Advice needed on engine Oil for Rx8
02-08-2006, 10:04 AM
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Advice needed on engine Oil for Rx8
Hi All,
Not too sure if this topic has been discussed before but I'm confused with regard to the use of engine oil for RX8 and hope any guy or gals who have the above expereince to share .
Queries :
1. I was told before it is not advisable for RX8 to use synthetic oil as the rotary engine itself needed the mineral oil to lubricate it engine ? Is this correct ? If synthetic oil is used, the rate at which it consume the synthetic oil will be much faster then mineral oil thus frequency for checking of oil has to be increase !
2. A recent trip to the agent confirm that RX-8 can also use synthetic oil ,so which is correct ? and what is better for our 8.
3. Car currently running on mineral , if i need to change to synthetic, does it means that i have to get the agent to do a engine flash before putting synthetic ?
Btw, I was also told before that the synthetic oil will damage the rubber seal of our engine , is this true ( although it doesnt makse sense but it is better to confirm
)
Not too sure if this topic has been discussed before but I'm confused with regard to the use of engine oil for RX8 and hope any guy or gals who have the above expereince to share .
Queries :
1. I was told before it is not advisable for RX8 to use synthetic oil as the rotary engine itself needed the mineral oil to lubricate it engine ? Is this correct ? If synthetic oil is used, the rate at which it consume the synthetic oil will be much faster then mineral oil thus frequency for checking of oil has to be increase !
2. A recent trip to the agent confirm that RX-8 can also use synthetic oil ,so which is correct ? and what is better for our 8.
3. Car currently running on mineral , if i need to change to synthetic, does it means that i have to get the agent to do a engine flash before putting synthetic ?
Btw, I was also told before that the synthetic oil will damage the rubber seal of our engine , is this true ( although it doesnt makse sense but it is better to confirm
)
02-08-2006, 08:42 PM
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Queries :
1. I was told before it is not advisable for RX8 to use synthetic oil as the rotary engine itself needed the mineral oil to lubricate it engine ? Is this correct ? If synthetic oil is used, the rate at which it consume the synthetic oil will be much faster then mineral oil thus frequency for checking of oil has to be increase !
Ans: Myth. Synthetic oil can lubricate rotary engine as well. In fact, all kind of oils can, not only mineral oil. Just that you need the right mixture of oil. As for the consumption rate, also not true. Both type of oils wil be consumed by the engine, regardless of types or viscosity.
2. A recent trip to the agent confirm that RX-8 can also use synthetic oil ,so which is correct ? and what is better for our 8.
Ans: Can use both synthetic and mineral. Which one is better, its really up to personal preference or budget. Some prefer the good old mineral oil. Some prefer branded rotary oil. Its really down to wat u wan to use.
3. Car currently running on mineral , if i need to change to synthetic, does it means that i have to get the agent to do a engine flash before putting synthetic?
Ans: No. No need to do engine flush.
Btw, I was also told before that the synthetic oil will damage the rubber seal of our engine , is this true ( although it doesnt makse sense but it is better to confirm )
Ans: Again, myth. Dun listen to rumours.
1. I was told before it is not advisable for RX8 to use synthetic oil as the rotary engine itself needed the mineral oil to lubricate it engine ? Is this correct ? If synthetic oil is used, the rate at which it consume the synthetic oil will be much faster then mineral oil thus frequency for checking of oil has to be increase !
Ans: Myth. Synthetic oil can lubricate rotary engine as well. In fact, all kind of oils can, not only mineral oil. Just that you need the right mixture of oil. As for the consumption rate, also not true. Both type of oils wil be consumed by the engine, regardless of types or viscosity.
2. A recent trip to the agent confirm that RX-8 can also use synthetic oil ,so which is correct ? and what is better for our 8.
Ans: Can use both synthetic and mineral. Which one is better, its really up to personal preference or budget. Some prefer the good old mineral oil. Some prefer branded rotary oil. Its really down to wat u wan to use.
3. Car currently running on mineral , if i need to change to synthetic, does it means that i have to get the agent to do a engine flash before putting synthetic?
Ans: No. No need to do engine flush.
Btw, I was also told before that the synthetic oil will damage the rubber seal of our engine , is this true ( although it doesnt makse sense but it is better to confirm
)Ans: Again, myth. Dun listen to rumours.
