DemonRX-8

Well yeah, he clearly had a tire problem last year . . . you know, there wasn't enough pressure on the gas pedal to make the wheel turn! No, this is completely different being a that it's a seperate team. We know and accept team orders (trust me it happens for everyone), but inter-team orders is a different story. As I said, I would have zero problems if Lewis won the Championship if it was on his (and his team's) own merit. Glocks tires were so bad that he held the pace for 9 or so laps in the wet but just couldn't quite negotiate that last turn, hmmm . . .

DemonRX-8

PS, I would have said the same thing if Alonso would have slowed down and somehow caused Hamilton to lose and give it to Massa.

alfy28

BlueEyes

Yeah hmmm maybe it got wetter over the 9 laps? hmmm maybe the tires became more worn?

I don't know what we can say to you. Glock said his tires went off, and being on dry tires in the wet that makes perfect sense. Especially given he hadn't pit in a while. You can see his car all over the place in the replays. But hey, you're boy lost, so I guess any excuse right...

alfy28

it started raining on lap 5. you know dry tires on wet is like driving on ice. Lap 4 all the top drivers came in for wet tires. /shrug

even alonoso team told him it will start raining in 10 l aps. that call was made on lap 14

as for you first comment. i am not going to even respond to that, since it must of helped you sleep at night. because we all know what massa did for kimi last year. and it wasnt due to some car problem.

BlueEyes

For Demon

alfy28

lmao


btw its all good demon. maybe next year ferrari driver might win championship. until then




ALL HAIL HAMILTON

imput1234

iTrader: (6)

What a race, I serious thought Hamiton was out of luck.

cant believe he gave his spot

morkusyambo

I still love F1 and cant' wait wait for next year. That being said, this season was not without some serious flaws, IMHO. I'm not going to list them here, because i've mentioned them before in this very thread. That being said, here are a few that are fresh in my mind....

Stefano Domenecali was handed the keys to the fastest cars in the paddock and managed to win the constructors championship in spite of his best efforts to the contrary. Felipe Massa came the closest he ever will to winning a championship(not even a top 4 driver IMHO) and Stefano WAS successfull in screwing him over.

In spite of the FIA and his own best efforts to screw himself, Lewis is lucky enough to scrape out a championship. Here we see the difference between a team that only cares about constructors(Ferrari) and one that cares about their drivers.

The bright light for me in the last few races was the progress of Renault and Fernando, along with the performance of Sebastian Vettel. Maybe we'll see more than a 2 team competition next year??

Here is hoping whatever rule changes Bernie comes up with, they help the best man/team win. The last thing I want to see is a format that artificially keeps people in the championship hunt, a-la NASCAR.

The biggest dissapointments this season have to be the FIA playing God and Kimi Raikonnen's driving. Saying the car just didn't feel right gets old when you here it every week. Here is a tip. Lay off the sauce the night before a race Kimster.

Camel8

Haha! I'm sorry to hear that, no-one deserves to go to stoke, never mind lose to them :P

PerSmitt

What Hamilton did was much more difficult than pushing for first. He conserved engine, tires and drove smart. Last year he was under heavy criticism for having "tossed away" the championship. A lot of critics said he would do it this year too.

Instead he drove a very tactical and smart race. If not for the rain at the end he would have finished fourth ahead of Vettel. I find this victory clear evidence that Hamilton has grown up as a driver, and now can drive a tactical race as well as a spirited race.

PerSmitt

Timo Glock didn't let Hamilton pass. It got temporarily more wet and he lost traction in the last turns. Hamilton pulled 5-6 seconds away from Glock in the last 3 turns. Thats not by letting someone pass, that is the difference between dry and wet-tires.

Glock really dislikes Hamilton after the Monza incident when Hamilton forced Glock off the track. He would have loved nothing more than to deprive Hamilton of the victory. He almost succeeded.

Your statement shows however that you are seriously biased and/or probably don't know how hard it is to drive dry-tires in the wet.

alfy28

I agree with Persmitt. also what alot of Ferrai fan's forget is, Ferrari swapped out their engine 2-3 races ago. Hamilton finished off with the engine he began the session with. A true racer work with his team, he has to conserve oil temp, tire's brakes etc. we seen alot of races this year when the driver went all out, only to have the engine fail on them on last 2laps. so if you want to down hamilton because he stayed consertive (which is not what i am use to seeing out of hamilton) so be it. but there is no changing that he walked away with the main prize of the session

Pololo_RX8

AGREED 100%.

