blizz81

Well, I think even though subaru has had a presence stateside for a while (ahh, the good ol' early 80s GL - I think? - that pops used to drive for a while), they don't quite have the reputation for service and reliability that say...Acura has as far as the TL goes. The initial stateside launch of the WRX didn't really help that with what I heard of tranny problems. Although that's apparently been dealt with, it can leave a lingering effect when that's the first factory turbo machine you roll out among more to come.

And there's possible negatives in the minds of buyers for cars w/factory-equipped turbos, or perhaps the feel of AWD. But in the end it's hard to take any steam away from the turbo 05 legacy GT, with how affordable it will most likely be.

Supercharger

TOKYO -- The Subaru Legacy has won one of Japan's two Car of the Year awards for 2003-04, beating the Toyota Prius, Mazda RX-8, Mazda Atenza/Mazda6 and Honda Odyssey.

The revamped Legacy, the fourth generation of Subaru's core model, garnered 368 points to 322 for the Prius and 238 for the RX-8.

Skyline Maniac

If only this car is backed by a more reputable company.....

9-K Rever

The new Legacy is is the same weight as the WRX due to lots of aluminum and titanium used during its construction. We are talking about a car that is larger than the previous model and weighs around 3000lbs. The Japanese turbo model makes 280 hp with a Mitsubishi twin scroll turbo. The car has already beaten the Audi RS6 on the track (Best Motoring) and the american model will have the STI's 2.5 liter engine on the turbo model.

Schneegz

Anybody else think it ironic that Subaru uses Mitsubishi turbos?

Ike

If that were actually true maybe we would...

Ike

I believe Subaru has increased their market share more than Toyota, Honda, Nissan or any other establised Japanese auto manufacturer in recent years. Their presence is stronger than ever and seems to have a very bright future. The tranny problem on the WRX, while somewhat troubling, has not seemed to hurt Subaru sales. Lastly Subaru has been making turbo charged engines and AWD cars for many years.

Here's a little history lesson for you.

1917 Chikuhei Nakajima establishes Aircraft Research Laboratory (ARL),
Japan’s first private aircraft manufacturer, predecessor to FHI.

1931 ARL reorganized as Nakajima Aircraft Ltd.

1945 Nakamima Aircraft renamed Fuji Sangyo Co., Ltd. to make other
industrial equipment

1950 Fuji Sangyo splits into 12 companies

1953 Fuji Heavy Industries is established

1955 5 companies legally merged into FHI

1957 FHI completes first Japanese jet plane (T-1)

1958 FHI introduces the Subaru 360, a 4-passenger car, marking the beginning
of Japan’s era of motorization

1961 Prototype YS-11 twin turbo-prop airliner introduced

1971 Subaru Loyale introduced

1972 FHI introduces the world’s first mass-produced 4-wheel-drive passenger car

1975 Subaru 4WD Sedan makes debut. Subaru 1600 becomes the first car to clear
stringent Japanese 1978 emission standards

1977 Exports of Subaru Brat introduced to the U.S.

1983 Exports of Subaru Justy commence

1985 Subaru XT6 makes a sensational debut, demonstrating ultra-refined
aerodynamics and an advanced 4WD mechanism (available with a turbo)

1986 Subaru wins Safari Rally

1988 Subaru Legacy sets 100,000 km speed/endurance record averaging 138.3 mph
over 18 ½ days

1990 Legacy wins Sedan Of The Year, awarded by AJAC (Automobile Journalists
Association of Canada); Legacy wagons finish 1-2 in the Alaskan Alcan Rally; Subaru Legacy becomes the first non-modified car ever to win the Safari Rally, winning its class and finishing 8th overall

1990 SVX is launched to critical acclaim
1991 Legacy Turbo win AJAC Sedan Of The Year; Subaru introduces the SVX. 1993
Subaru Impreza introduced; Legacy wins its first-ever World Rally Championship event, the Rally of New Zealand; remodeled Legacy establishes world speed record for station wagons

1995 Subaru captures the Manufactures’ and Drivers’ titles in the World Rally
Championship

1996 Subaru captures second consecutive Manufacturers’ title in WRC

1998 New Subaru Station Wagon sets new world speed record for station wagons

2000 60 Month sales record for month over month increases

(some history left out due for the sake of not boring you more than you already are :p)

Ike

mikeb

i thought you were banned

RX8-TX

My guess is that it's over. Can we give it a rest now?

