PhotoMunkey

The Civic looks like a soap-bar with windows. Virtually identical profile forwards or backwards. I was as SEMA the year they debuted and still remain unimpressed with it. I think a 1992 Civic Si hatchback will hand a new Civic Si it's *** in a straight line or on a track.

That said, the new GTI looks remarkably like the 1992 Civic Si, with a bit of German flair and fashion. I was sorely tempted to try one, but, in the end, the appearance, brakes, handling, and ultra-smooth engine won me over to the rotary camp. Imagine the fun I've had discovering that virtually every weight-saving change I make to the chassis makes the car incrementally faster.

To everyone who's pointed out the "lightening lap" (spelling error intentional), please note that the EVO and 350Z Track are both wearing superior tires to the STOCK RX-8 tires. Evos wear no-joke tires right from the get-go. Experts have opined that tires can make a 4 second per lap difference on a typical road course, depending on the configuration. Also note that the Evo's tires are 235 width front and rear, and the 350Z Track carries at least a 265 rear and a 235 or 245 front. Apples to oranges folks.

If my rear springs arrive in time this weekend, I'm going to try to run my RX-8 out at Willow Springs this coming weekend. Against a new, modded BMW 335i no less! We'll see how well it works...

BTW-try to get a new Civic to look THIS good! Not possible.

PoorCollegeKid

Not stock for stock it won't, and probably not even when modified, assuming equal mods, unless you do an engine swap. There's only so much that a little 125hp 1.6L engine can do, even in a chassis 500-600 lbs lighter than the new Si. Agree with you on the profile, though. The car isn't bad looking from the front or rear, but the coupe's side profile looks a little strange.

eviltwinkie

It just sucks...can this thread die now? haaa

CarAndDriver

The wing is UGLY.

Zio

Seriously, I don't get why people put those ugly *** wings on cars that don't need it.

BlueEyes

or ugly appearance kits which look like someone forgot to paint them?

Rhawb

Well, just drove the Mazdaspeed 3. SWEET JEEBUS! It felt like I was going WOT on that thing no matter what I did! At first it's a bit underwhelming, but as soon as that though even begins to materialize in your head, you're knocked back, surprised, trying to hold on to the wheel. I know I would get used to the power delivery and all pretty quickly and I would actually be able to drive it like it WASN'T some untamed animal, but good lord, that first drive was almost scary!

I tried to get some cornering in, but we mostly had it on a straight main road - from what I could experience in the few low speed, tight turns we made at red lights, it seems to handle pretty well. I stood on it a few times coming out of the corners and it seemed to handle about as well as an FWD car with too much power can possibly handle.

Either way, I want one BADLY! The interior leaves a bit to be desired, but I didn't have a lot of time to check it out since was trying too hard to keep the car outside of "insane acceleration" mode - that thing will knock you back even at half throttle, it's nuts. I'm in love!

dillsrotary

^^i love the mazdaspeed seats in them.

Japan8

Same thing here when I was looking in December.

The motor pulls pretty nicely at all rpms, and the interior is nicely done... especially with pkg 2 (leather). I wouldn't mind having one in my driveway as the wife's car. But I love my AWD + the difference in power sold me on my MS6. If I couldn't get the deal I did though... it might have been a GTI or MS3 instead.

playdoh43

hey jap, if you have the info handy, whats the final drive gear ratio for ms6?

Japan8

US SPEC

1st 3.538
2nd 2.238
3rd 1.535
4th 1.171
5th 1.085
6th 0.853
Reverse 3.831
Final Drive 3.941/3.350

JAPAN SPEC

1st 3.538
2nd 2.238
3rd 1.535
4th 1.171
5th 1.085
6th 0.853
Reverse 3.831
Final Drive 3.611/3.095

http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=73369

playdoh43

thanks jap

Rhawb

Sigh, I want so bad to give a dealership my money for a Mazdaspeed 3, but none of them seem all that interested in making a sale. "Firm at MSRP" somehow sounds like "go find another dealership" by the time it gets to my ears. Weird. It's even starting to sound a little bit like "Go find another manufacturer," on occasion.

Seriously though, I'd love to buy one this weekend if some dealership will stop screwing me around with this "firm at MSRP" crap. I need to get back to school and start up a new job after this week, so this is prime time for a purchase. If not, I suppose I've got until almost July to wait it out. If they keep this up, there's a good chance I'll be in a Honda - I guess we'll see what my local dealerships decide I should buy.

Japan8

I thought the MS3 was pretty much going for MSRP in most, if not all markets. Have you checked other major Mazda3/Protege forums to see what people are paying? You may not be able to deal on one if they really are selling as well as they are said to be...

playdoh43

dont ever pay msrp for a car man, just be patient.

