The 2007 G35
09-07-2006, 07:34 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by m477
Unfortunately, they're probably not going to do it because it wouldn't involve platform sharing. The ideal solution IMO would be to update the S platform (S16) and use it for both a new Silvia and the new Z. That way we could have both a cheap, 2.5L 4-seater Silvia coupe, and a 2-seater 3.5L 350Z, both well under 3000lbs. And the bean counters would get to preserve their sacred platform sharing.
09-07-2006, 07:50 PM
#27
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Haven't people weighed their base model RX-8's at under 3000lbs? And the new MX-5 weighs 2500lbs, and is quite comfortable and safe. And if they make a Kabura or new RX-7, those would most definitely weight under 3,000lbs as well.
The thing you've got to keep in mind here is that the Silvia is smaller than the RX-8 and doesn't have rear doors. The last Silvia was produced in 2002 and had a 250hp turbo engine with a chassis, suspension and brakes to match and still only weighed 2,800lbs. Sure, an updated version might add a few pounds but I don't think that sub-3000lbs is at all unrealistic.
Also, keep in mind that a number of new cars today have ended up *lighter* than their predecessors, such as the new 5-series, the new Legacy, and the new Corvette.
The thing you've got to keep in mind here is that the Silvia is smaller than the RX-8 and doesn't have rear doors. The last Silvia was produced in 2002 and had a 250hp turbo engine with a chassis, suspension and brakes to match and still only weighed 2,800lbs. Sure, an updated version might add a few pounds but I don't think that sub-3000lbs is at all unrealistic.
Also, keep in mind that a number of new cars today have ended up *lighter* than their predecessors, such as the new 5-series, the new Legacy, and the new Corvette.
Last edited by m477; 09-07-2006 at 07:55 PM.
09-07-2006, 07:55 PM
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^^^You're idea for a Silvia sounds good but it just doesn't gel with Infinity's business plan right now. It would require a completely new chassis and all the R&D that goes with it. The only thing that they won't really need to worry about is the engine. Still, with all the effort that will go into making a Silvia (240sx) the car will definitely not be cheap. It'll probably end up around the cost of an RX-8.
09-07-2006, 08:31 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by m477
Haven't people weighed their base model RX-8's at under 3000lbs? And the new MX-5 weighs 2500lbs, and is quite comfortable and safe. And if they make a Kabura or new RX-7, those would most definitely weight under 3,000lbs as well.
The thing you've got to keep in mind here is that the Silvia is smaller than the RX-8 and doesn't have rear doors. The last Silvia was produced in 2002 and had a 250hp turbo engine with a chassis, suspension and brakes to match and still only weighed 2,800lbs. Sure, an updated version might add a few pounds but I don't think that sub-3000lbs is at all unrealistic.
Also, keep in mind that a number of new cars today have ended up *lighter* than their predecessors, such as the new 5-series, the new Legacy, and the new Corvette.
The thing you've got to keep in mind here is that the Silvia is smaller than the RX-8 and doesn't have rear doors. The last Silvia was produced in 2002 and had a 250hp turbo engine with a chassis, suspension and brakes to match and still only weighed 2,800lbs. Sure, an updated version might add a few pounds but I don't think that sub-3000lbs is at all unrealistic.
Also, keep in mind that a number of new cars today have ended up *lighter* than their predecessors, such as the new 5-series, the new Legacy, and the new Corvette.
Take a look at the lotus elise. We're going to see a migration towards that type of design. The elise may not have a sickenning amount of horsepower, but it compromises by having less weight. In fact, the difference between the elise in the US and Europe is the safety features and the weight difference is small (it's just the airbags in this case). The elise does this by using an aluminum bonded tub chassis. They started this with the last model esprit and really perfected it with the elise. The esprit btw was a 2+2 with a small turbo V8 that put out 350 horsepower stock, and it weighed in at just over 3000lbs (3042lbs). That's without carbon fiber and a V8 that weighed 220kg (485lbs). Just imagine what that car would be like today.
Lighter stronger materials are more expensive today, but their prices are coming down and affordable production cars are coming. It'll just take some time, especially here in the GM/Ford driven US where the SUV has ruled for the last 10 years. Now that that era is over, lightweight, agile cars are sure to return (check out the tesla if you don't believe me).
09-07-2006, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ajax
While, I agree with you that current generation vehicles only are getting heavier, I will completely disagree with the notion that <3000 vehicles are gone. They will return once the auto industry moves towards modern materials.
Take a look at the lotus elise. We're going to see a migration towards that type of design. The elise may not have a sickenning amount of horsepower, but it compromises by having less weight. In fact, the difference between the elise in the US and Europe is the safety features and the weight difference is small (it's just the airbags in this case). The elise does this by using an aluminum bonded tub chassis. They started this with the last model esprit and really perfected it with the elise. The esprit btw was a 2+2 with a small turbo V8 that put out 350 horsepower stock, and it weighed in at just over 3000lbs (3042lbs). That's without carbon fiber and a V8 that weighed 220kg (485lbs). Just imagine what that car would be like today.