02-09-2006, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by EBS
Take this as a guide:
RE Amemiya (special rotary tuner) oso offer Synthetic oil for RX8 hehe
RE Amemiya (special rotary tuner) oso offer Synthetic oil for RX8 hehe
02-09-2006, 12:30 AM
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[QUOTE=rav969]Hi All,
2. A recent trip to the agent confirm that RX-8 can also use synthetic oil ,so which is correct ? and what is better for our 8.
[QUOTE]
If u had your servicing done at Mazda Motor, regardless what oil they used Mineral or Synthetic.
U will be rest asure that if something goes wrong with the engine MazdaMotor will cover it under the warranty period.
But if u do not have any service record with them with the 3years period,
No matter what oil u used, even if its the correct one or the best one.
They will tell u that its your fault that u did not maintain it in the correct way.....
2. A recent trip to the agent confirm that RX-8 can also use synthetic oil ,so which is correct ? and what is better for our 8.
[QUOTE]
If u had your servicing done at Mazda Motor, regardless what oil they used Mineral or Synthetic.
U will be rest asure that if something goes wrong with the engine MazdaMotor will cover it under the warranty period.
But if u do not have any service record with them with the 3years period,
No matter what oil u used, even if its the correct one or the best one.
They will tell u that its your fault that u did not maintain it in the correct way.....
02-09-2006, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rav969
Hi All,
Not too sure if this topic has been discussed before but I'm confused with regard to the use of engine oil for RX8 and hope any guy or gals who have the above expereince to share .
Queries :
1. I was told before it is not advisable for RX8 to use synthetic oil as the rotary engine itself needed the mineral oil to lubricate it engine ? Is this correct ? If synthetic oil is used, the rate at which it consume the synthetic oil will be much faster then mineral oil thus frequency for checking of oil has to be increase !
2. A recent trip to the agent confirm that RX-8 can also use synthetic oil ,so which is correct ? and what is better for our 8.
3. Car currently running on mineral , if i need to change to synthetic, does it means that i have to get the agent to do a engine flash before putting synthetic ?
Btw, I was also told before that the synthetic oil will damage the rubber seal of our engine , is this true ( although it doesnt makse sense but it is better to confirm )
Not too sure if this topic has been discussed before but I'm confused with regard to the use of engine oil for RX8 and hope any guy or gals who have the above expereince to share .
Queries :
1. I was told before it is not advisable for RX8 to use synthetic oil as the rotary engine itself needed the mineral oil to lubricate it engine ? Is this correct ? If synthetic oil is used, the rate at which it consume the synthetic oil will be much faster then mineral oil thus frequency for checking of oil has to be increase !
2. A recent trip to the agent confirm that RX-8 can also use synthetic oil ,so which is correct ? and what is better for our 8.
3. Car currently running on mineral , if i need to change to synthetic, does it means that i have to get the agent to do a engine flash before putting synthetic ?
Btw, I was also told before that the synthetic oil will damage the rubber seal of our engine , is this true ( although it doesnt makse sense but it is better to confirm
)This question can open a can of worms... There has been TONS & TONS of debates on the subject of which oil to use and whether Synthectic oil should be used.
Here are some opinions of rotory engine drivers which I took from USA forums...It took me days to read all the debates and it goes on forever.. Here are some:
1) The main reason you should never use synthetic oil in a rotary is because it virtually does not burn at cooler temperature which is what a rotary engine was actually designed to do via the oil metering pump for startup and running lubrication. Some tuners say to bypass the pump and run a two stroke oil/gas mix while others say to hook up a reservoir to it and eliminate the sump feed. Either way it all boils down to the fact that synthetic motor oils cause harmful buildup on the apex seals which can lead to low compression and premature housing damage necessitating a costly rebuild. I am no god on this subject but I strongly caution you from synthetics as my engine was the victum of such an oil.. I now run standard 10w 40 or if your hellbent on easy starting in the winter a synthetic blend is somewhat acceptable. I hope I have been somewhat helpful in this matter.
2) Oh, this goes on forever doesn't it? I've heard all the arugments for years now. When the RX-8 first came out I checked. Mazda says not to use synthetic oil in that recently developed rotary engine. For me at least, that's enough to tip the balance in favor of dino oil and 3,000 mile oil changes.