Hamilton owes this to Glock. Funny I thought the stewarts were going to investigate if Glock actually let Hamilton pass. I guess that wasn't the case when it involved the arrogant and cocky Lewis...

Massa deserved the championship and I am sure Glock will get a nice ($$$) reward for what he did... That should be included in the $10M Ron Dennis invested in the last 2 weeks to make sure nothing happens to his arrogant "baby".

Carlos

alfy28

What does hamilton owe Glock , a new set of wet tires, stop time to allow glock to pit in to put on wet tires? Did you even watch the race? did you even hear the announcer say (on lap 5 or was it 6), only drivers still out there with Dry tires on during the rain is Glock and other 2 drivers. Did you not see all the top drivers pit on lap 5 and 4 to put on wet tires? are you ferrari fans that blind?

im starting to think ferrari fans been drinking to much kool aid to make them selves delusional.

Pololo_RX8

Geeez... I didn't personally attack you did I? I am better than that so I'll overlook this comment.

I have been watching F1 since the early 80's and I could be biased since I believe Ayrton Senna has been and will always be the BEST driver that ever existed in F1.

I do understand dry vs. wet tires but look at Alonso, he goes on dry tires even when most of the field is still on wet... THIS IS *****!!! that Lewis doesn't have.

I know it was a gamble but how ironic that just the last corner he couldn't keep up with the pace... funny ah?? suuuuureeeee.....

Massa, once again, deserved to be champion. The one thing I agree is that Ferrari, cares more about the constructor's title, unlike Maclaren.

Carlos

alfy28

man i am just playing around. please dont take my comments so seriously. just fun picking on ferrari fans that is all.

and its funny that the last turn is a up hill turn. you ever push the gas hard with out spinning oout on a wet up hill before? especially on dry tires on a wet surface.

also since you been watching f1 since the 80's. i take it you seen the race when hamilton cut the corner to avoid hitting kimi. gave back postion to kimi. i guess you seen how badly both drivers where driving with dry tires on wet surface, and i guess you seen what happend to kimi right?


and if alsono has *****, why did he pit in to put on wet tires ? i do think alonso is a awsme driver and all. but it only shows you if he is putting on wet tire something must be going on the track.


also massa derserve a penalty for running bordai (who just came out the pits btw) off the track back in japan. but hey what did FIA do? nada


also to ferrai fans who dog Hamilton for winning by one point. I didnt see you guys ******* Kimi, because he won by one point in last year session.


http://www.auto123.com/en/news/car-n...p?artid=102592


I'm just wondering how much money Timo had on Lewis to be world champion," an online reader of the International Herald Tribune newspaper wryly commented after the decisive Brazilian grand prix.

Had Toyota's Timo Glock not posted a lap time 20 seconds slower than his previous tour of the Interlagos circuit and ceded a place to the Briton, Lewis Hamilton would not have clinched the world championship.

"I am not sure if Glock was trying to do Hamilton a favour or not," said commentator and 1982 world champion Keke Rosberg.

The 'favour' theory is unlikely, given the fact that Hamilton and Glock, following a run-in or two this season, are hardly the best of friends.
"I definitely did not give the place to him (deliberately)," Glock told reporters.Precisely why Glock had not changed to wet tyres in the late rain shower was not explained, but the German apparently revealed after the race that he had made the request to his pit wall.

"Who would have thought that Glock would have stayed out on dry tyres? It's all a bit technical, but there doesn't seem like anything dodgy or untoward," said McLaren boss Ron Dennis.
Team chief executive Martin Whitmarsh insisted the team was confident Glock would be overhauled on the decisive lap, but Mercedes' Norbert Haug admits his heart sank when Sebastian Vettel stole the necessary fifth place from Hamilton.

Glock said he felt bad for Felipe Massa, whose crew in the Ferrari garage celebrated the title for a few seconds before it became clear that the Toyota had dropped behind Hamilton.
In an interview with ITV, Hamilton laughed when he was asked what he will say to Glock when he sees him next.

"Well, I don't think I ... he did a great job. Thank god he didn't get in my way or we didn't collide. So a big thank you to him for staying out of the way," the McLaren driver said.

Pololo_RX8

Here you go... I think we are not the only ones thinking that Lewis didn't deserve to win the F1:World Championship.

Just google it and it's all over the place...

http://www.oddjack.com/2008/lewis-ha...ersy-11-03.php

If Lewis would have fought Sebastian Vettel, yes I agree he deserves to be there but I don't think he does. It's a championship in doubt indeed.