VikingDJ

Most people have paid MSRP for the Speed 3. That's how it works. People on Mazda forums brag about getting $500 off MSRP. I'm sure if you are willing to travel and put the time in, you'll find a deal, but right now that's how it is inmost markets. The car isn't gonna be selling for $1-2-3000 below invoice like the Speed 6 has. That's how it will always be. You're not gonna see some $3000 cash back and stuff. There will be deals eventually, so you're gonna have to be patient. If you wait, I think near Invoice will eventually show up, perhaps by the time the 2008s arrive, which I believe there will be more produced that MY.

playdoh43

+1 ^ you can just wait for demand to naturally diminish over time

Rhawb

None of the forums I've found have really had a good, recent aggregation of what people are paying for the cars. It seems that I've seen a lot of talk of getting the GTs at invoice, but it seems that nobody is ever talking about the Sport trim (which I'm looking at).

I know to never pay MSRP, and I will never do it, I just wish one - just ONE - dealership would at least say "we'll see what we can work out" instead of straight refusing to deal. I'd be happy at about $1000 off MSRP (sans dealer fees), and I may even consider $750 off. Since I understand the car is hot right now, I'd be okay with paying a little bit more over invoice than I normally do, but never MSRP.

They do seem to be stacking up on lots, however, so maybe I'll get lucky here before my lease runs out (June).

CarAndDriver

^ One of the 8 owners here has a GF that got her MS3 for something like $600 over invoice. You should go find that 8 owner and get the info on what dealership they bought from.

VikingDJ

They simply are not worried about unloading those cars, nor should they be. Can't say I blame them, Hell I'd do the same thing, and you would too. A lot of people pay MSRP, so they are taking the likelihood that someone will come in and pay MSRP. They know those cars aren't gonna sit in that lot for months, and someone WILL likely come along and pay MSRP. Why shoudl they sell the car to you for $1000 less and lose that money? Now eventualyl if it doesn't work, they will cave and start allowing negotiations. No doubt there are people who have paid invoice for the GT in certian areas, but it's still a rarity.

However, there are so many flaws to what you pay for a car. You can get a car at invoice, and simply have gotten $500 less for a trade in then you normally would have gotten, meaning in reality you paid $500 over invoice. Maybe you might get $1000 less then you should have for your trade. ECT ECT. In your case, you are buying car without a trade, so your deal is REAL, and they don't wanna deal. It's frustrating, but I totally understand. The GT will always have more of a discount, because it's more expesive. Options depreciate FAST on cars. If I were the dealer, I'd refuse to deal right now too. When the time is right, they will deal, so be patient.

Rhawb

Heh, hopefully that time to deal will be within the next month and a half or so. Otherwise, I'm going to be driving something that's way more boring and I'll have broken my Mazda streak. I don't want to do that, but we'll see how this all works out.

VikingDJ

^^^^Or you could do what I did. I'd rather have a Speed 3 because compacts are my style, but I wasn't gonna wait for the Speed 3 to come out last year because I knew there wouldn't be great deals, and I'd have to pay too much for it. Essentially I got a Speed 6 for the price most pay for a Speed 3, and it's a more expensive car with more goodies and AWD. Heck, I paid $23500 for my Speed 6 in July, which was a super bargin back then. If there are any 06s left they sell for $21k or less now. Hope it works out for ya. I recommend searching dealers far away and traveling. You will find better results. Good luck!!

Rhawb

Unfortunately none of the dealers in my area have any more Speed 6s. One dealer had one silver 07 GT, but I'm not a big fan of silver and I think the GT might be too much, since it would take a $9000 discount off MSRP to put it near the 3. Though, the AWD would be nice.

Ike

9k off MSRP isn't too far off base for a MS6.

VikingDJ

As of now though, it is for the 07. Most of the 06s are gone, because they wanted them out, and they discounted them insanely to get them out. There's just no way you can get an 07 Speed 6 Sport for even $22k right now. It's more like $24-$25k at best, which is still a darn good deal IMO. The incentives aren't nearly as good as they were a year ago either when I got mine. Even the lease/buy offer is $70 more a month right now then it was one year ago. Of course the 06 was oversupplied for the demand, and once the 07 came out the 06 was pretty much used in the market so the price has to drop. Even if you get an 06 Speed 6 Sport for $21k, the moment you drive it off the lot, it's worth about what you paid. Same thing when I got mine for $23500. It was worth that. The 07 is definitely less produced, with less color choices as well, so it won't be as easy to find the deals, and I doubt there will be any 07s left one year from now for $21k. We'll see.