'08 STi vs. '08 Evolution X
#26
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Found a couple road test reviews for the new STi...
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...mpreza_wrx_sti
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do....photopanel..3
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...mpreza_wrx_sti
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do....photopanel..3
#27
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#28
I love hatchbacks. The STI hatch is right up my alley as a daily driver, but I wouldn't be able to afford one anytime soon unless I unloaded both my Speed 6 and S2000 for it, which is not happening. It's a few years too late, which sucks, because I'd love to own one as a daily, and I'd likely never sell it.
The new STI coming out is great for everyone, and I firmly believe the fact that it's been softened up is a good thing. I just don't get raw economy sedans and hatchbacks, but nonetheless I loved my STI when driving it, until I got out of car and looked at it, and realized, this ain't a sports car, it's a cheap looking economy sedan.
I admired my 04 STI for it's rawness, but at the end of the day it was a 4 door sedan with a that lacked any real style and refinement, and people I know didn't like being passengers in.
To each his own, but I believe RAW should go back to sports cars. I guess I could just never fully get into a 4 door sedan as a fun car. I tried though.
Why the hell didn't they just make the STI a 2 door sports coupe in the beginning?
The new STI coming out is great for everyone, and I firmly believe the fact that it's been softened up is a good thing. I just don't get raw economy sedans and hatchbacks, but nonetheless I loved my STI when driving it, until I got out of car and looked at it, and realized, this ain't a sports car, it's a cheap looking economy sedan.
I admired my 04 STI for it's rawness, but at the end of the day it was a 4 door sedan with a that lacked any real style and refinement, and people I know didn't like being passengers in.
To each his own, but I believe RAW should go back to sports cars. I guess I could just never fully get into a 4 door sedan as a fun car. I tried though.
Why the hell didn't they just make the STI a 2 door sports coupe in the beginning?
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Viking, I hear what you're saying but the other side of the argument is pretty compelling too. The other side of the coin says yeah...sure...we'd all love to have sexy high performance coupes but the reality is that many of us with families NEED the practicality, leg room, head room and cargo space of a 4 door sedan. It is a "need to have" when we go car shopping. Cars like the STi and Evo allow guys like that to incorporate an extra large portion of "nice to have" into their next car purchase. The thinking being, if I'm gonna be stuck with a family sedan I might as well find the funnest one I can.
That being said, I don't think either of these cars are bad looking. The new Lancer is a pretty decent looking car, even if the Audi-esque front end on the Evo X is not really my favorite look. The base model Impreza is pretty bland but the STi hatch, although not traditionally sexy, looks aggressive to me in a very WRC type of way.
That being said, I don't think either of these cars are bad looking. The new Lancer is a pretty decent looking car, even if the Audi-esque front end on the Evo X is not really my favorite look. The base model Impreza is pretty bland but the STi hatch, although not traditionally sexy, looks aggressive to me in a very WRC type of way.
#30
Viking, I hear what you're saying but the other side of the argument is pretty compelling too. The other side of the coin says yeah...sure...we'd all love to have sexy high performance coupes but the reality is that many of us with families NEED the practicality, leg room, head room and cargo space of a 4 door sedan. It is a "need to have" when we go car shopping. Cars like the STi and Evo allow guys like that to incorporate an extra large portion of "nice to have" into their next car purchase. The thinking being, if I'm gonna be stuck with a family sedan I might as well find the funnest one I can.
That being said, I don't think either of these cars are bad looking. The new Lancer is a pretty decent looking car, even if the Audi-esque front end on the Evo X is not really my favorite look. The base model Impreza is pretty bland but the STi hatch, although not traditionally sexy, looks aggressive to me in a very WRC type of way.
That being said, I don't think either of these cars are bad looking. The new Lancer is a pretty decent looking car, even if the Audi-esque front end on the Evo X is not really my favorite look. The base model Impreza is pretty bland but the STi hatch, although not traditionally sexy, looks aggressive to me in a very WRC type of way.
The attempt to turn them into raw sports cars just didn't cut it with me. I'm glad they are turning more into utility cars with high performance, better looks, and some luxury, and that a family can buy as a year round machine for both fun and utility.
