Defi Gauge
03-12-2006, 10:25 AM
#26
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more gauge more pwr ? if really concern should spend e $ on bigger radiator like Koyo around $800, deeper pocket go for ARC, FI 8 need it. Some rex with 6 gauge ? may be they really need it with that size of turbo they put in. But in term of profit margin, selling gauge is good.
03-12-2006, 11:57 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by SomeGuy_sg
Emperor - hehe...14.7 AF ratio or Stoichiometric Ratio is not the best. It is just that at 14.7 there is more air than fuel so there is a more complete combustion with little or no hydroncarbon left. Resulting in in a less polluting exhaust gas. If you read the articule from motec concerning the renesis engine, they found that it like a AF ratio of 13.5-13.6 or 0.92-.93 is the best over all.
..... coz every setting you seems to have the best settings and know everything ... 
03-12-2006, 02:00 PM
#28
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Watoke - Haha... I am not expert nor am i professional . I am just a normal person with a rotor
in my brain. It has been there for a long time. I do not claim to know everything but i just wanna know more. Would love to get my paws on a 13B and a Renesis and strip those suckers down :P
I guess you did not see my posting about my no. plate being SBS huh ..haha..
in my brain. It has been there for a long time. I do not claim to know everything but i just wanna know more. Would love to get my paws on a 13B and a Renesis and strip those suckers down :P
I guess you did not see my posting about my no. plate being SBS huh ..haha..
03-12-2006, 07:34 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by SomeGuy_sg
100*C for the water temp seems a bit high for me. A better limit would be 84-90*C
Unless you've changed your radiator, the cap, or the thermostat, usual operation would be as follows:
80-84 Thermostat valve begins to open.
95 Thermostat valve fully opens.
>97 Low speed fan operation.
>101 High speed fan operation regardless of A/C status
97 - 101 High speed fan operation if A/C is on.
For a standard premix glycol based coolant is usually 50% concentration, that gives you about a 106 in boiling point, plus your stock 0.9 bar coolant cap (rating between 0.73 - 1.03), gives you an extra 20 thereabouts.
So give or take, the coolant will start boiling at about 120-130.
On normal daily driving, since we don't live in places like Dubai, the twin cooling fans are pretty efficient. Unless you seem to enjoy keeping your foot on the pedal even on standstill, then heaven help you.
So I'd set my warning buzzer at 115 - 120. Less unnecessary panic on harder driving.
03-12-2006, 11:06 PM
#30
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Our 8's stock radiator cap is 1.3 bar. Usually cars run 1.1 bars.
Someguy_sg: Running rich below 14.7 is great for high revs with turbo engines or advanced timmings and/or high compressions; its not to increase power but to prevent detonation.
In fact running slightly lean nets you more power but you are flirting with overheating and detonations esp at higher revs. More fuel is actually injected to cool the engine. Our eight runs slightly rich stock at higher revs.
Too rich and the fuel does not vapourise enough; its like trying to use a 100ml cup to store 130ml of water.
Nobody in the right mind will run too rich if they want power; lean settings consume less petrol and nets gains. In fact if you want to know more on the discussion on engine tuning, check out the e-manage forum on the main page.
And maybe if you enrich the a/f too much, you may end up with soaked plugs and a flooded engine.
Someguy_sg: Running rich below 14.7 is great for high revs with turbo engines or advanced timmings and/or high compressions; its not to increase power but to prevent detonation.
In fact running slightly lean nets you more power but you are flirting with overheating and detonations esp at higher revs. More fuel is actually injected to cool the engine. Our eight runs slightly rich stock at higher revs.
Too rich and the fuel does not vapourise enough; its like trying to use a 100ml cup to store 130ml of water.
Nobody in the right mind will run too rich if they want power; lean settings consume less petrol and nets gains. In fact if you want to know more on the discussion on engine tuning, check out the e-manage forum on the main page.
And maybe if you enrich the a/f too much, you may end up with soaked plugs and a flooded engine.
03-13-2006, 01:56 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by Emperor
Our 8's stock radiator cap is 1.3 bar. Usually cars run 1.1 bars.
03-13-2006, 03:45 AM
#32
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Mugo - 94*C for fully opening ? Mm...You got a good point. But if that is the case i rather the warning light be at 105*C. And let the 20*C of the radiator cap be a buffer.
Emperor - I do not think that a 13.5-.6 will be enriching too much. Infact you might have to take away fueling from those points cause the stock ecu runs rich. On the stock ecu, the renesis already floods the engine and soaks the plugs.
ps; e-manage is one piggy that will not want to touch with a 10foot pole. Personal preference..
Emperor - I do not think that a 13.5-.6 will be enriching too much. Infact you might have to take away fueling from those points cause the stock ecu runs rich. On the stock ecu, the renesis already floods the engine and soaks the plugs.
ps; e-manage is one piggy that will not want to touch with a 10foot pole. Personal preference..