9-K Rever

I just wish he would look up the turbo used in the 05 Legacy ..It was designed by Mitsubishi.

9-K Rever

2005 Subaru Legacy

The bread-and-butter cars get a huge bump in horsepower.
BY STEVE SPENCE
September 2003


Those of us who watch too much video entertainment have come to think of Subaru as the Gene Hackman of the auto world: handicapped by a face only a mother could love, seeking a broader audience but mostly getting cultlike idolization from eccentrics who live in cabins. Still, whenever Hackman is called on to perform, under any conditions, it's nothing but aces.





The only glamour puss ever seen exiting a Subaru assembly line was the SVX, an exotic GT coupe in the 200-hp range that suffered through four unloved years in the first half of the 1990s. Add it all up, and total sales never rose above five digits. Maybe some folks just didn't want a car whose windows appeared to have weld seams running through the middle of them. Being eccentric ourselves, we of course loved it. Hearing this recently, a Subaru executive responded, “Everyone loved the SVX as soon as we discontinued it.”

So now the Legacy, which has competed as a sober-faced all-wheel-drive sedan and wagon and carried the burden of being the corporate flagship since it was introduced in 1989, has been given leading-man looks and some GT firepower that the SVX would have, well, died for.

The Legacy seen here was introduced to the Japanese market last June, but it won't show up on these shores until May or June 2004, as a 2005 model. If you're used to the nondescript fleet-car look of past Legacy sedans, and the droll, slab-sided ordinariness of the wagon line (the Outback has been separated from the herd and is now a stand-alone model, or maybe even a division), the new cars won't be recognizable as Subarus. Design homage appears to have been paid to the Europeans, particularly BMW in the tail treatment and Audi in the profile of the sedan. The brass at Subaru wanted this car to look slick inside and out. It should be, a top executive said, “a pleasure to be in, even if you aren't going anywhere.” Exterior chrome has been reduced to a minimum, appearing only on the grille and tail. It's sharp.

The length of the sedan has been pared by two inches and the wagon by three, while the wheelbase has grown an inch to 105.1. The numbers show that interior head- and legroom are up slightly. Both models have generous room for four, although it's a tight fit for three in back. It certainly is comfy inside, and top-quality materials such as the nylon headliner, the pliable grained dash, and the patterned pewter trim add a substantial helping of style. Open the wagon's rear door, and there's a switch that powers the rear seatbacks up or down.

To its credit, Subaru has lopped off 200 pounds by its use of aluminum in the hood, bumpers, and sunroof pieces, bringing the spread for both models to 3000 to 3200 pounds. The top-of-the-line performance model in Japan has a DOHC 2.0-liter turbocharged engine that puts out a raucous 280 horsepower—a quantum leap of 115 over the previous Legacy's 165-hp engine sold here—that is mated to either a five-speed automatic or five-speed manual, the latter featuring short throws and no shifting through oatmeal. (Interestingly, in Japan the turbo model with an automatic loses 20 horsepower, to 260.) For the U.S. market, that four-cylinder horizontally opposed engine that mounts low in the chassis will likely be a reworked version of the 2.5-liter engine now working in the Forester and current Legacy. The base model should carry the SOHC engine that won't produce too much over the current 165-hp output, with a four-speed automatic or five-speed manual gearbox. The U.S.-market 250-hp turbo, at 2.5 liters in displacement, is down about 30 horsepower from the Japanese-market 2.0-liter turbo at 280 hp. The optional engine will be a naturally aspirated 3.0-liter flat-six, also making 250 horses, a reworking of the six currently employed in the Outback. The turbo model has a paddle-shifting option on the five-speed automatic and should come with 17-inch wheels mounted on rubber measuring 215/45, with 16-inchers on the base cars.

We spent a day at Fuji Raceway trying to make these cars cry. The turbo model claims a 0-to-62-mph time of 5.8 seconds, and it gets there with a vibrant, singing exhaust note. It has great balance, steering that is light and progressive, and an absence of oversteer owing to the all-wheel drive. It was great fun to toss around. It should cause concern for a lot of pricier cars, and we think the U.S. car's power sacrifice shouldn't dissuade anyone. With any luck, the turbo car should sell in the $27,000-to-$29,000 range, with the blown wagon going for $3000 more.