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I've been a bit misinterpreted. My point was based on people on this thread complaining about how the rawness is being compromized and the cars are getting softer for more friendly use. I think it's 100% necessary, because these are economy sedans, not sports cars. Great that they started off raw and untamed, but they MUST evolutionize into some luxury and refinement aspects. I could barely hear myself think in my 04 STI it was so loud. If it were my pure weekend FAIR WEATHER ONLY summer car, then who cares. When it's a daily driver for lets say a family with kids, it's gotta get softened up.
The attempt to turn them into raw sports cars just didn't cut it with me. I'm glad they are turning more into utility cars with high performance, better looks, and some luxury, and that a family can buy as a year round machine for both fun and utility.
The attempt to turn them into raw sports cars just didn't cut it with me. I'm glad they are turning more into utility cars with high performance, better looks, and some luxury, and that a family can buy as a year round machine for both fun and utility.
The STI and Evo were the last of the Homologation specials and their rawness was a big part of what made them special and so coveted by enthusiasts. People who want a "family funster" have plenty of other cars to chose from and I see no reason to dumb down two of the most exhilerating and and fun to drive cars on the road. That said, both cars will probably sell better than they have in the past, but these cars were never intended to have big sales numbers, they were purpose built niche cars.
#32
i pwn therefore i am
The STI and Evo were the last of the Homologation specials and their rawness was a big part of what made them special and so coveted by enthusiasts. People who want a "family funster" have plenty of other cars to chose from and I see no reason to dumb down two of the most exhilerating and and fun to drive cars on the road. That said, both cars will probably sell better than they have in the past, but these cars were never intended to have big sales numbers, they were purpose built niche cars.
I know for the earlier Evo fans the new direction might be a big let down. But I don't think there are any cars out there that even come close to what I'm looking for and I'm glad to see Mitsubishi take a stab at it.
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I disagree that the Evo is being turned into a "family funster". It may not be as raw as it used to be, but it's by no means a MS6 or Dodge Magnum or something like that. I for one, like where these cars are going because there aren't any cars out right now that really interest me. I don't want a car that's just fun on the track (MX-5 or S2000). I'd rather not have a car that's got no practicality (350Z). I definitely don't want a giant boat of a car (GTO, Magnum, Charger, MS6). I want a car that goes fast in a straight line and around corners, gets me solid gas mileage, isn't FWD, has a backseat and trunk, and is relatively easy to drive. The RX-8 was very close for me, but not quite. The new Evo is by far the closest thing to what I'm going for (theoretically).
I know for the earlier Evo fans the new direction might be a big let down. But I don't think there are any cars out there that even come close to what I'm looking for and I'm glad to see Mitsubishi take a stab at it.
I know for the earlier Evo fans the new direction might be a big let down. But I don't think there are any cars out there that even come close to what I'm looking for and I'm glad to see Mitsubishi take a stab at it.
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I disagree that the Evo is being turned into a "family funster". It may not be as raw as it used to be, but it's by no means a MS6 or Dodge Magnum or something like that. I for one, like where these cars are going because there aren't any cars out right now that really interest me. I don't want a car that's just fun on the track (MX-5 or S2000). I'd rather not have a car that's got no practicality (350Z). I definitely don't want a giant boat of a car (GTO, Magnum, Charger, MS6). I want a car that goes fast in a straight line and around corners, gets me solid gas mileage, isn't FWD, has a backseat and trunk, and is relatively easy to drive. The RX-8 was very close for me, but not quite. The new Evo is by far the closest thing to what I'm going for (theoretically).
I know for the earlier Evo fans the new direction might be a big let down. But I don't think there are any cars out there that even come close to what I'm looking for and I'm glad to see Mitsubishi take a stab at it.
I know for the earlier Evo fans the new direction might be a big let down. But I don't think there are any cars out there that even come close to what I'm looking for and I'm glad to see Mitsubishi take a stab at it.
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Found a video of the new STI up close and in person...
http://www.subie.tv/index.php/video/...evving_sounds/
http://www.subie.tv/index.php/video/...evving_sounds/
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I personally don't understand the hateration going on about these cars. Oooooh, they are .23598324 seconds slower on some track on different days that none of us will ever drive on. Who gives a flip. Is it fun to drive? Does it handle well? Does it stop well? These are the things that matter at the end of the day. I'm so sick and tired of the magazine/internet racing going on. Furthermore,most people that buy these cars seem to screw them up by 'modding' them anyway, so why are they so concerned that it's softer/slower/whatever from the factory?