03-13-2006, 07:04 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by sqflyer
Changing to 1.3 bar doesn't make it better than 0.9 bar!
03-13-2006, 07:20 AM
#34
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Sgflyer: dun frighten me leh, its usually one of the things i would change on all my cars. I did not change the 8's cap because i saw its already 1.3.
Someguy: I do not understand your statement. Lower figures means richer fuel. 14.7 means 14.7 kg of air to 1 kg of fuel. So 13.5 actually means 13.5kg of air to 1 kg of fuel; more fuel. Yes, its really more beneficial to lean it out by taking away fuel from certain points.
emanage is a good piggyback. gives less problems and is tested with the 8. I had a safc which i wanted to fit to my 8 but i realise there were some compatibilty problems esp with revs and speed.
Other than that there is anything else to consider if you want to tweak with the ecu. Not considering replacements unless you are willingto lose alot of the cars features.
Someguy: I do not understand your statement. Lower figures means richer fuel. 14.7 means 14.7 kg of air to 1 kg of fuel. So 13.5 actually means 13.5kg of air to 1 kg of fuel; more fuel. Yes, its really more beneficial to lean it out by taking away fuel from certain points.
emanage is a good piggyback. gives less problems and is tested with the 8. I had a safc which i wanted to fit to my 8 but i realise there were some compatibilty problems esp with revs and speed.
Other than that there is anything else to consider if you want to tweak with the ecu. Not considering replacements unless you are willingto lose alot of the cars features.
03-13-2006, 10:24 AM
#35
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Simple explanation of how the radiator cap works can be found a few pages down from the link that Emperor posted - http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system7.htm
When you use a 1.3 bar cap, it increases the boiling point of the coolant, which does NOT mean you can SAFELY push the car to a higher operating temperature. You are just stalling the coolant from boiling. Using a 1.3 bar cap also means the cooling system is forced to operate at higher pressures which it may not be designed for thereby putting undue stress and potentially causing premature failure or leaks. When a 1.3 bar pressure cap opens, the coolant it releases to the reservior will be at a higher temperature. Although I know of people who are using 1.3 bar caps without problems, nobody knows the long term implications or maybe don't care because they will probably be rid of the car by then.
I'm very sure our 8s come with 0.9 bar caps as stock coz I just checked. Anyone with different stock pressure caps?
When you use a 1.3 bar cap, it increases the boiling point of the coolant, which does NOT mean you can SAFELY push the car to a higher operating temperature. You are just stalling the coolant from boiling. Using a 1.3 bar cap also means the cooling system is forced to operate at higher pressures which it may not be designed for thereby putting undue stress and potentially causing premature failure or leaks. When a 1.3 bar pressure cap opens, the coolant it releases to the reservior will be at a higher temperature. Although I know of people who are using 1.3 bar caps without problems, nobody knows the long term implications or maybe don't care because they will probably be rid of the car by then.
I'm very sure our 8s come with 0.9 bar caps as stock coz I just checked. Anyone with different stock pressure caps?
03-13-2006, 10:57 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by Emperor
Sgflyer: dun frighten me leh, its usually one of the things i would change on all my cars. I did not change the 8's cap because i saw its already 1.3.
03-13-2006, 01:23 PM
#37
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erm...i remember reading somewhere that for piston engine, it makes the most power between a ratio of 12.0:1 to 13.0:1 I dunno about rotary but 14.7 just means perfect combustion but not the most power.
03-13-2006, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by watoke
sqflyer bro, why is 1.3bar cap no different to our 0.9bar cap? Care to eleborate a bit?
Take a look at your stock radiator. The top part (Black) of it is actually made of plastic. The aluminium core and the plastic part are actually joint using clamps (I think). With the 1.3 radiator cap, no doubt it can withstand a higher pressure but not for the JOINT. They will eventually split or crack in long run.
As for aftermarket performance radiator, the joint are welded. Therefore, you can use a radiator cap of up to 3 bar or 5 bar or more if there's any available. (Joking)
Kenneth
03-13-2006, 07:34 PM
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Emperor - I simply ment that the stock is running so rich in the higher rpms that you would need to reduce the fueling to make the AF ratio 13.5
Emanage is an ok piggyback , i just don't seem to like it thats all. Pity there is not PnP ECU like the Apex'i PowerFC for the 8. may be with a bit more time things will change hopefully. Good things are being said about the XEDE from vishu and the handheld tuner another guy.
We just have to wait and see
Emanage is an ok piggyback , i just don't seem to like it thats all. Pity there is not PnP ECU like the Apex'i PowerFC for the 8. may be with a bit more time things will change hopefully. Good things are being said about the XEDE from vishu and the handheld tuner another guy.
