many years before becoming an Oilman, I simply find Group 20 as incomprehensible.

What is the justification?

The facts:

Low value £22000.

Small engine capacity / bhp under 250 / 0-60 and top speed good but nothing to write home about.

Mazda repair costs are not in the "scooby", "TT" or BMW league.

Four door four seater with a raft of safety features.

It does not add up so don't panic yet. The problem may be that it's an unknown quantity and you'll find most Companies at this stage unwilling or unable to quote. (We don't even have proper
0-60 times or top speeds for UK yet)

I may be wrong but I would have expected it to come in around the same as the 225bhp TT or BMW 330 coupe.
These cars are more expensive which is part of the rating basis so RX8 should be somewhat lower on 80% of their value.

Mazda may have completely c**ked this one up. I heard on the radio the other day that Mazda's future "relied on the RX8" many, many people will be put off at 7% of the cars value!!

I will be looking to put it in my wife's name and have her insure it if that is the case. (Insurance Coy's love women drivers)

We'll just have to wait and see but I'll ask my wife to call Mazda
for a quote.

Cheers
Oilman

Titanium Grey

I work in Insurance business been involved for over 7 years.

I don't work in the underwriting section, but have asked underwriters about how the cost of car insurance is calculated before.

The majority of the premium is to cover for personal injury or death, either of these circimstances will cost a lot more to the insurer than a fender bender or theft.

They examine the car and estimate how likley it is that personal injury may occour. High power + low cost means younger more inexperienced drivers can afford the car, hence more high speed accidents, higher insurance. Add to this the industry has possible nerves about the revolutionary design (no B pillar).

I must say though I was expecting around group 18.

If it is twenty there will however be a wide range of prices available from different companies, so shop around.

jimbobjoe

I agree that mazda will have a major problem on their hands if premiums of £1500 are required.

When I looked at Audi TTs I was quoted £650 for the 225bhp. I was expecting the mazda to be similar. Paying twice as much as expected for insurance could kill this car dead. I for one will have to seriously reconsider if that is the case.

But as has been mentioned, if this car doesn't have thatcham approval yet then the insurance costs are purely speculative. But then why would Mazda panic people by giving out quotes ??

RobDickinson

No way am I buyiung one if the insurance is 2x an Audi TT.

I wont be riped off like that from the insurance companies.

If this is true it'd be a shame, although I'm not 100% convinced yet.

jimbobjoe

Right. I have just got off the phone with both Mazda Insurance (zurich are the underwriters), and Mazda UK.

Mazda Insurance have confirmed that the RX-8 240bhp is a group 20. For me, a 33 year old in Surrey, with full no claims, no points etc
the quote is (including protected no claims, legal cover and replacement vehicle)......
.................................. £ 1581 with a £450 excess

In a word, pathetic.

To put this in perspective I got quotes from direct line for a few other cars:

Audi TT 225 Coupe = £600 (£300 excess)
Subaru Impreza turbo WRX STi = £850 (£400 excess)
Porsche Boxter 2.7 = £999 (£500 excess)

Now direct line don't list the RX-8 yet so a real comparison is not possible, but this is indeed worrying. A grand a year extra for the RX-8 over the TT was not in my budget plan.

Mazda Insurance also said that this car required a Tracker. They also said that as it is a group 20 car it should come fitted as standard.

So I called Mazda UK to ask them.


The women at Mazda UK I spoke to did not think that the insurance group has been confirmed yet. She also did not know about whether a tracking device would be fitted. She thought this would be confirmed nearer to release date.

I pointed out to her that having their own insurance division telling people that they will have to remortgage to afford the insurance could have a negative impact on sales, and possibly result in cancelled preorders.

Someone is going to get back to me later today.

I will keep you posted.

morganrogers

Anyone considering cancelling if this turns out to be true ?

I have to say - much as I want it I am just not prepared to pay £1500 to insure the car.
Will keep pre-oder until the last minute (say beginning of July) but if I have not bettered it by then, I may well consider my options.

Never thought I would say that , and hopefully wont come to it.

Says quite alot doesn't it that we (the real enthusiasts who have ordered a car they have never even driven) are considering a cancel.... How would they hope to attract 'casual' buyers that the RX8 needs if this insurance thing is true ?

I think jimbobjoe has a good point - Mazda need to stop their own insurance people giving out these scary quotes. Word will get round.

(worried)

MarkW

Thanks for the info Jimbobjoe.

If it is group 20 which it looks like, it is bad news for us all.

However I think those quotes from Mazda are uncompetitive. Based upon your other quotes I would expect you to get a quote around £800ish from directline.

