AndyPearce

I know where you're coming from Chris. I'm not overly worried by the numbers game, it's real world performance that's the deal breaker for me.

What I am concerned about is Mazda's behaviour in this debacle - they are either incompetant or dishonest as far as I'm concerned and both are worrying traits for a company you are going to spend £23,500 plus ongoing parts and servicing on.

RobDickinson

Not quite sure about what?

Austraila have Basicaly Euro stage 3 emmisions, and have 177KW/240ps spec cars. Were told 240ps meets Euro3, and 231ps meets euro4, and we get euro 4 for a few reasons (so they dont have to change spec in 04/05 and braging rights on emmisions).

But now, personaly, I dont trust mazda's number at all.

Car manufacturers do plan years ahead. Usualy 8-10 years for long term plans easily. Although engineering problems can crop up right until start of production that affect performance.

The Renasis isnt that new now, mazda have been working on it for a long time, and as ChrisW says, mazda will know exactly what that engine is realy doing - remember these will have been ran and tested on benches and in cars for a lot of miles - and carefully examined at every stage. mazda have to make sure this engine can run for atleast its waranty period.

Now if the (uk)car meets its stated performance figures (6.4 to 100km/h etc) then I dont see it as a problem as such, but the deception by a company who's selling you a £20k+ car is awfull.

I dont mind real numbers, hell I'd love a basic Lotus Elise, even at 118bhp its still a great car, as is the RX-8, whatever its power. But lotis didnt feel the need to lie about the cars power to try hike up sales, as they knew they;d fall flat on their face, and didnt need to.

With the miata power problem in the US and now this, who will belive mazda ever?

ChrisW

You really think Mazda will compensate us for any power deficiency? Apparently they are not even going to compensate the Canadians who get the same spec vehicles as in the US. Fear of being sued in the extremely litigous US is the only thing that has made them offer compensation.

I might delay my order until next year, when we should have a better idea just what the performance of this car actually is. But I don't know if I can wait that long - there's a big risk I'll have bought something else in the meantime.

RobDickinson

They are aparently offering Canadians the same(ish) deal as the US.

Buy back -or- waranty servicing.

Unfortunatly Canada has a shorter waranty (same as us = 36kmiles instead of US's 48kmiles) - so it works out at less of a deal.

I know the RX-8 isnt all about HP, but were paying a price for its performance already (hint - dont look at the TT225's MPG, realy, I mean dont...)

I want a fast, great perfroming car, and this is still it (for now). But it does make me wonder what I'm buying.

And since I ordered I've seen it go from TT beating power (240ps) to TTish power (231ps) now to 220bhp?

Honestly , if there was another car under £30k that had anything like the promise of the RX-8 I'd be gone by now.

Edo

This is the worry. I havent reset the fuel consumption trip on my 225 TT since I got it, and after 15,000 miles I am averaging 30.2 MPG.... Without driving like an old woman I can assure you. I dont car if the consumption is only 20, but I want to feel I am getting my monies-worth for the penalty!

If we get a car with the same performance as those that the press have had (given the good review in Evo, Express etc) then I will be happy. If those cars are more powerfull, I will be VERY VERY p@ssed off.

AndyPearce

How would we ever know? Without having access to both and doing performance tests and dyno's we'll never really know if the press RX8's (and therefore the ones forums members have test driven so far) are any different to the production versions. The only indicator will be if the forum members notice a significant difference to their test drives and the time difference will be long enough to make that difficult to recall accurately.

Edo

True. I will be testing as best I can one of the press cars (20 mins is hardly conclusive), and then testing mine when it arrives before handing over my cash.

As you say it will be difficult to prove, and the new car wont be run in. If it doesnt feel good, then Dyno and conversation with my lawyer (who is my father!)...

The Ace

Not sure about whether Mazda "knew" or "didnt know".....

As many of you, I dont really have all the info and data, so cannt really make any judgement calls.......