And yeah, yeah I have the documentation (although I"m hoping I won't have to go diving into my extensive files to fish it out. )
3) I went to a special preview of the RX-8 at the local dealership. The oil question was one of the first things I wanted to know. I went digging through the glovecompartment and found a pamphlet called the Mazda RX-8 Drivers Guide.
With the permission of the salesman, I was allowed to take it home. I'll post a scanned image of the relevant section later if I get time. Here's what it says:
"By design, rotary engines consume a small amount of engine oil to lubricate internal engine components. Use the oil dipstick to inspect the oil level when refueling, and if the level is near or below Low, add enough oil to bring the level to Full.
Add only non-synthetic 5w-20 engine oil with SL or ILSAC on the container label. For added safety, an engine oil level warning light on the instrument panel will indicate low engine oil level."
This was for the RX-8, but the FD RX-7 owner's manual also warns again the use of synthetic oil. The viscosity for the RX-7 is prescribed to be 10w-30 or 5w30 depending on the prevailing temperature.
You'll hear all sorts of opinions, and anybody can do what they want with their own car, but I've played it conservative and I figure if the Mazda engineers have specifically warned against using synthetic, then I probably won't go too far wrong by following their recommendation.
4) Well I read that the Mazda race teams all(or some of the higher end ones) use synthetic in their rotaries, so....? Also Ive read the whole legal issue story about what happend with use of synth in the first rotaries...This is an arguement that will never end, but it doesnt really matter, people use synth and never have a problem, its basically what you wanna do.
5) Racing engines are built to win races not last 100,000 miles or more. So what works in racing may not be the best for an everyday car.
There's more I could say on this, but I don't really care what people do with their own cars. I will put out some information that I know, and people can do with it what they will and draw their own inferences.
6) The combustion temps in the rotary engine are about what 1200-1600F? Can anyone tell me what temp most synthetic oil hits flash point? ~600F Now with that in mind, what are the odds that there is going to be leftovers in the combustion chamber from oil? The older oils didn't have the technology that we have today. That is the reason that the synthetic oils used to have a bad rap. Older oils used to not be good, and most if not all were very bad to use in the rotary engine. I use royal purple racing 21 in our Project 86 TII and I use royal purple 10W30 regular synthetic oil in my 91 N/A vert. I gained 3HP on the G-Tech and aftermarket oil gauges registered -5F just at idle and up to -15 under hard boost. Oil pressure was lowered by about 3-5psi compared to dino oil.
Also, the electric OMP's were from 89+. I have never heard of any data referring to an OMP failing due to synthetic. I really can't see how it would affect it. Personally, I remove them and sell them before I install the motor then I get back a couple hunderd bucks to offset the motor
On someones question about Mobil 1. I have never used it, but I know FB drivers that use it and a few that race with it. They all love it. I also know people that have put it into their piston cars/trucks and have had the motor leak like crazy when they added it.
7) "The Mazda factory does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in their rotary engines - specifically addressing this issue in the Owner's Manual.
In 1979, Racing Beat began testing synthetic lubrication products. Without a doubt, the best synthetic oils do perform well in extreme heat (over 300 F) and extreme cold (below 32 F), but by the nature of Mazda's rotary engine, the oil temperature never exceeds 250 F without severe engine damage due to other factors. In Souther California, we have difficulty seeing the low-temperature benefits: however, when we put synthetic lubricants in the engine, transmission, and differential in our IMSA GTU race car, we immediately saw what we later found to be a common result: The oil temperature in all three locations dropped 5 to 10 F for the same operating conditions. This is apparently due to two factors: reduced friction between sliding surfaces, and reduced foaming. As we continued to use synthetic oil products it became clear that they genuinely reduced wear. We also found benefits in street use. On two occassions, cars with "scratchy" transmissions synchronizers were completely cured by a change to synthetic gear lube. After many years of experience with these products we have observed only one problem: because of the reduced friction, the time necessary to break in an engine, transmission, or limted slip differential (standard differentials are no problem) is excessively long, so we recommend using mineral oil in all three for a time to ensure rapid break in."
--------------------------
WELL, Well.... if u are interested to read more.... go to this Rx7 Forum http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...ghlight=oil%3F
do a search there and u can spend the next few days reading.
