kickerfox

I have yet to hear any input about it's design. I could show you comments about tons of rotary failures but at the same time I can find many owners with 100,000+ miles on them. This can be said for just about every engine ever made. Pick any engine and I'll find people having problems with it.

Find me design flaws based on your knowledge and your experience with engines.

9k, I'm already invested in the project, why say it will never be finished?

“A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” -Winston Churchill

Please stop the pissing contest already, will you?

bse50

They already told you that most engines burn oil almost by design and that fresh, different pistons may not solve the issue.

The only good thing is that it's an over square design really.

kickerfox

The only engines I know of that burn oil by design are 2-strokes and rotaries. A 4-stroke doesn't have any *engineered means* of oil consumption other then some oil in the crosshatch might get scrapped off by the compression rings but it's a miniscule amount. The Isuzu oil consumption problem is similar to coking in turbos. If the oil is allowed to pool and burn in the Isuzu oil ring, it causes the ring to stick preventing it from doing it's job. The BP engine (Miata 1.8L) and the SR20 (Nissan) also have this problem but it's more common in automatic cars. I see it more in Protégés then I do in Miatas. Why is that? Probably because Miata owners take better care of their cars then owners of Protégés... or Troopers.

Isuzu updated the piston (and I believe the oil ring was updated as well) and other diy builders drill extra holes. This seems to take care of the problem. I don't see this as an un-repairable flaw and no reason to overlook the other benefits this engine has to offer me.

If the Isuzu engine fails to meet my expectations, the modified drivetrain will already be built to accept just about any engine I want to put in it. I think my second choice would be an SR20DET but I prefer a v6.

Paco664

so?

its his car/money/time/etc.....

j9fd3s

yeah actually i think it would be, the rest of the world got a rotary turbo, but we complain too much in the US even in 1988, so we get a V6

Decat

I don't know if you care, but their are also terrible problems with the EGR system on 3.5L Isuzu's that never really was addressed, also the fuel pressure regulator and idle control valve consistently have problems for many of our members at VehiCross.info. AND once again I am pretty sure you don't care but you will not get better gas mileage. I consistently got far better gas mileage with the RX-8. And I don't think the weight savings and aerodynamic differences will make up for the vast differences here. I was consistently getting 18-22MPG in the RX-8 and since 2004 I have been getting 11-16MPG in the Isuzu.

I have delt with both engines more then most and I performed maintenance myself with the best supplies and it did not help either engine. They each have design problems and if I had the choice I would steer clear of both engines, and I am speaking from personal experience having both engines opened and inspecting the internals. I wish I could upload the picture of the cracked Isuzu piston head I have but I am on my phone. Everything in the engine (that had over 160k on it) looked perfect except that number 6 cylinder which the FPR was slowly dumping drops of fuel directly on top of the piston. There is no warning light for that. Haha. Good luck. You have picked 2 unreliable badly designed engines. I did too, and paid the price with time money and many headaches. Hope you have better luck, haha, but don't count on it.

Paco664

i used to own a isuzu rodeo with the v6.... only problem it ever gave me other than shitty mileage was the transmission died at ~110k miles......

just spent a hour reading reviews on edmunds and msn *( HERE )

and it scored a overall 8.1 out of 10.... *(for the 2002 model... the one i owned and i believe the one he is using)..

i don't understand the staunch opposition....


screw it kicker.... put a 4cyl diesel out of a toyota or isuzu in it....

kickerfox

Those two variables and rolling resistance play a huge roll in fuel consumption. The other is rolling resistance.

I'm going to refer back to my electric Geo to mention something interesting. When I bought the car to convert, it had old hard dry tires. To move 45mph on flat ground, it drew 30 amps. When I bought new tires that went up 33% to 40 amps. I had no idea tires would affect it that much.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

26 pages I love it.

kickerfox

Finally home.

As intended, the Solstice trans bolted right up to the Isuzu bell housing (R15x pattern). The face of the bell housing will now be past the firewall while maintaining the shifter location. It's much larger then the RX-8 trans but fits the car's tunnel fine. It's hard to see but the Solstice shift lever is just a shaft bolted to a nub on top of the trans. I'll grab a Solstice shift lever and see how that works out.

CRO8TIA

Kicker, I assume the starter bolts to that bulge on the left side of the solstice tranny, will the starter clear the floorpan/tunnel ?

kickerfox

That bulge is/was for the Isuzu slave cylinder and there is plenty of clearance. Isuzu used a pull-type clutch. It'll get blocked off because the Solstice uses a pusher-type clutch and the slave cylinder is inside the bell housing. The Isuzu starter mounts on the bottom rear drivers side of the block like a small block Chevy v8. Plenty of room.

