2009 Camaro pics
01-10-2006, 02:23 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by snizzle
The Camaro won't have 500... at least if the top tier Vette at the time is still ONLY 500HP. I doubt they'll let the Camaro outperform the Vette and it's been clear for a while that they are aiming the GT500 at the Vette performance wise. The Camaro and Vette will always be distanced to some degree.
I know the Camaro won't have 500.....that is why it won't be faster than the Mustang. That was the point of my statement. Everyone was bashing the Mustang as being the car that could never beat the Camaro.....I guess those days are over.....unless GM allows the Camaro to have the same power as the Vette (unlikely).
01-10-2006, 02:29 PM
#127
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
GM...aint allowing the Mustang to surpass the Vette especially since Ford would have to put 600HP in the Shelby to get even close to the Z06 considering it's weight. I hear the GT500 will weigh 3,800 pounds and that's 700 pounds more than the Vette but even if it comes in at 3,500 pounds that's still off by 400 pounds.
Personally, I think Ford is taking a bite out of something it can't chew and regardless of how many people like the retro Mustang it's BUTT ugly compared to a Z06/Vette. (while looks are subjective as you know)
Personally, I think Ford is taking a bite out of something it can't chew and regardless of how many people like the retro Mustang it's BUTT ugly compared to a Z06/Vette. (while looks are subjective as you know)
Who says that Ford is postioning the GT500 as competition for the ZO6? First of all the base price of the GT500 will be $38K.....the base on a ZO6 is what......$65K. How is that competitive? The GT500 has no competition yet.....but perhaps in 2009 it might. You could say that HP/LBS wise, the GT500 and the regular C6 Vette are competitors.....but that is a stretch.
01-10-2006, 02:51 PM
#128
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Come on...you know they are chasing the Vette, even if it's the normal Vette. Based on HP per pound it might reach the standard Vette...
I'm guessing it will have 500HP right?
So, the standard Vette comes in at 7.75lbs per HP
The GT500 @ 3.8K 7.6lbs per HP
A great HP per $$ ratio, but it still wont be in the same class as the Vette handling wise BUT, with that said let's see what it can do once it comes out and leave the speculation out of this.
Honestly, I'd rather have a 44K Vette than a 38K mustang regardless if it might be a bit faster.
Again...no one is bashing the Mustang, at least not me...I'm just not the biggest fan of it while I respect them and think they offer great value regarding performance. Just remember it's more than just HP numbers...what makes a car great takes more than one area.
AGAIN...the Mustang is pretty dang good, but I just "like" them not "love" them.
I'm guessing it will have 500HP right?
So, the standard Vette comes in at 7.75lbs per HP
The GT500 @ 3.8K 7.6lbs per HP
A great HP per $$ ratio, but it still wont be in the same class as the Vette handling wise BUT, with that said let's see what it can do once it comes out and leave the speculation out of this.
Honestly, I'd rather have a 44K Vette than a 38K mustang regardless if it might be a bit faster.
Again...no one is bashing the Mustang, at least not me...I'm just not the biggest fan of it while I respect them and think they offer great value regarding performance. Just remember it's more than just HP numbers...what makes a car great takes more than one area.
AGAIN...the Mustang is pretty dang good, but I just "like" them not "love" them.
01-10-2006, 03:04 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
Come on...you know they are chasing the Vette, even if it's the normal Vette. Based on HP per pound it might reach the standard Vette...
I'm guessing it will have 500HP right?
So, the standard Vette comes in at 7.75lbs per HP
The GT500 @ 3.8K 7.6lbs per HP
A great HP per $$ ratio, but it still wont be in the same class as the Vette handling wise BUT, with that said let's see what it can do once it comes out and leave the speculation out of this.
Honestly, I'd rather have a 44K Vette than a 38K mustang regardless if it might be a bit faster.
Again...no one is bashing the Mustang, at least not me...I'm just not the biggest fan of it while I respect them and think they offer great value regarding performance. Just remember it's more than just HP numbers...what makes a car great takes more than one area.
AGAIN...the Mustang is pretty dang good, but I just "like" them not "love" them.
I'm guessing it will have 500HP right?
So, the standard Vette comes in at 7.75lbs per HP
The GT500 @ 3.8K 7.6lbs per HP
A great HP per $$ ratio, but it still wont be in the same class as the Vette handling wise BUT, with that said let's see what it can do once it comes out and leave the speculation out of this.