If I pay £760 for my STi I would still expect the RX8 to be less than that as the STi was £27500 and 265bhp, compared with £23500/240bhp.

I agree if they are advising you need a Tracker then why is one not fitted?

With group 20 insurance, having to buy a tracker and low mpg this is adding up to a very expensive car to run.

oilman

Good point Mark W.

A agree with your comparison to STi, the values and Bhp are higher. You will also probably find that the Mazda repair costs will be lower especially as the B pillar is contained in the door and this can be replaced.

I also believe that most manufacturers with group 20 cars would carry much higher repair costs than Mazda.

I would also say that the RX8 is an "unknown" quantity at present and nearer the time there may be more competitive quotes out there.

Finally, Mazda are touting the "safety" of the car as a feature, is this just "sales talk" or a fact?

MAZDA should STOP quoting ridiculous prices at this early stage!!

Cheers
OILMAN

jimbobjoe

Maybe things are not as bad as they appear.

As I said earlier I can get insurance on an Audi TT from direct line for £600. That I consider to be reasonable.

As direct line don't list the RX-8 yet I can't compare them for this car.

So I went to Zurich's website (as they are the underwriters of Mazdas insurance) to get a comparable quote for a TT.

Audi TT 225 coupe, fully comp etc.... £1300.

So Zurich are over double the price of Direct Line for comparable cover on an Audi TT.

So that would suggest that the RX-8 could be insured for around £800 by a 'proper' insurance company. That I can afford.

It is still however monumentally stupid of Mazda to freak everyone out with outrageous insurance quotes when there is no basis for reasonable comparison available.

It seems that Zurich are not a competitive insurance company for this type of car. SO WHY ARE THEY USING THEM ?????


Not a very well thought out policy I think......
:o :o :o

morganrogers

Here here.

Panic not , re-assess in July when there will be accurate quotes , and in the meantime - MAZDA - Stop these people giving out these quotes ! ! !

M.

Lensman

I should remind you all once again that the Honda S2000 is group 20 and a similar car in many respects. Try doing an online quote on THAT car and see what you get. For me it was just over £1000. At TESCO

Ali

LOL.

I remember when I pre-ordered my Civ Type R thinking it would be group 16 and then panicking because it went up to 18.

However, a few quotes around the various insurers and I got it down to £560!!! That's for a 32 and 27 year old (wife) with FNCB and garaged overnight. Also includes £350 excess, no more, with Direct Line.

I also remember phoning Honda Insurance (also run by Zurich) and laughing at the poor operator when she quoted me at £1800!

I wouldn't worry folks.

oilman

Called my Insurance Broker today (an old pal of mine) to ask if he had any ideas on the RX8.

He was very surprised to hear group 20, he said that he would have expected 18 at worst.

He also said that we're all to premature, seeking quotes now and he rang half a dozen Companies to get more info. Not one of them would quote due to lack of "official" info and statistics.

He informed me that the best Company to call for Group 20 cars if the RX8 was one would be Norwich Union.

He also said that Zurich are always "very expensive" and not renown for their expertise in Group 20 cars.

He also informed me that Direct Line often refuse to quote Group 20 cars depending on alarms, locality and age.

He advised me to call back in late June, early July and will go shopping then for me.

I don't know if this helps but we'll see nearer the time.

Cheers
Oilman

PS. My father runs a Porsche 928 and pays £360 per year with Norwich Union. It's Group 20!!

18ME

Regarding having a tracker fitted, I'm not a lover of them. The obvious reason is that I don't want the car back if its nicked.

Although I don't like them, Tesco's who I used to insure my Porsche last year insisted on my having it fitted so I did from new by the dealers. I was under the impression at the time that if one insurance company insisted on it then maybe they all do.
When I sold the Porsche I put an Audi A6 on the same policy (no tracker required) then more recently put my BMW 330ci on the same policy and this time they said I need a tracker fitted, but I said that if I have to have one fitted I would cancel the policy and go elsewhere.
What surprised me was they said OK we'll cover you the same without a tracker, without any problems.
So sometimes they can be leanient but like the rest of you guys, if they want stupid money I wont take delivery of mine either.

I paid approx £750 insurance for the Boxster S @ £46k a small refund on the Audi and a slight addition to the BMW, 36 Full NCD and only 1 speeding fine.

Lensman

Titanium Grey!

18ME

Oh yeh. sorry about that. Must have been late at night when I listed the profile.
My 330ci is Titanium Silver.

I'll change it now as I don't want to upset anybody:p