CRO8TIA

Thanks man, stupid me, I should have checked your pics of the bell housing.

kickerfox

Looks like I may have been wrong about the clutch disc (for the Solstice). Napa is showing a 1-1/8 26-spline but Autozone showed a 1" 23-spline. I found some photos of a Solstice clutch and counted 26 splines so I picked up a '92 Firebird 305 10.4" 1-1/8 26-spline clutch set to verify. I'm so used to 8~9" 4 cylinder discs. This one looks huge in comparison. The Firebird pressure plate is beefy also but I won't know if that's any use until I have the Isuzu flywheel.

EDIT - It fits. Solstice is a 1-1/8" 26-spline.

Paco664

so where are you with the swap now??

?estimated start/completion?

kickerfox

I started it when the thread started. I've pulled the 8's engine/trans/wiring/ecu, sold parts, purchased parts, and I'm sourcing an Isuzu engine now. I found a few locally under $1g but haven't picked any up yet. I think I'm going to go with the 3.2L (Rodeo/Amigo) because of the shorter stroke and they are more common. As soon as I have an engine I'll pull it down to a long-block to check fitment and start on engine mounts. I'm anxious to see if I have the hood clearance I think I'll have.

These engines are externally balanced so I'm probably better off using the Isuzu flywheel/pressure-plate with the Firebird disc and pray the input shaft cover (front bearing retainer) from the Trooper trans will fit the Solstice trans (both are the Aisin AR5). If so, I can use the Isuzu pull-type throw-out bearing and fork. If not, I'll have to dig hard for a push-type pressure-plate to fit the Isuzu flywheel. That's a long shot though.

kickerfox

I decided on the 3.2L. The shorter stroke might net me a few extra RPM and the turbos I have were from a 3.0L Nissan so they may be better suited to the 3.2L then the 3.5L. The 3.2 is easier to find when I put a rod through the block on this one. =)

Bellhousing___$100 (2000 Trooper)
Trans________$500 (2008 Solstice)
Engine w/accs_$500 (2000 Passport)
Flywheel______$35 (2000 Trooper)
ECU__________$35 ('99 Amigo 3.2L manual)

Total to date___$1170

Not bad considering there's a new transmission in that price. I'm pretty sure I can finish this off for $2000~2500.

Paco664

hmm... the plot thickens...

kickerfox

And the wallet thins. Actually I got $450 for my old engine block and header so I'm really only out $720. I still have a lot of parts left plus the steering rack and 6-spd to sell.

I've reached my photo limit so I guess I can't post any more photos of the project. Just when it got going right? Maybe I can resize some of the other pics.

Now that I have the engine and car side by side it's looking great. The engine I bought has been apart before. The oil pump, water pump, and heads all look newer then the block. Maybe it was rebuilt once. It uses MLS head gaskets also. Having measured, I seem to have plenty of clearance for custom shorty headers or turbo manifolds. This engine's flex-plate doesn't have any balance on it nor are the flywheel bolts indexed. It may be internally balanced after all. Maybe I can call a crank shop and find out.

For the life of me I can't find the damn legs to my engine hoist! >.<

Paco664

get a photobucket account...

CRO8TIA

Good stuff man, and thanks for this "swap" thread, reading this has given me motivation, today I test fitted the engine and trans, the oil pan fouls the cross member so I removed it and made a new cross member that bolts in, the oil pan is cast Alloy, yes, I could of cut and shut it, but my Alloy Tig skills aren't that pretty, keep us posted on your progress please.

kickerfox

I forgot I had one.


Awesum. Can't wait to hear your progress as well.

kickerfox

This is what I was trying to upload. I just have it stripped down. As soon as I find my hoist legs, or borrow a hoist, I'll do a test fit.

kickerfox

Doing the test fit now. I haven't moved the steering rack or sway bar yet and the crank pulley was removed in order to see how low it would sit in the engine bay. The front of the pan is resting on the sub-frame. The majority of the engine's mass is behind the front axle. It still needs to come forward and tip back in order to drop into place but the steering rack needs to be moved to do that. That's why the back of the engine is sitting so high.

The pan will have ground clearance and there's so much room above the engine the stock manifold might fit. I still want to make my own though.

kickerfox

Here's a few more pics. The pan has 5/8" ribs for cooling which are resting on a 1/2" plywood on the sub-frame. I'll be cutting them off. The front of the engine still has to come down ~1". The shot of the side of the car shows it's sitting pretty high. There's still probably 75~100lbs of stuff that still needs to go in. The oil coolers and lines are 28lbs fwiw. They were not needed and removed.

Shifter location was a bulls-eye! I couldn't have planed it better...wait...I did plan it. At least the verification of fitment is done. Now I have a lot of fabricating to do.

pic 1 - Accessories in place. Looks like I get to keep my air conditioning.
pic 2 - That Solstice trans makes this engine look small.
pic 3 - Front of engine 1" higher then final but it tucked in there pretty well. Lots of room for intake.
pic 4 - Holy wheel-well batman. Front of engine still 1" higher then final.
pic 5 - Shifter location.