Lighter stronger materials are more expensive today, but their prices are coming down and affordable production cars are coming. It'll just take some time, especially here in the GM/Ford driven US where the SUV has ruled for the last 10 years. Now that that era is over, lightweight, agile cars are sure to return (check out the tesla if you don't believe me).
Take a look at the lotus elise. We're going to see a migration towards that type of design. The elise may not have a sickenning amount of horsepower, but it compromises by having less weight. In fact, the difference between the elise in the US and Europe is the safety features and the weight difference is small (it's just the airbags in this case). The elise does this by using an aluminum bonded tub chassis. They started this with the last model esprit and really perfected it with the elise. The esprit btw was a 2+2 with a small turbo V8 that put out 350 horsepower stock, and it weighed in at just over 3000lbs (3042lbs). That's without carbon fiber and a V8 that weighed 220kg (485lbs). Just imagine what that car would be like today.
Lighter stronger materials are more expensive today, but their prices are coming down and affordable production cars are coming. It'll just take some time, especially here in the GM/Ford driven US where the SUV has ruled for the last 10 years. Now that that era is over, lightweight, agile cars are sure to return (check out the tesla if you don't believe me).
09-07-2006, 08:58 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by map
The cars you mention are niche vehicles that cost a premium. I see what you're saying about costs coming down on thier technology as time passes, but the simple fact is that steel will always be cheaper than aluminum, carbon fiber, or any other material that weighs substantially less. Part of the deal for a new Silvia would be an affordable price, and as long as that's a concern you're going to have two things, the lowest costing material (steel) and most likely platform sharing.
The technology in those top end cars will either die off or make it into lower end production vehicles.
The elise runs 40k, which is 10k more than a fully loaded 8 when it was released. The elise platform was designed to be shared throughout lotus vehicles and theyre doing that already. There's nothing to say that the auto industry cannot build platforms like this except cost. Lotus can afford to do it because they're a small niche auto manufacturer that only has to tool to build 1 type of vehicle. The rest of the industry would have to retool to build them.
Carbon fiber is only expensive to make because the manufacturing process isnt as perfected / proven as something like steel. You're right, steel will be around for a while, and it certainly has its merits, but the industry already recognizes that they could build better performing and more fuel efficient vehicles if they made them lighter.
09-08-2006, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by m477
http://www.350z-tech.com/zwiki/VQ35HR
There are two versions of the new VQ, a 2.5L and a 3.5L. The 2.5L would be just right for a new Silvia if they decided to make one. The 3.5 would be too much engine for the car -- they would have to beef up everything else to handle it, so it would end up too expensive and/or heavy. There actually is such a thing as too much power when you're trying to keep a car inexpensive, simple, and light.
Unfortunately, they're probably not going to do it because it wouldn't involve platform sharing. The ideal solution IMO would be to update the S platform (S16) and use it for both a new Silvia and the new Z. That way we could have both a cheap, 2.5L 4-seater Silvia coupe, and a 2-seater 3.5L 350Z, both well under 3000lbs. And the bean counters would get to preserve their sacred platform sharing.
There are two versions of the new VQ, a 2.5L and a 3.5L. The 2.5L would be just right for a new Silvia if they decided to make one. The 3.5 would be too much engine for the car -- they would have to beef up everything else to handle it, so it would end up too expensive and/or heavy. There actually is such a thing as too much power when you're trying to keep a car inexpensive, simple, and light.
Unfortunately, they're probably not going to do it because it wouldn't involve platform sharing. The ideal solution IMO would be to update the S platform (S16) and use it for both a new Silvia and the new Z. That way we could have both a cheap, 2.5L 4-seater Silvia coupe, and a 2-seater 3.5L 350Z, both well under 3000lbs. And the bean counters would get to preserve their sacred platform sharing.
09-08-2006, 01:59 PM
#39
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i like it, i will say i still dont like the interior. that nav console thats almost horizontal looks like they shoved an Intellivision or Atari on the dash. Plus the buttons at that angle would seem hard to read/decipher. not sure if its a deal breaker for me, but wish it looked better on the inside.
09-08-2006, 02:27 PM
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It's definitely evolutionary, but in a good way. Nissan improved the weaker aspects of the 1st generation. The styling change is pretty subtle though. An even better dear.
09-08-2006, 02:38 PM
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I only wish it was more A4/IS350/3 series size... its the same complaint that I had with the last generation and I still can't get myself to accept driving a midsized car 
09-08-2006, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by r0tor
I only wish it was more A4/IS350/3 series size... its the same complaint that I had with the last generation and I still can't get myself to accept driving a midsized car
The coupe is smaller in size.
09-08-2006, 02:59 PM
#45
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eww. i know its "just the sedan", but i think the styling update is a step or two backwards. they didnt seem to change much, but the details (like the cutout running along the bottom) looks liek crap to me.
why do they bother with the analog clock? is that supposed to imply classiness?
why do they bother with the analog clock? is that supposed to imply classiness?
09-09-2006, 11:07 PM
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Nice update, if I can get my wife away from SUV's I'd consider one for our familymobile.
Still, not an exciting car. A Charger SRT8 sells for about the same up here...thats exciting!
Still, not an exciting car. A Charger SRT8 sells for about the same up here...thats exciting!
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