My 2 cents,
Carlos

alfy28

well then last year Kimi didnt deserve the champion ship then right? since we all know that massa allowed kimi to pass him for the championship, even though they want to use the whole car issues excuse.

and how about last race when Kimi allowed Massa to pass him up? by your logic, none of these drivers deserve the championship then.


Ferrari fans are the first to blame someone for mistakes, but when their very own driver makes mistake and does not get a penaltly for it, they just turn a blind eye. that is why i love picking on ferrari fans, they are biggest hypocrites in the F1 series.

also why do i need to google it? when they show evidence that Glock called in to the pits to switch out his tires. that is proof enough for me that Glock felt he should be on wets. also if you watch Hamilton cockpit video, you see him fighting the steering wheel lots of time, and this is on wet tires.

bottom line is i am glad to see ferrari fans all emotional like this. its free comedy at its best.

Pololo_RX8

We can be discussing this all day long and never agree. I respect your opinion and I am sure you respect mine as well.

We can go back and forth giving examples of "what if"... but too late and no point on doing that.

Actually, I am Alonso's fan and then Massa.. I even wanted Alonso to win the race but oh well... It was a good season finally exciting unlike when Schumacher was still driving (boring if you ask me).

Many mistakes by the teams, drivers and stewarts...but a great race above all.

Still though, whether Lewis deserves this or not? That is subject to different points of view.

All good.

Carlos

alfy28

lol true, i do respect your opinion.like you said, it probably would a all day event lol.


but yah next session will be awesome for renault. alonso has done so much this session for them, i think their next year car will be very competive. now alonso only needs a team mate to help with the constructors points. because nelson is not doing enough IMO.

PerSmitt

I don't understand where all conspiracy theories come from. If we look back a few races (Spa) Heidfeld running on wets went up from 11th place to 3rd in two laps. In rainy conditions the lap times differ 20 seconds or more between dry and wet tires.

The tactics are incredibly simple too. The stragglers chanced on rain tires early hoping for a downpour and thus get an advantage. 1-2 laps later almost everyone has pitted. At this point the ones who haven't pitted can chance and stay out gaining 30-40 seconds.

If the rain had lessened instead of increased Glock would have been in front of Hamilton. However, the rain increased and Glock could not drive any faster.

If Glock would have wanted to "give" the victory to Hamilton, why didn't he just pitstop and thus never passing him? Glock saw an opportunity to take a few more points and deprive Hamilton of the victory.

So please stop with the conspiracies. Its so obvious that conspiracy theories only make the conspirators seem like sore losers.

RX26b

And your case is a helluva strong one because you can argue that Senna many times drove inferior equipment yet still, sometimes against seemingly impossible odds, was able to pull off victories. The same cannot be said of LH.

Senna sure put in his dues, unlike some drivers today.
After yesterday's race, and given the fact he won more races this year I'd tend to agree with you. I'm not a Ferrari or McLaren fan, for the record.

alfy28

wow a whopping 1 race lead over hamilton. lol you gusy make it look like Massa won like 3-5 races over hamilton.



http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...8/11/8642.html
Q&A with Toyota’s Timo GlockToyota’s decision to keep their drivers on dry tyres when late ran arrived at Interlagos on Sunday helped set up a thrilling finale to the 2008 Formula One season. It also led cynics to question whether Timo Glock had deliberately slowed to assure Lewis Hamilton of the title. ‘Absolutely not,’ says the German…

Q: How did the rain at the end of the race affect your strategy?
Timo Glock: In the final laps we saw that we had the opportunity to make up some places due to the rain. It started to rain lightly on parts of the circuit with around six laps to go and at that stage everyone was on dry tyres. We took the decision to stay out on dry tyres even though the intensity of the rain was increasing we were sure we could make up positions when the other cars pitted for wet weather tyres and because it was only on the last couple of laps that the wet tyre was superior. We stayed out and I was up to fourth but it was not easy in those conditions in the last laps.

Q: What was it like in wet conditions with dry tyres?
TG: It was not so bad until the final lap when the rain really began to come down very heavily and it was just impossible. It was so difficult to just keep the car on the track because it was very wet and the car was basically undriveable in those conditions. I was sliding everywhere, with absolutely no grip at all.