RobDickinson

They'll have ran 100,000's of miles on the Renasis already in development.

They will know that engine 100%, so I dont see how this is a suprise to them.

One theory is that they've droped from 247 to 238 hp and get a 5% leeway legaly, which takes it down to 226hp, so getting closer to the truth?

Who knows. Only things are I dont want another drop in power here, a 3rd wouldnt be nice, and will probably hit sales/resale value.

The Ace

You know what ? Something that I just thought: as you all know, Mazda didnt actually publish the Renesis HP output until late 2002. So, the figures that have been floating around (mainly the 250HP figure) must have been hearsay, or probably leaks from initial dyno-tests with the preproduction units (which of course had no emissions restrictions).......

So I'm guessing the first "real" figure must be the 240HP or 238HP, which then became 231HP. However, with this power at the flywheel, even a 4WD drive should be putting more than 190HP at the ground. A 2WD (even a RWD) like the RX8, should be well above that number.......

I really dont know what to guess/imagine, so I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, until a "proper" dyno-test has been performed on EU-spec cars......

RobDickinson

The power output for the US cars is on the 'window sticker' which is basicaly the core stats/package info.

lol, they were upset enough about the whole 250/247ps/bhp thing

ChrisW

It will be very hard to tell initially what the performance of our cars is because for the first 600 miles we can't use the high revs - and it's at high revs where the power shortfall is supposed to be.

We can get a quicker idea of performance from driving the dealer's demo cars, which should be run in. But then how much can you tell from a test drive?

The Ace

Guys, dont know about UK or other countries, but almost all the magazines in Greece dyno-test all cars that they review, so we'll know as soon as they test the RX8

RobDickinson

And you think they go out and buy a motor to test?

Just which cars do you think the press have been playing with in UK, Belgium and Italy? there not salable production moddles and dont fall under the same restrictions.

jimbobjoe

Just out of curiosity I tried to look up exactly what EURO3 and EURO4 standards are.

I cannot find them on the web at all.

The only references to EURO4 (and there are quite a few) describe it as an emissions standard for diesel engines.

What aren't Mazda telling us !!!!!!!!!

MarkW

Waiting for your shiny new RX-8 should be an enjoyable time of excitement and anticipation, instead we have been discussing delivery delays, power loss issues and possible conspiracy theories.

Whatever you think about this issue, the whole thing is taking the shine off buying the car. It's a real shame that the launch of such a great car has been messed up so badly.

At least if you order a 350Z (or any other car for that matter) you know when you are getting it and what the specific power output will be...............

Hopefully my test drive will get me back on track (but that is a pre-production car, so how do I know it is the same spec as my production car.......etc etc )

mr_digital_uk

Mark,

I thought the test car I drove this weekend was a production model (not pre-production). So ... expect your test drive to be representative of the real thing.

Cheers,

Andy

MarkW

I hope you're right, but a number of other posts have indicated that these are Euro spec, but pre-production models that are close to, but not actual production spec.

The arguement from some is that the Renesis *may* not have the exact spec of power output of the production cars, and there is little chance of knowing for sure.

Guess we will have to wait and se...

The Ace

They dont "buy a motor" or a car, for that matter, but they do try to pick up a "seller", i.e a production car. That goes for 4Troxoi (which I'm sure they do), but this should apply for all the "proper" and decent magazines, because we all know there have been similar cases in the past with dealer cars (or pre-production units).....

MarkW

Had an email from Mazda today, after questioning the problems in the US and the power output of our cars. The following was stated:

"The UK RX-8s will definitely produce 192ps and 231ps."

"The vehicles with the dealers are still pre-production, however, we understand that they match the power output of production vehicles"

Cheers
Mark

oilman

Thanks MarkW, at least that's one thing cleared up.

Good luck with your test drive. I'm looking forward to your opinion as I've got another month to wait.

Cheers
Oilman