Manufacturer: Fuji Heavy Industries, Limited, Tokyo, Japan
Vehicle type: front-engine, 4-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan or 5-door wagon
Estimated base price: $25,000
Engines: SOHC 16-valve 2.5-liter flat-4, 165 hp (est); turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 16-valve 2.5-liter flat- 4, 250 hp (est); DOHC 24-valve 3.0-liter flat-6, 250 hp
Transmissions: 5-speed manual, 4-speed and 5-speed autos with manumatic shifting
Wheelbase: 105.1 in
Length: 182.5-184.3 in
Curb weight: 3000-3200 lb

Ike

The USDM Legacy will most likely use the VF39 (the same turbo in the STi) which is an IHI turbo. However Subaru does use turbo's from MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) in other applications such as the regular WRX (I should have clarified this in my original post that they do use them at times but not in the new Legacy and not exclusively)). Just about every Japanese car manufacturer deals with many suppliers and with the size of some corporations often car manufacturers buy parts from subsidiaries of their competitors.

Ike

9-K Rever

It took me forever to find some specs in English for you. Didn't know if you could read Japanese or not. But here ya go. Check this site out www.apexjapan.com

But read on, and find that the Turbo was designed by Mitsubishi for the 05 Legacy.

A strong body needs a strong heart:
Now that Subaru has finally dealt with the brakes, we need an improved pump to get things on the boil and the engineers have produced a choice one this time. The heavy, complex and oft misunderstood twin turbo is retired to make way for a new generation engine that takes advantage of variable valve timing on both inlet and exhaust sides (a first for Subaru) and a 4-2 exhaust manifold connecting cylinders across the engine feeding a twin scroll turbocharger. Naturally, when off boost, it drives like any normally aspirated 2 litre engine, but give it just a touch of throttle, get it to say, 1800rpm and you can feel things getting quick as the titanium turbo rapidly starts to push more air into the engine. Getting down to details, there was much testing done by the engineers at Subaru to get to their final turbo specs, and the result is that the turbo on the manual versions is made by Mistubishi and is designed to punch all the way to 280ps. Where as the automatic gets an IHI unit tuned specifically for this 260ps application. By 2400rpm maximum torque is reached and it fairly screams from there to the redline, but useful urge is never far away even when off boost. It doesn't matter whether you are in either of the GT spec Bs or the normal GTs, they all go like the wind as a result of the pedal meeting the floor, response is nothing short of excellent. However, as you would expect, the short geared, 18 inch wheel wearing GT spec B is just a bit more urgent about it all, and definitely feels quicker as a result.

Ike

The twin scroll turbo is not being used in the USDM model, rumor has it the IHI is.

Schneegz

Just a little hint. When you try to be a smartass and you are, in fact, wrong, you come off looking like a dumbass.
So what, Dumbass? I never said Subaru uses Mitsu turbos exclusively. I said it was ironic that Subaru, archrival of Mitsubishi in the WRC, uses Mitsu turbos AT ALL. Dumbass.

Ike

My statement came off wrong, subaru is not using a Mitsubishi turbo in the car we are discussing in this thread which is all I meant but it didn't come off that way and for that I appologize. I even clarified it, but you felt the need to attack me anyhow.
You need to grow up little man the only one that really looks like a dumbass is the one that feels the need to make pety insults. Mitsubishi didn't even have a WRC car this year, pretty tough to be archrivals when only one competed in the WRC this year, isn't it?

9-K Rever

The turbo application has not been decided for the USDM model. There is only speculation at this point. A full USDM break down has not been offered at this point. But, the fact that you did not know the turbo in the JDM 05 Legacy was designed by Mitsubishi is understandable..just do more reading before you make statements like you did.

Ike

I know what turbo they used in the JDM model and I know it was a mitsubishi turbo (FYI it's not an 05 model), and it has already been ruled out in the USDM model. I'll be pretty surprised if it's not the VF39, but I suppose they could end up with a TD04. Lets just call a truce since we misunderstood one another and we're both right and wrong. We're just speculating at this point anyhow.

9-K Rever

Sure...no prob..its all good...nothing wrong with a good debate. Truce.

9-K Rever

Its just I love the Legacy..when I was in Japan I got to drive a B-4 twin turbo and a N/A 3.0 and they were a ball..the vally of death in the twin turbo wasn't cool..thats why I was jumping up and down when I heard it got a twin scroller. I will have a black 05 Legacy next to my black RX8 when it comes out. I will post pics at that time. I will post a pick of my RX8 and my 2.5 GT..tell me what ya think.