#37
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I don't remember ever there was such a rivalry amongst japanese automotive brand. It's fun to read and funner to own. But the funnest doing Scandinavian flicks at an empty parking lot after a snow storm. Ahh... I remember my younger days.
#39
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Blah, forgive me for not reading through the entire thread, but between the pudgy new Evo and the "sunday driver" STi, I'm pretty disappointed with this round of the Evo/STi battle.
The STi won't appeal to many people here in the US, mostly because it's a hatch. I'm actually a fan of hatches (I've owned 2), but I still think the design of the STi just has a terrible case of the blahs. I think if any interest is generated in the new STi, it will only come if it shows a marked performance advantage over the Evo X.
The Evo is the car I had my money on this round, and even that has let me down. It's great if it's faster around the track even with its handicap, but I think they're taking a big step backwards with such a large weight gain. However, I think it's going to appeal to many more people than the STi. Your average "Joe Carbuyer" isn't going to care about some added weight. He'll see that there's no annoying clutch pedal, it's got more ammenities, and it's got a sportier look than the frumpy STi.
If I were currently in the market, I'd wait until they redesign the STi and put the Evo on a diet.
Edit: Just watched that video, and seeing the STi in darkness made me realize that it has some serious potential to be a good looking car, they just completely failed with the front and rear end designs. If they added a more aggressive and less "happy" front end, and ditched the RX330 tails (hell, they'd probably look fine if they were just RED), they'd probably have quite a nice looking car.
The STi won't appeal to many people here in the US, mostly because it's a hatch. I'm actually a fan of hatches (I've owned 2), but I still think the design of the STi just has a terrible case of the blahs. I think if any interest is generated in the new STi, it will only come if it shows a marked performance advantage over the Evo X.
The Evo is the car I had my money on this round, and even that has let me down. It's great if it's faster around the track even with its handicap, but I think they're taking a big step backwards with such a large weight gain. However, I think it's going to appeal to many more people than the STi. Your average "Joe Carbuyer" isn't going to care about some added weight. He'll see that there's no annoying clutch pedal, it's got more ammenities, and it's got a sportier look than the frumpy STi.
If I were currently in the market, I'd wait until they redesign the STi and put the Evo on a diet.
Edit: Just watched that video, and seeing the STi in darkness made me realize that it has some serious potential to be a good looking car, they just completely failed with the front and rear end designs. If they added a more aggressive and less "happy" front end, and ditched the RX330 tails (hell, they'd probably look fine if they were just RED), they'd probably have quite a nice looking car.
Last edited by Rhawb; 12-11-2007 at 09:37 AM.
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Here's a comparison Motortrend did of the USDM Evo X and the USDM Evo IX...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cp13KGEsok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cp13KGEsok
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ive always though of this segment as the raw, exciting no compromise fun cars..
and ive favored the Evo over the STI over the past 2 iterations because of its quicker response and stiffer suspension
im not sure I like the new Evo X because its getting closer to the sport coupes, Id probably rather just get a 335i instead. If the new STI retains more crisp handling and response, Id probably favor the STI this time around. but id like to drive both first before i make any judgement.
and ive favored the Evo over the STI over the past 2 iterations because of its quicker response and stiffer suspension
im not sure I like the new Evo X because its getting closer to the sport coupes, Id probably rather just get a 335i instead. If the new STI retains more crisp handling and response, Id probably favor the STI this time around. but id like to drive both first before i make any judgement.
Last edited by playdoh43; 12-11-2007 at 01:35 PM.
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I personally don't understand the hateration going on about these cars. Oooooh, they are .23598324 seconds slower on some track on different days that none of us will ever drive on. Who gives a flip. Is it fun to drive? Does it handle well? Does it stop well? These are the things that matter at the end of the day. I'm so sick and tired of the magazine/internet racing going on. Furthermore,most people that buy these cars seem to screw them up by 'modding' them anyway, so why are they so concerned that it's softer/slower/whatever from the factory?
