snizzle

Hmmm, interesting concept. I see the Vette and GT being close competitors right now though despite the price. I read a rumor that the GT is at the end of its' run and won't be produced anymore, any truth to that? If so, I think a new T-bird would be awesome as they could have done a much better job with the old one.

bascho

Actually, the 4.6 in the Cobra is a DOHC. no biggie though. But yes, to overcome the difference in displacement, they had to use a S/C.....but I think that's fair. They could have chosen to use the 5.4 and use the a DOHC system and still made 380hp easy....but that is not an engine they developed back then. I do think that we'll see more use of the 5.4 if GM does bring the Camaro out in '09. Perhaps the Mustang will get the GT500's 5.4 iron block without the S/C, sold as a MACH1, and the GT500 will get the FORD GT's aluminum block and keep the S/C. Just a guess though

bascho

I don't think the comparison is fair between the Vette and the FORD GT. The ZO6 is pretty close to the same performance as the GT on the street....but the GT is a track car. It was bred to compete with Ferrari's.....on a track with racing conditions, the ZO6 will not match well. I can tell you that the FORD GT was intended to be produced for only a few years. Ford also wants to bring out the GR1 and/or the Cobra concept for the next run of supercar. We'll see which is next

snizzle

I never said they had the 5.4 back then but just that there is a reason they upped the displacement. Oops, my mistake... DOHC is correct on the Cobra. I think we'll see them use the 5.4 more as well. Displacement is king in this segment.

snizzle

I think it's a pretty fair comparison, but that's my opinion. What makes you think the Z06 can't compete on a track under racing conditions?

playdoh43

I think Z06 is a very capable track car and very competitive, it might not be as great as a Ferrari F430, but it should hold its own very well. Gan-san from BMI drove the Ford GT and his impression seems to be that its not on ferrari's level either. Z06 vs ford GT should be pretty close with edge in favor of the GT. I dont think they are in different leagues.

rx8wannahave

Bascho...yeah, why do you think that? I think on track or plain old power they both are virtual dead locked. Where the Z06 is better than the GT is in regards to price, while I understand your aim was not really at the Z06.

I'm just asking because from all I've seen the Z06 just kicks butt big time, at all levels.

bascho

They did have the 5.4 back then...it was used for trucks though. They really should have figured out how to fit it into the Mustang.....and had the Camaro been around for 2003/4, I think we would have seen that. I know that as soon as GM heard about the 4.6 S/C for 2003, they would have done something to beef-up the SS...and by 2004, the Mustang would have had to have a 5.4 to compete. But......none of that happened....so the Cobra only needed the 4.6 to compete with itself in 2004.

I really do hope GM brings the Camaro to market. Nothing spurs increases in performance like some good competition

bascho

I didn't says that its not a great track car....but the Viper is more it's league. The GT is competition for Ferrari. Not my opinion....it's the truth. If the ZO6 and GT were on the same level....wouldn't their prices be more comparable?

Don't get me wrong, I think that the ZO6 is the best performance car you can get for the money....hands down.

bascho

When Motor Trend did their comparison of the Viper, ZO6 and GT, they clearly stated that the ZO6 and Viper were very close competition to the GT....but not in the same league. They admitted several times that during the test the new GT they originally wanted to test had a broken bolt on the half-shaft flange and that they had to use a Ford Test Mule with 40,000 miles on it for the track portion. They admitted several times the 'new' GT would have beaten the Vette in every area of the testing on the track. Tire size was also a factor, Ford uses to narrow a tire for that much power Had the tire size been equal, that would have further emphasized the GT's race track heritage.

You guys are missing my point. I love the ZO6 and dream of owning one in the next 5-8 years I was just saying that a $160K supercar should not be compared to a $70K sportscar. No disrespect was intended to the very impressive ZO6.

snizzle

Oh, so it's the same 5.4 that was used in the trucks then? Ya learn something new everyday.