From my experience, SOME(i empahsize some) synthetic oil does create more carbon in the internals like the apexi seals.... I can say that cos I compared my car with my friends car who uses only Rotory engine oil after the rebuild.
Some synthetic oil are more suitable for rotories(search the forum link above to read all the numbers, dyno, test and facts sheet).
I agree with Coupe07, in that it also depends on your budget... If I have a low budget, I would go with mineral oil and do a regular change... say every 3000km.
If you can afford, go for rotory engine oil... RE_Amemeiya, Trust Rotory, R-Magic etc etc..
I used to use non-rotory Synthetic oil but I am using Trust Rotory oil now.... Personally, it took me a while to realise that its worth spending abit more, which we should be able to afford since we are driving Rotories Rx7 & Rx8, on a good oil to both protect the internals as well as extending its life spand.
My 2-cents worth...
Last edited by DonJuan; 02-09-2006 at 12:44 AM.
02-09-2006, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by DonJuan
Hi Rav,
This question can open a can of worms... There has been TONS & TONS of debates on the subject of which oil to use and whether Synthectic oil should be used.
Here are some opinions of rotory engine drivers which I took from USA forums...It took me days to read all the debates and it goes on forever.. Here are some:
1) The main reason you should never use synthetic oil in a rotary is because it virtually does not burn at cooler temperature which is what a rotary engine was actually designed to do via the oil metering pump for startup and running lubrication. Some tuners say to bypass the pump and run a two stroke oil/gas mix while others say to hook up a reservoir to it and eliminate the sump feed. Either way it all boils down to the fact that synthetic motor oils cause harmful buildup on the apex seals which can lead to low compression and premature housing damage necessitating a costly rebuild. I am no god on this subject but I strongly caution you from synthetics as my engine was the victum of such an oil.. I now run standard 10w 40 or if your hellbent on easy starting in the winter a synthetic blend is somewhat acceptable. I hope I have been somewhat helpful in this matter.
2) Oh, this goes on forever doesn't it? I've heard all the arugments for years now. When the RX-8 first came out I checked. Mazda says not to use synthetic oil in that recently developed rotary engine. For me at least, that's enough to tip the balance in favor of dino oil and 3,000 mile oil changes.
And yeah, yeah I have the documentation (although I"m hoping I won't have to go diving into my extensive files to fish it out. )
3) I went to a special preview of the RX-8 at the local dealership. The oil question was one of the first things I wanted to know. I went digging through the glovecompartment and found a pamphlet called the Mazda RX-8 Drivers Guide.
With the permission of the salesman, I was allowed to take it home. I'll post a scanned image of the relevant section later if I get time. Here's what it says:
"By design, rotary engines consume a small amount of engine oil to lubricate internal engine components. Use the oil dipstick to inspect the oil level when refueling, and if the level is near or below Low, add enough oil to bring the level to Full.
Add only non-synthetic 5w-20 engine oil with SL or ILSAC on the container label. For added safety, an engine oil level warning light on the instrument panel will indicate low engine oil level."
This was for the RX-8, but the FD RX-7 owner's manual also warns again the use of synthetic oil. The viscosity for the RX-7 is prescribed to be 10w-30 or 5w30 depending on the prevailing temperature.
You'll hear all sorts of opinions, and anybody can do what they want with their own car, but I've played it conservative and I figure if the Mazda engineers have specifically warned against using synthetic, then I probably won't go too far wrong by following their recommendation.
4) Well I read that the Mazda race teams all(or some of the higher end ones) use synthetic in their rotaries, so....? Also Ive read the whole legal issue story about what happend with use of synth in the first rotaries...This is an arguement that will never end, but it doesnt really matter, people use synth and never have a problem, its basically what you wanna do.
5) Racing engines are built to win races not last 100,000 miles or more. So what works in racing may not be the best for an everyday car.
There's more I could say on this, but I don't really care what people do with their own cars. I will put out some information that I know, and people can do with it what they will and draw their own inferences.