Honestly, I'd rather have a 44K Vette than a 38K mustang regardless if it might be a bit faster.
Again...no one is bashing the Mustang, at least not me...I'm just not the biggest fan of it while I respect them and think they offer great value regarding performance. Just remember it's more than just HP numbers...what makes a car great takes more than one area.
AGAIN...the Mustang is pretty dang good, but I just "like" them not "love" them.
I am not arguing with you because I am a Mustang finatic....because I am not. I would take a C6 Vette over almost any other car in or near it's price range......it's a fantastic automobile. But I had to call you out on the comparison you were making because it's just plain false.
01-10-2006, 03:47 PM
#130
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Originally Posted by bascho
I know the Camaro won't have 500.....that is why it won't be faster than the Mustang. That was the point of my statement. Everyone was bashing the Mustang as being the car that could never beat the Camaro.....I guess those days are over.....unless GM allows the Camaro to have the same power as the Vette (unlikely).
cell it
0-60 in 5.1
.1 seconds slower than an 02 WS6. and they only had 325hp, 350tq LS1
...now....with plans to put an LS2 in there...thats a whole different ballpark...most definely sub 5s. so yeah...it in no way should be faster than the camaro.
btw...there was 1 year that the mustang kicked the crap outta the F-body...i believe one of the 5.0 years
and the camaro wont be the same as the vette
GTO for reference (btw...RX8 is a competitor of the stang...carry on)
01-10-2006, 03:50 PM
#132
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Engine HP/TQ 0-60 0-100 Quarter Mile Top Speed
4.0L SOHC V-6 210 hp @ 5250 RPM
240 lb-ft @ 3500 RPM 6.9 sec 19 sec 15.3 sec @ 91 mph 113 mph
4.6L SOHC V-8 300 hp @ 5750 RPM
320 lb-ft @ 4500 RPM 5.1 sec 13.2 sec 13.5 sec @ 103 mph 143 mph
4.0L SOHC V-6 210 hp @ 5250 RPM
240 lb-ft @ 3500 RPM 6.9 sec 19 sec 15.3 sec @ 91 mph 113 mph
4.6L SOHC V-8 300 hp @ 5750 RPM
320 lb-ft @ 4500 RPM 5.1 sec 13.2 sec 13.5 sec @ 103 mph 143 mph
2006 Mustang Retail Prices
V6 Deluxe Coupe $19,910
V6 Deluxe Convertible $24,735
V6 Premium Coupe $20,785
V6 Premium Convertible $25,610
GT Deluxe Coupe $25,835
GT Deluxe Convertible $30,660
GT Premium Coupe $27,015
GT Premium Convertible $31,840
V6 Deluxe Coupe $19,910
V6 Deluxe Convertible $24,735
V6 Premium Coupe $20,785
V6 Premium Convertible $25,610
GT Deluxe Coupe $25,835
GT Deluxe Convertible $30,660
GT Premium Coupe $27,015
GT Premium Convertible $31,840
01-10-2006, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Transam kid 01
no, it will have 400+
I wouldn't get too excited there Transam kid, GM is more worried about still being in business in 2009 then making a niche muscle car to please less than 150,000 people per year.
01-10-2006, 03:54 PM
#134
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Note: Trans Am kid, remember quality is not owned by price just ask all those lesser priced Honda's and Toyota's. Heck...I just read in a mag that they Land Rover was having all sorts of electrical issues and that dang thing cost $70,000. So...I'm all for quality but it's not price that get's it...it's EFFORT and DETERMINATION.
but adding a lot to a car increases the price, especially when making the car function well, handle well, have immense power, a nice interior, great tires, etc
01-10-2006, 03:55 PM
#135
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Originally Posted by bascho
IT WILL!!! Funny, GM hasn't even decided on making this car at all.....and yet it's going to have 400+ hp??
I wouldn't get too excited there Transam kid, GM is more worried about still being in business in 2009 then making a niche muscle car to please less than 150,000 people per year.
I wouldn't get too excited there Transam kid, GM is more worried about still being in business in 2009 then making a niche muscle car to please less than 150,000 people per year.
01-10-2006, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Transam kid 01
It already does....the FUNCTIONAL prototype in detroit is powered by an LS2 corvette engine
The concept Mustang was also going to have 400 hp.....guess what, the production car has 300hp. If they do bring the Camaro or Chevelle to the market in '09, I agree it may have some version of the LS2......but to comment on the power output of a concept vs a production car is just ridiculous.