I hope GM brings something to the market other than the GTO as well to compete with the Mustang. Hopefully they can get something out before 2009 though.

snizzle

I just can't agree with you on this one. The Z06 is as much in the same league performance wise as most exotics that cost 2-3-4 times as much. If by same league, you mean similiar cost and buyers then I could agree with that statement.

snizzle

I love both cars and I think they are both terrific so no disrespect to the GT either.

So you're saying that these cars can't be compared from a performance standpoint because one costs more than twice as much?

bascho

I guess it sounds like I am saying that....but that is not what I mean. I guess I am unable to convey my thoughts correctly. I guess you have to tear the skin off of both of these cars to really see what I'm talking about. Let's just take the suspension for a moment, if you look at the suspension system of the GT, it looks like it is straight out of a GT class race car...hence Ford's use of the name GT. If you look at the suspension for the ZO6.....well, let's just say that there is nothing that different than the C6. Yes, the suspension is really well suited to this car....but it is not a race car IMO. I am sure that the ZO6 will be raced in the GT class, but with major changes to just about every stock system. But that is not the case with the GT.....it is already at that level. Am I getting my thought out a little better?

I have seen people mod SN95 Mustangs to be able to perform the same as a ZO6.....but does that mean that the 3-4 year old Mustang is in the same catagory as a ZO6? I guess I am trying to say that it's more than having performance #'s that are pretty close in a 60 minute track test, it's about the sophistication of the design and the advanced materials that are only available when your dropping serious $$$ down.

maybe I should just give up on this thought :/

rx8wannahave

Blasphemy...Johsoooooonnn, your fired...lol

Well you exlained some more, I don't agree...but that's fine...we both own the RX8 so all is forgiven...lol.

bascho

Fair enough

runningnorthRX-8

I beat a SS recently. I was in a dedicated 2-lane left turn light( I had the inside lane. ) A red SS pulled up and started revving it up for a race. I figured he would just hook up and pass me, but he had too much wheel spin, and I was able to lauch my car a second sooner than he-this was all I needed to get to the corner first, and block him from passing. He almost lost control at the corner entry and gave it up by the time I got to the highway ramp(a very sharp right. ) The SS can't hang with the 8 in sharp turns...you can beat one under conditions like this...

sstricker

FYI: STREET RACING IS POINTLESS... you say he almost lost control??? and for what? who cares if he/she is faster... at least we have the better looking car!!!!

Ike

I'm with you Bascho, especially since I've driven a C5 Z06 and a couple of those more expensive exotic type cars that it could match on the track. The numbers on the track may be similar but the driving experience doesn't compare. It's hard to explain, it's something you feel, the Z06 just lacks the soul or many cars that are its equal to numbers on paper (This is the C5 but from what I've read about the C6 it has a similar feel but is faster). I'm sure many RX-8 owners can understand that. I'm not putting down the Z06 in the least, it's a remarkable car for the money, but if it were the same price as some of those cars that it's as fast as but are 2 to 3x as much it would be at the back of the pack in a comparison.

Ike

Thanks for following up his pointless street racing story with something that's purely subjective...

sstricker

you see ike... the last part of that was meant to lighten the first part... it's ok though... after all... opinions are like ********.

go ahead and laugh it off. no need to get ugly.

Ike

Sorry if it came across as ugly, I just get tired of people pulling the looks card, on this and every other freaking car site. More people bought the Pontiac Aztek per year than the RX-8, to most of them I bet they think their car looks better than an RX-8.

sstricker

dear god let's hope not........ lol

ps... no problem.

Design1stCode2nd

Appearance is an amazing subjective quality, Ike is probably right on the Aztec a large majority think it’s the ugliest design in the past 30 years and I’m one of the but some probably think it looks great. The car industry is filled with odd designs; some appeal more to a larger population than others. The xB for instance, is a milk carton on wheels but some people love it. I found the Toyota F3R concept to be great but a huge number of people hated it.

The Camaro concept to me looks really good, I’d change a few things but not too much. Some will hate it and love the Challenger Concept. To me the Challenger is too retro looking whereas the Camaro looks new with a nod at the past, to me as it should be.

snizzle

There is no chance. I doubt both were in the consideration set at time of purchase.