6) The combustion temps in the rotary engine are about what 1200-1600F? Can anyone tell me what temp most synthetic oil hits flash point? ~600F Now with that in mind, what are the odds that there is going to be leftovers in the combustion chamber from oil? The older oils didn't have the technology that we have today. That is the reason that the synthetic oils used to have a bad rap. Older oils used to not be good, and most if not all were very bad to use in the rotary engine. I use royal purple racing 21 in our Project 86 TII and I use royal purple 10W30 regular synthetic oil in my 91 N/A vert. I gained 3HP on the G-Tech and aftermarket oil gauges registered -5F just at idle and up to -15 under hard boost. Oil pressure was lowered by about 3-5psi compared to dino oil.
Also, the electric OMP's were from 89+. I have never heard of any data referring to an OMP failing due to synthetic. I really can't see how it would affect it. Personally, I remove them and sell them before I install the motor then I get back a couple hunderd bucks to offset the motor
On someones question about Mobil 1. I have never used it, but I know FB drivers that use it and a few that race with it. They all love it. I also know people that have put it into their piston cars/trucks and have had the motor leak like crazy when they added it.
7) "The Mazda factory does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in their rotary engines - specifically addressing this issue in the Owner's Manual.
In 1979, Racing Beat began testing synthetic lubrication products. Without a doubt, the best synthetic oils do perform well in extreme heat (over 300 F) and extreme cold (below 32 F), but by the nature of Mazda's rotary engine, the oil temperature never exceeds 250 F without severe engine damage due to other factors. In Souther California, we have difficulty seeing the low-temperature benefits: however, when we put synthetic lubricants in the engine, transmission, and differential in our IMSA GTU race car, we immediately saw what we later found to be a common result: The oil temperature in all three locations dropped 5 to 10 F for the same operating conditions. This is apparently due to two factors: reduced friction between sliding surfaces, and reduced foaming. As we continued to use synthetic oil products it became clear that they genuinely reduced wear. We also found benefits in street use. On two occassions, cars with "scratchy" transmissions synchronizers were completely cured by a change to synthetic gear lube. After many years of experience with these products we have observed only one problem: because of the reduced friction, the time necessary to break in an engine, transmission, or limted slip differential (standard differentials are no problem) is excessively long, so we recommend using mineral oil in all three for a time to ensure rapid break in."
--------------------------
WELL, Well.... if u are interested to read more.... go to this Rx7 Forum http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...ghlight=oil%3F
do a search there and u can spend the next few days reading.
From my experience, SOME(i empahsize some) synthetic oil does create more carbon in the internals like the apexi seals.... I can say that cos I compared my car with my friends car who uses only Rotory engine oil after the rebuild.
Some synthetic oil are more suitable for rotories(search the forum link above to read all the numbers, dyno, test and facts sheet).
I agree with Coupe07, in that it also depends on your budget... If I have a low budget, I would go with mineral oil and do a regular change... say every 3000km.
If you can afford, go for rotory engine oil... RE_Amemeiya, Trust Rotory, R-Magic etc etc..
I used to use non-rotory Synthetic oil but I am using Trust Rotory oil now.... Personally, it took me a while to realise that its worth spending abit more, which we should be able to afford since we are driving Rotories, on a good oil to both protect the internals as well as extending its life spand.
My 2-cents worth...
This question can open a can of worms... There has been TONS & TONS of debates on the subject of which oil to use and whether Synthectic oil should be used.
Here are some opinions of rotory engine drivers which I took from USA forums...It took me days to read all the debates and it goes on forever.. Here are some:
1) The main reason you should never use synthetic oil in a rotary is because it virtually does not burn at cooler temperature which is what a rotary engine was actually designed to do via the oil metering pump for startup and running lubrication. Some tuners say to bypass the pump and run a two stroke oil/gas mix while others say to hook up a reservoir to it and eliminate the sump feed. Either way it all boils down to the fact that synthetic motor oils cause harmful buildup on the apex seals which can lead to low compression and premature housing damage necessitating a costly rebuild. I am no god on this subject but I strongly caution you from synthetics as my engine was the victum of such an oil.. I now run standard 10w 40 or if your hellbent on easy starting in the winter a synthetic blend is somewhat acceptable. I hope I have been somewhat helpful in this matter.
2) Oh, this goes on forever doesn't it? I've heard all the arugments for years now. When the RX-8 first came out I checked. Mazda says not to use synthetic oil in that recently developed rotary engine. For me at least, that's enough to tip the balance in favor of dino oil and 3,000 mile oil changes.