Q: Were you taking it easy on the final lap?
TG: Absolutely not! It was completely the opposite; the final lap was one of the hardest laps I have done in Formula One because there was no grip at all and on dry tyres it was almost impossible to keep the car on track. I was pushing really hard to keep fourth place and if you look at the lap times I was actually faster than Jarno on the final lap and he was the only other car on dry tyres at that stage.

Q: Was it the right decision to stay on dry tyres?
TG: Absolutely no doubt about it. We were running seventh before the rain came and we would have probably finished there if it had been totally dry. Instead we finished sixth so that shows the strategy was the right one.

Q: Did you realise the significance of Lewis Hamilton fighting with you on the final lap?
TG: To be honest I was racing for Toyota and my place which is the correct thing to do. I didn't even know that Lewis was directly behind me. The team told me that Sebastian Vettel was catching me and they kept me updated on his position but I was concentrating so hard on keeping the car on the track. I didn't even know that Lewis had overtaken me until after the race. I was passed by three or four cars on the final lap and it was not easy to keep track of what was going on.

Q: This is the end of your first season with Toyota, how do you assess the year?
TG: It has been very positive for me. At the start of the season I set myself a target of scoring 20 points and in the end I have finished with 25 and a podium in Budapest, so I am very happy with that. The first few races were a bit difficult as I was adjusting to a new car and a new team but we all worked really hard to improve and we made good progress. Finishing fourth in Canada was a big boost for me and the team but the turning point was Hockenheim, where I was really competitive in the race until the mechanical problem. After that I was fighting high up the grid in pretty much every race and we scored a lot of points. But this is only the first step and next year I want to achieve a lot more, so we are already working hard to make another step

alfy28

wow a whopping 1 race lead over hamilton. lol you guys make it look like Massa won like 3-5 races over hamilton.



http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...8/11/8642.html
Q&A with Toyota’s Timo GlockToyota’s decision to keep their drivers on dry tyres when late ran arrived at Interlagos on Sunday helped set up a thrilling finale to the 2008 Formula One season. It also led cynics to question whether Timo Glock had deliberately slowed to assure Lewis Hamilton of the title. ‘Absolutely not,’ says the German…

Q: How did the rain at the end of the race affect your strategy?
Timo Glock: In the final laps we saw that we had the opportunity to make up some places due to the rain. It started to rain lightly on parts of the circuit with around six laps to go and at that stage everyone was on dry tyres. We took the decision to stay out on dry tyres even though the intensity of the rain was increasing we were sure we could make up positions when the other cars pitted for wet weather tyres and because it was only on the last couple of laps that the wet tyre was superior. We stayed out and I was up to fourth but it was not easy in those conditions in the last laps.

Q: What was it like in wet conditions with dry tyres?TG: It was not so bad until the final lap when the rain really began to come down very heavily and it was just impossible. It was so difficult to just keep the car on the track because it was very wet and the car was basically undriveable in those conditions. I was sliding everywhere, with absolutely no grip at all.

Q: Were you taking it easy on the final lap?TG: Absolutely not! It was completely the opposite; the final lap was one of the hardest laps I have done in Formula One because there was no grip at all and on dry tyres it was almost impossible to keep the car on track. I was pushing really hard to keep fourth place and if you look at the lap times I was actually faster than Jarno on the final lap and he was the only other car on dry tyres at that stage.

Q: Was it the right decision to stay on dry tyres?TG: Absolutely no doubt about it. We were running seventh before the rain came and we would have probably finished there if it had been totally dry. Instead we finished sixth so that shows the strategy was the right one.

Q: Did you realise the significance of Lewis Hamilton fighting with you on the final lap?TG: To be honest I was racing for Toyota and my place which is the correct thing to do. I didn't even know that Lewis was directly behind me. The team told me that Sebastian Vettel was catching me and they kept me updated on his position but I was concentrating so hard on keeping the car on the track. I didn't even know that Lewis had overtaken me until after the race. I was passed by three or four cars on the final lap and it was not easy to keep track of what was going on.

Q: This is the end of your first season with Toyota, how do you assess the year?
TG: It has been very positive for me. At the start of the season I set myself a target of scoring 20 points and in the end I have finished with 25 and a podium in Budapest, so I am very happy with that. The first few races were a bit difficult as I was adjusting to a new car and a new team but we all worked really hard to improve and we made good progress. Finishing fourth in Canada was a big boost for me and the team but the turning point was Hockenheim, where I was really competitive in the race until the mechanical problem. After that I was fighting high up the grid in pretty much every race and we scored a lot of points. But this is only the first step and next year I want to achieve a lot more, so we are already working hard to make another step