We just have to wait and see
03-13-2006, 09:45 PM
#40
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Maybe i will check it again today. I was pretty sure it was 1.3 as i had a old racing 1.3bar cap which i wanted to use on my 8.
Drifter: yup, using to high a pressure cap can cuase problems especially after about 2-3 years when parts fatigue and weaken. Its is also very risky when you have damaged radiator fins and in may spring leaks.
Using high bar caps only stalls boiling like sqflyer said. You will feel its needed when you see your gauge hit 120 degrees which mine did once. This was when the car was relatively stock.
My temps used to hover at about 95-100 when i was using fully synthetic and now at approx 89-93 when i just changed to race oil. There really is a good difference in temps when you use better oils.
Drifter: yup, using to high a pressure cap can cuase problems especially after about 2-3 years when parts fatigue and weaken. Its is also very risky when you have damaged radiator fins and in may spring leaks.
Using high bar caps only stalls boiling like sqflyer said. You will feel its needed when you see your gauge hit 120 degrees which mine did once. This was when the car was relatively stock.
My temps used to hover at about 95-100 when i was using fully synthetic and now at approx 89-93 when i just changed to race oil. There really is a good difference in temps when you use better oils.
03-13-2006, 11:50 PM
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My temps used to hover at about 95-100 when i was using fully synthetic and now at approx 89-93 when i just changed to race oil. There really is a good difference in temps when you use better oils.
You're using a weight 50 / 60 race oil now?
03-14-2006, 01:08 AM
#42
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royal purple racing 41. No SAE standard but equivalent to 10w-40.
Good oil but i notice a slight increase in rough idle.
Sqflyer: Ya.. i made a mistake. Its a 0.9 bar cap. I mistakenly saw 13 psi as 1.3 bars. Considering the large capacity and plastic materials involves, could not have been 1.3bars. But doesn't this means a lower boiling point?
Good oil but i notice a slight increase in rough idle.
Sqflyer: Ya.. i made a mistake. Its a 0.9 bar cap. I mistakenly saw 13 psi as 1.3 bars. Considering the large capacity and plastic materials involves, could not have been 1.3bars. But doesn't this means a lower boiling point?
03-14-2006, 02:58 AM
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Dunno what's the boiling point on the 8 with the 0.9 bar cap, but next time better check the accuracy of your info before posting, else other readers might get the wrong info.
03-14-2006, 04:05 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by Emperor
I saw quite a few wrx with 7 or more gauges. Abit cluttered.
Most classic is a s15 that driven by a girl or lonh haired guy that has 6 pillars on both a pillars and quite a few more gauges on the centre.
Most classic is a s15 that driven by a girl or lonh haired guy that has 6 pillars on both a pillars and quite a few more gauges on the centre.
there must be at least a dozen gauges from left pillar, right pillar, on dash, under dash n near e visor
imagine e scan pattern when he's on the track
5% road n 95% gauges wahaha.........
03-14-2006, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sqflyer
Dunno what's the boiling point on the 8 with the 0.9 bar cap, but next time better check the accuracy of your info before posting, else other readers might get the wrong info.
I am guilty of what i dislike. Recently been making stupid mistakes; and i pride myself as a mistake free person.Previously i was concerned on the boiling point as i got quite a few shocks from the high water temps. And i was at a loss when i thought i cannot do much to increase the boiling point further when the cap is already 1.3bars (Now i know its not actually 1.3bars) But anyway, my temps are quite low now even under load on a hot day.
03-14-2006, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jetblast
ya i saw that black s15 with yellow stickers n giant wheel arches
there must be at least a dozen gauges from left pillar, right pillar, on dash, under dash n near e visor
imagine e scan pattern when he's on the track
5% road n 95% gauges wahaha.........
there must be at least a dozen gauges from left pillar, right pillar, on dash, under dash n near e visor
imagine e scan pattern when he's on the track
5% road n 95% gauges wahaha.........
Thats close to replicating a airplane short of actually flying.
03-15-2006, 08:48 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by jetblast
ya i saw that black s15 with yellow stickers n giant wheel arches
there must be at least a dozen gauges from left pillar, right pillar, on dash, under dash n near e visor
imagine e scan pattern when he's on the track
5% road n 95% gauges wahaha.........
there must be at least a dozen gauges from left pillar, right pillar, on dash, under dash n near e visor
imagine e scan pattern when he's on the track
5% road n 95% gauges wahaha.........
03-15-2006, 08:50 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by Emperor
Sqflyer: Ya.. i made a mistake. Its a 0.9 bar cap. I mistakenly saw 13 psi as 1.3 bars. Considering the large capacity and plastic materials involves, could not have been 1.3bars. But doesn't this means a lower boiling point?