And yeah, yeah I have the documentation (although I"m hoping I won't have to go diving into my extensive files to fish it out. )
3) I went to a special preview of the RX-8 at the local dealership. The oil question was one of the first things I wanted to know. I went digging through the glovecompartment and found a pamphlet called the Mazda RX-8 Drivers Guide.
With the permission of the salesman, I was allowed to take it home. I'll post a scanned image of the relevant section later if I get time. Here's what it says:
"By design, rotary engines consume a small amount of engine oil to lubricate internal engine components. Use the oil dipstick to inspect the oil level when refueling, and if the level is near or below Low, add enough oil to bring the level to Full.
Add only non-synthetic 5w-20 engine oil with SL or ILSAC on the container label. For added safety, an engine oil level warning light on the instrument panel will indicate low engine oil level."
This was for the RX-8, but the FD RX-7 owner's manual also warns again the use of synthetic oil. The viscosity for the RX-7 is prescribed to be 10w-30 or 5w30 depending on the prevailing temperature.
You'll hear all sorts of opinions, and anybody can do what they want with their own car, but I've played it conservative and I figure if the Mazda engineers have specifically warned against using synthetic, then I probably won't go too far wrong by following their recommendation.
4) Well I read that the Mazda race teams all(or some of the higher end ones) use synthetic in their rotaries, so....? Also Ive read the whole legal issue story about what happend with use of synth in the first rotaries...This is an arguement that will never end, but it doesnt really matter, people use synth and never have a problem, its basically what you wanna do.
5) Racing engines are built to win races not last 100,000 miles or more. So what works in racing may not be the best for an everyday car.
There's more I could say on this, but I don't really care what people do with their own cars. I will put out some information that I know, and people can do with it what they will and draw their own inferences.
6) The combustion temps in the rotary engine are about what 1200-1600F? Can anyone tell me what temp most synthetic oil hits flash point? ~600F Now with that in mind, what are the odds that there is going to be leftovers in the combustion chamber from oil? The older oils didn't have the technology that we have today. That is the reason that the synthetic oils used to have a bad rap. Older oils used to not be good, and most if not all were very bad to use in the rotary engine. I use royal purple racing 21 in our Project 86 TII and I use royal purple 10W30 regular synthetic oil in my 91 N/A vert. I gained 3HP on the G-Tech and aftermarket oil gauges registered -5F just at idle and up to -15 under hard boost. Oil pressure was lowered by about 3-5psi compared to dino oil.
Also, the electric OMP's were from 89+. I have never heard of any data referring to an OMP failing due to synthetic. I really can't see how it would affect it. Personally, I remove them and sell them before I install the motor then I get back a couple hunderd bucks to offset the motor
On someones question about Mobil 1. I have never used it, but I know FB drivers that use it and a few that race with it. They all love it. I also know people that have put it into their piston cars/trucks and have had the motor leak like crazy when they added it.
7) "The Mazda factory does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in their rotary engines - specifically addressing this issue in the Owner's Manual.
In 1979, Racing Beat began testing synthetic lubrication products. Without a doubt, the best synthetic oils do perform well in extreme heat (over 300 F) and extreme cold (below 32 F), but by the nature of Mazda's rotary engine, the oil temperature never exceeds 250 F without severe engine damage due to other factors. In Souther California, we have difficulty seeing the low-temperature benefits: however, when we put synthetic lubricants in the engine, transmission, and differential in our IMSA GTU race car, we immediately saw what we later found to be a common result: The oil temperature in all three locations dropped 5 to 10 F for the same operating conditions. This is apparently due to two factors: reduced friction between sliding surfaces, and reduced foaming. As we continued to use synthetic oil products it became clear that they genuinely reduced wear. We also found benefits in street use. On two occassions, cars with "scratchy" transmissions synchronizers were completely cured by a change to synthetic gear lube. After many years of experience with these products we have observed only one problem: because of the reduced friction, the time necessary to break in an engine, transmission, or limted slip differential (standard differentials are no problem) is excessively long, so we recommend using mineral oil in all three for a time to ensure rapid break in."
--------------------------
WELL, Well.... if u are interested to read more.... go to this Rx7 Forum http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...ghlight=oil%3F
do a search there and u can spend the next few days reading.