#43
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^ every current gen. car owners lament about the upcoming replacement model being not as good. Heard that about the infamous air-cooled 911 owners on the then new 996 model. Even the NA Miata folks were whining about the NB and later NC. It's evolution of a product (how appropriate). The EVO cannot keep staying as a 80s plastic contraption forever. It has to move on with times since even the latest Hyundai Accent feels more held together than the current EVO.
If ultimate driving pleasure is required, an AWD car based on a sedan platform is not the way to go anways. Get a proper front-engine RWD sportscar like the Z3 M Coupe or a 993 S...
If ultimate driving pleasure is required, an AWD car based on a sedan platform is not the way to go anways. Get a proper front-engine RWD sportscar like the Z3 M Coupe or a 993 S...
#44
I agree with Ike on this one. There are other options in the automotive world to chose from if you want a luxury sports car. A company should stick to their formula that made them sell cars so well. It is not the best idea to alienate their loyal costumers in order to gain sales.
Yea, it can't but it does not mean it has to be numbed down to a glove wearing pansy. Refinement is one issue but destroying the nature that made the EVO so special is another.
Isn't the EVO suppose to be a everyday reiteration of a rally car? The point of the EVO is not to be the "ultimate driving pleasure" but to the formula EVO has always been, a turbocharged sedan that is hell of a lot of fun.
Isn't the EVO suppose to be a everyday reiteration of a rally car? The point of the EVO is not to be the "ultimate driving pleasure" but to the formula EVO has always been, a turbocharged sedan that is hell of a lot of fun.
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^ every current gen. car owners lament about the upcoming replacement model being not as good. Heard that about the infamous air-cooled 911 owners on the then new 996 model. Even the NA Miata folks were whining about the NB and later NC. It's evolution of a product (how appropriate). The EVO cannot keep staying as a 80s plastic contraption forever. It has to move on with times since even the latest Hyundai Accent feels more held together than the current EVO.
If ultimate driving pleasure is required, an AWD car based on a sedan platform is not the way to go anways. Get a proper front-engine RWD sportscar like the Z3 M Coupe or a 993 S...
If ultimate driving pleasure is required, an AWD car based on a sedan platform is not the way to go anways. Get a proper front-engine RWD sportscar like the Z3 M Coupe or a 993 S...
#46
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The Subaru P1 was faster than the Carrera S on a country road too. And able to negotiate harsh winters. Like an EVO they are great point and squirt cars but I prefer my sports cars classically front-engine RWD format that works with me without the glut of electronic doodads to compensate for a compromised platform to begin with. Put more seat time in a Z3 M Coupe or the 911 you claimed to have driven and you just may understand the beauty of a properly sorted sports car.
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The Subaru P1 was faster than the Carrera S on a country road too. And able to negotiate harsh winters. Like an EVO they are great point and squirt cars but I prefer my sports cars classically front-engine RWD format that works with me without the glut of electronic doodads to compensate for a compromised platform to begin with. Put more seat time in a Z3 M Coupe or the 911 you claimed to have driven and you just may understand the beauty of a properly sorted sports car.
#49
Here's a test from Sports Car International, one of the few good car mags left. They concur with what others have said: Faster, but less furious.
http://www.sci-mag.com/art1/art1p1.html
Happens to a lot of cars, though. The design gets "refined" (as some call it) and loses it's personality with each redesign. These cars have never been my cup of tea, but they certainly have added a lot to the enthusiast market.
http://www.sci-mag.com/art1/art1p1.html
Happens to a lot of cars, though. The design gets "refined" (as some call it) and loses it's personality with each redesign. These cars have never been my cup of tea, but they certainly have added a lot to the enthusiast market.
#50
i pwn therefore i am
Does anyone else in this thread besides Ike even own an Evo? If not, then why all the lament about the new direction they're taking? Maybe Mitsubishi actually wants to sell cars rather than just impress random forum goers. They may alienate some people, but they will gain many fans. Pretty much the EXACT same thing that happened with the RX-7 and the RX-8.
Oh well, maybe all this magazine racing nonsense will help drive the demand for the Evo X down so I can get mine for a reasonable price. Then I can take my new fancy luxury car and see if I can control the immense body roll and overcome the numb steering to beat the living snot out of my friend's RX-8 on a local track. I'll be crossing my fingers!