01-10-2006, 04:05 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by bascho
It's a concept car.....they can put whatever engine they want into it. They can put a 1000 hp twin-turbo'd V12 into the concept if they wanted to.......it has nothing to do with what is used in production.
The concept Mustang was also going to have 400 hp.....guess what, the production car has 300hp. If they do bring the Camaro or Chevelle to the market in '09, I agree it may have some version of the LS2......but to comment on the power output of a concept vs a production car is just ridiculous.
The concept Mustang was also going to have 400 hp.....guess what, the production car has 300hp. If they do bring the Camaro or Chevelle to the market in '09, I agree it may have some version of the LS2......but to comment on the power output of a concept vs a production car is just ridiculous.
01-10-2006, 04:15 PM
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Date posted: 01-09-2006
DETROIT — The Camaro is back…if only in concept form. But it may be in your driveway by 2009.
General Motors scored a major hit with the world's automotive press on Monday, unveiling a stunning reborn version of the classic Chevy Camaro nameplate, but this time with 400 horsepower, 30 miles per gallon on the highway and — most famously — a totally new look.
Camaro loyalists should be even more pleased to hear, according to unofficial word from GM suppliers, that the company plans to revive production of the Camaro in early 2009. GM reportedly plans to build a version of the car on the so-called Zeta Lite platform, which itself is an evolution of the rear-drive Pontiac GTO chassis and should easily accommodate the small-block V8.
GM says the Camaro concept pays homage to the original 1967 Camaro with nods to aircraft like the YF-22 to make it "instantly recognizable as an all-new car."
Officials said the design features a long hood, short deck and wide stance to present a performance appearance, backed up by a 400-hp aluminum small-block V8. Surprisingly, this beast will also offer great mileage as GM's "Active Fuel Management" technology allows drivers to operate with only four of the eight cylinders during highway cruising. This technology is currently featured on GM's Chevy Impala sedan and several 2006 sport-utilities and trucks.
The unveiling was a story in itself as a local marching band led the way for a parade of classic Camaros that snaked through a massive crowd of journalists who lined up early for a good seat.
DETROIT — The Camaro is back…if only in concept form. But it may be in your driveway by 2009.
General Motors scored a major hit with the world's automotive press on Monday, unveiling a stunning reborn version of the classic Chevy Camaro nameplate, but this time with 400 horsepower, 30 miles per gallon on the highway and — most famously — a totally new look.
Camaro loyalists should be even more pleased to hear, according to unofficial word from GM suppliers, that the company plans to revive production of the Camaro in early 2009. GM reportedly plans to build a version of the car on the so-called Zeta Lite platform, which itself is an evolution of the rear-drive Pontiac GTO chassis and should easily accommodate the small-block V8.
GM says the Camaro concept pays homage to the original 1967 Camaro with nods to aircraft like the YF-22 to make it "instantly recognizable as an all-new car."
Officials said the design features a long hood, short deck and wide stance to present a performance appearance, backed up by a 400-hp aluminum small-block V8. Surprisingly, this beast will also offer great mileage as GM's "Active Fuel Management" technology allows drivers to operate with only four of the eight cylinders during highway cruising. This technology is currently featured on GM's Chevy Impala sedan and several 2006 sport-utilities and trucks.
The unveiling was a story in itself as a local marching band led the way for a parade of classic Camaros that snaked through a massive crowd of journalists who lined up early for a good seat.
Make no mistake: We would love to build this car. I would love to have one in my garage. But we cannot commit to it just yet. Circumstances dictate that we have other priorities that come first. For now, we’ll just enjoy what we have, and find out what everybody thinks about it, and we’ll make a final decision on it at our earliest opportunity.
01-10-2006, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Transam kid 01
Understandable, which is why i said 400hp...the corvette LS2 puts out more than that...and a tuned down one is a GTO....so why choke it more...if even possible? And i dont see what other engines GM could use....they cant go to an LS1, and they cant do too much to go into vette territory....so 400hp+ is realistic IMO
01-10-2006, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bascho
I thought the regular C6 was 400hp....I haven't checked in a while, but I thought the GTO has the exact same engine as the normal C6 Vette. I agree the LS1 probably will not be used. Remember, the estimated release is 2009....GM could be working on a different powerplant for future V8 powered coupes and sedans in order to keep the unit cost down. You also have to consider what gas prices may be in 2009......$3.80-$4.00 per gallon??? I don't doubt GM's ability to make this car everything Camaro lovers would dream for. I am just being a realist......and I think GM is also
01-10-2006, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Transam kid 01
Gas prices cannot be predicted...but still...look at my post above...at the MPG
30mpg......yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. In 2008 the EPA is changing the MPG testing that is done in order to correct for misrepresention of fuel economy by automakers. I bet that figure will drop by the time 2009 rolls around.