From my experience, SOME(i empahsize some) synthetic oil does create more carbon in the internals like the apexi seals.... I can say that cos I compared my car with my friends car who uses only Rotory engine oil after the rebuild.
Some synthetic oil are more suitable for rotories(search the forum link above to read all the numbers, dyno, test and facts sheet).
I agree with Coupe07, in that it also depends on your budget... If I have a low budget, I would go with mineral oil and do a regular change... say every 3000km.
If you can afford, go for rotory engine oil... RE_Amemeiya, Trust Rotory, R-Magic etc etc..
I used to use non-rotory Synthetic oil but I am using Trust Rotory oil now.... Personally, it took me a while to realise that its worth spending abit more, which we should be able to afford since we are driving Rotories, on a good oil to both protect the internals as well as extending its life spand.
My 2-cents worth...
02-09-2006, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by coupe07
Pls do take note that the TRUST rotary oil is semi synthetic.......
Yes, it is... You are right. Not all synthetics are bad for rotories like I have emphasized, you have to use the right synthetics mixture design for our rotories... Thanks for bringing that point out again
02-09-2006, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by DonJuan
Hi Coupe07,
Yes, it is... You are right. Not all synthetics are bad for rotories like I have emphasized, you have to use the right synthetics mixture design for our rotories... Thanks for bringing that point out again
Yes, it is... You are right. Not all synthetics are bad for rotories like I have emphasized, you have to use the right synthetics mixture design for our rotories... Thanks for bringing that point out again
AFter that, i swear by RE oil and nvr looked back.....
AGree with u, end of the day, have to be the correct mixture. Synthetic or mineral or semi syn, reach 5000 - 7000km, just have to change. For mineral, maybe wun last as long, however they are cheap.
Last edited by coupe07; 02-09-2006 at 12:56 AM.
02-09-2006, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by coupe07
hi bro, fyi, i'm using RE AMEMIYA full synthetic oil for my 8.... up til 25,000km, i was using mineral oil.
AFter that, i swear by RE oil and nvr looked back.....
AFter that, i swear by RE oil and nvr looked back.....
Haha... my friend and I would say that for Trust Rotory oil... You know why you and I will never go back to mineral oil or whatever oil?? Because we have moved from "normal" oil to Rotory oil... which its mixture & composition are designed for our Rotories. Of course we will see the results and see the difference..
But which Rotory oil is better... thats another level of discussion. But I definately will try RE Amemiya in one of my oil change since i have heard so much positive feedback about it.... I will get my friend to try it too... then we can compare which Rotory oil has its pros and cons ya
Engine oil is not the only component to a healthy engine, like you say.. one very important factor is the regular oil change... even if you use the best oil rotory oil in the world and ignore this 1st rule of thumb.... You have wasted your efforts...
Last edited by DonJuan; 02-09-2006 at 01:17 AM.
02-09-2006, 03:49 AM
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wow..... 
I salute everyone of you for you knowledge !!! the conclusion is : - I will use rotary engine oil when my warranty is over. Since I'm sending to MM , i will stay with mineral until either 3 yrs is up or i hit the 10000KM.
Can advise where can i get the different type of rotary engine oil ?
I salute everyone of you for you knowledge !!! the conclusion is : - I will use rotary engine oil when my warranty is over. Since I'm sending to MM , i will stay with mineral until either 3 yrs is up or i hit the 10000KM.Can advise where can i get the different type of rotary engine oil ?
02-09-2006, 09:57 AM
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1) The combustion in the engine is definately hot enough to buy all oils. If syns do not burn at that temp; we can start replacing heat insulators with syns.
Syn is way cleaner than min as it is completely produced artificially and does not contain ash and impurities as you would expect in min oils. Makes sense right?
2) Mazda has released memos, statements, notices, etc to distributers around the world that syn can be safely used.
And if syn is damaging; wouldn't oil giants like BP, Shell, Caltex, etc warn rotary users not to use syn. With multi-million R&D; i am sure they would have covered rotary engines too. If it was damaging; there would be warnings on its packagings and such. Read: class action lawsuits, multi-million liability payouts.
3) The 13b in the 8 is a new engine and should not be compared to the 7s.
4)If there were really problems with syn in 13b? I am pretty sure some money minded person would have brought relevant entities to the courts for a quick buck.
5) Not long distances, but with enignes always near redline of abt 10k rpms, its way more damaging you can trash your car in everyday driving. I am sure race teams will ensure their engines have to last till the finish line.
6) Sounds like 1200-1600f is hot enough to burn a syn with a flash pt of 600, so point 1 is debunked. Even startup combustions should be hot enough. Flash point refers to the minimum temp the oil gives off enough vapor pressure to combust. So anything higher burns it.
But i would like to say that syns should not be used so early; earlier than 1000-2000kms. The 13b has a coating applied from the factory to run in the engine properly and syns may interfere in that coating to do it job.
I used min for 1000km, then semi-syn for the next 1000km and i totally flush and use syn then on. And i basically change the oil whenever it hits the low oil level.
Bottomline. I felt syn really do perform better.
Syn is way cleaner than min as it is completely produced artificially and does not contain ash and impurities as you would expect in min oils. Makes sense right?
2) Mazda has released memos, statements, notices, etc to distributers around the world that syn can be safely used.
And if syn is damaging; wouldn't oil giants like BP, Shell, Caltex, etc warn rotary users not to use syn. With multi-million R&D; i am sure they would have covered rotary engines too. If it was damaging; there would be warnings on its packagings and such. Read: class action lawsuits, multi-million liability payouts.
3) The 13b in the 8 is a new engine and should not be compared to the 7s.
4)If there were really problems with syn in 13b? I am pretty sure some money minded person would have brought relevant entities to the courts for a quick buck.
5) Not long distances, but with enignes always near redline of abt 10k rpms, its way more damaging you can trash your car in everyday driving. I am sure race teams will ensure their engines have to last till the finish line.
6) Sounds like 1200-1600f is hot enough to burn a syn with a flash pt of 600, so point 1 is debunked. Even startup combustions should be hot enough. Flash point refers to the minimum temp the oil gives off enough vapor pressure to combust. So anything higher burns it.
But i would like to say that syns should not be used so early; earlier than 1000-2000kms. The 13b has a coating applied from the factory to run in the engine properly and syns may interfere in that coating to do it job.
I used min for 1000km, then semi-syn for the next 1000km and i totally flush and use syn then on. And i basically change the oil whenever it hits the low oil level.
Bottomline. I felt syn really do perform better.
02-09-2006, 09:58 AM
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And i like the old car maintainence saying that " Any oil is always better than no oil." So at the very least, check oil level often and syn vs min is still due to personal preference.
02-09-2006, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CoupeM
Is it advisable to change oil after the first 1000km? MM only give servicing at 5000km.
02-09-2006, 08:46 PM
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Kenny: Now its Patrick!
I always find it strange why MM only requires the first servicing to be 5k instead of usual 1k for most new cars.
There is one particular car manufacturer who says their gearboxes (though well-known and good) need not change fluids for 100,000kms at lest. And the catch is that when the owner really did not change the fluid; they will have to replace the whole gearbox. Its a dirty industry secret. Seems true to me since they can make more money from gearboxes than servicing. I cannot disclose the make; anyway its easy to guess.
Maybe its still better to do thing by gut feel and common sense. I have already changed all my fluids. Coolant, ATF, diff.
Oh ya, when i did the flushing i found loads of aluminium filings in the waste liquid. Imagine it circulating in the coolant system for the year before your next coolant flush.
I always find it strange why MM only requires the first servicing to be 5k instead of usual 1k for most new cars.
There is one particular car manufacturer who says their gearboxes (though well-known and good) need not change fluids for 100,000kms at lest. And the catch is that when the owner really did not change the fluid; they will have to replace the whole gearbox. Its a dirty industry secret. Seems true to me since they can make more money from gearboxes than servicing. I cannot disclose the make; anyway its easy to guess.
Maybe its still better to do thing by gut feel and common sense. I have already changed all my fluids. Coolant, ATF, diff.
Oh ya, when i did the flushing i found loads of aluminium filings in the waste liquid. Imagine it circulating in the coolant system for the year before your next coolant flush.
02-09-2006, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CoupeM
Recently when I check my oil level, the oil seem dirty to me. That is why I wonder if the oil can last till 5000km.
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