The window sticker from my RX8 shows 23mpg on the highway.....hahaha!
Last edited by bascho; 01-10-2006 at 04:31 PM.
01-10-2006, 05:00 PM
#142
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Originally Posted by bascho
How do you figure? Are you honesty telling me that you cannot predict that fuel will be more expensive in 2009?
30mpg......yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. In 2008 the EPA is changing the MPG testing that is done in order to correct for misrepresention of fuel economy by automakers. I bet that figure will drop by the time 2009 rolls around.
The window sticker from my RX8 shows 23mpg on the highway.....hahaha!
30mpg......yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. In 2008 the EPA is changing the MPG testing that is done in order to correct for misrepresention of fuel economy by automakers. I bet that figure will drop by the time 2009 rolls around.
The window sticker from my RX8 shows 23mpg on the highway.....hahaha!
and im say, it may not go to 2.80, you never kno how gas will fluxuate years ahead of time...just like the economy etc
01-10-2006, 05:04 PM
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I can see it now when 2009 rolls around, the very few people that can afford the LS2 powered SS will be lost in the sea of 200-220hp 3.9l V6 base model Camaros. same predicament as the Stangs. The market will be oversaturated soon with all these new muscle cars coming out.
Last edited by playdoh43; 01-10-2006 at 05:07 PM.
01-10-2006, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by playdoh43
I can see it now when 2009 rolls around, the very few people that can afford the LS2 powered SS will be lost in the sea of 200-220hp 3.9l V6 base model Camaros. same predicament as the Stangs. The market will be oversaturated soon with all these new muscle cars coming out.
01-10-2006, 05:50 PM
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take a look outside, mustangs are everywhere these days. theres like what, 15 v6 mustangs to every mustang GT? GM is not stupid, they are trying to place the camaro to take a bite out of that market segment. The V6 mustang starts at 19k, thats why its so popular and Ford makes tons of money from it. GM will try to do the same with the Camaro by having an affordable base model. Then a SS version with the LS2 in it. Remember, GM is trying to make money, not just to please a few car enthusiasts. a 30k+ muscle car wont be very profitable. chances are the base model will dominate the sales over the SS just like how it is with Mustang vs Mustang GTs
Last edited by playdoh43; 01-10-2006 at 05:52 PM.
01-10-2006, 05:56 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by playdoh43
take a look outside, mustangs are everywhere these days. theres like what, 15 v6 mustangs to every mustang GT? GM is not stupid, they are trying to place the camaro to take a bite out of that market segment. The V6 mustang starts at 19k, thats why its so popular and Ford makes tons of money from it. GM will try to do the same with the Camaro by having an affordable base model. Then a SS version with the LS2 in it. Remember, GM is trying to make money, not just to please a few car enthusiasts. a 30k+ muscle car wont be very profitable. chances are the base model will dominate the sales over the SS just like how it is with Mustang vs Mustang GTs
01-10-2006, 06:05 PM
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Here is an idea...
V6 (I hear they are making a new 3.5L)
5.3L V8 (The one in the Impalla SS) tuned to make 330HP) This is the Z28
6L V8 400HP (The SS version)
20K V6 250HP RS
25K V8 330HP Z28
33K V8 400HP SS
This sounds very reasonable...
V6 (I hear they are making a new 3.5L)
5.3L V8 (The one in the Impalla SS) tuned to make 330HP) This is the Z28
6L V8 400HP (The SS version)
20K V6 250HP RS
25K V8 330HP Z28
33K V8 400HP SS
This sounds very reasonable...
01-10-2006, 06:12 PM
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whatever the case it is with the V8s, they are going to be very few in between compared to the large amount of V6 base models that will be on the road. and of course theyd make a V6, like I said transAm kid, your perspective is from that of a car enthusiast. Thats not necessarily how a profit maximizing company thinks, they are trying to make money, and the V6 is where the money is at. Once you get over the $30k range it gets really competitive.
01-10-2006, 06:18 PM
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Yup^, that's why a 250HP V6 would give respectable performance while if it was me...I'd end up with the 5.3L (if there would be one) and just tune that sucker to SS levels...lol.