370Z vs RX-8 ...let us hear it from owners of both cars
08-13-2009, 08:55 AM
#151
3.2 Liter Inline Sex
The 8 coming out in front was never my point of discussion. Similar cars and often times dissimilar cars that should not come out in front do for a multitude of reasons. Namely, driver skill and execution.
My point was merely that a vehicle with questionable components that prevent it from performing up to it's "sports car" label is unfortunate. I do not know of this personally, but apparently the Z has a few of these issues.
My analogies were specifically related to road racing where you are not merley concerned with setting the fastest lap time and going home. Road racing is an exercise in consistency in both driving skill/execution and vehicle performance for a extended period. When engaging in this particular endeavor you cannot afford to have your equipment be unreliable. Either fix it, uprade it or replace it.
We really don't have a disagreement here...we are not even talking about the same thing. I can certainly agree with all your points given your particular perspective.
My point was merely that a vehicle with questionable components that prevent it from performing up to it's "sports car" label is unfortunate. I do not know of this personally, but apparently the Z has a few of these issues.
My analogies were specifically related to road racing where you are not merley concerned with setting the fastest lap time and going home. Road racing is an exercise in consistency in both driving skill/execution and vehicle performance for a extended period. When engaging in this particular endeavor you cannot afford to have your equipment be unreliable. Either fix it, uprade it or replace it.
We really don't have a disagreement here...we are not even talking about the same thing. I can certainly agree with all your points given your particular perspective.
Last edited by Kevo; 08-13-2009 at 11:12 AM.
08-13-2009, 11:48 AM
#152
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Sorry, but get a faster car and you will know the stress it adds to any car. There are only so much you can do on a stock street car, they are all made with compromises. Slower cars will always last longer, that's the nature of tracking cars. A Ferrari F550 will overheat the tires and brakes if driven HARD at the track too, brakes can only be so big and material can only be so soft on a street car. Remember the laws of physics apply to any track cars. Most sports cars carry roughly the same speed through the corners, so add extra 10-30mph at the end of each straight away. What do you think will happen to the brakes? It's just common sense. As I said, ask any national caliber drivers and see what their responses are. If you can run a set of street tires at the same pace for 30 minutes straight, chances are that you are not going fast enough.
Long story short Tmak is the car shouldnt be the weakest link... the driver should... and the fact that some people have to slow down because of this problem with the brakes is just poor craftsmanship or w.e. you would like to call it. The 8 may have far more regular maintenance than the 370Z but it still holds together better in my opinion and the fact that we are still arguing is because we all ( idk about you) love the 8 and mostly because of the unique Rotary engine thats completely different than any piston engine. When I drive my 8 i see other 8s pass me and wave or rev or flash their lights, its a brother hood homie heh not just a regular car... Rotary>Pistons... and yes in my opinion the 8 is alot more solid car than the 370Z, no break problems or overheating problems at all... and if we are going to get into actually race cars lets remember how good the 8's do at Le mans etc. and in the top 10 you'll see 8s, if not in first very close behind... im done...
08-13-2009, 12:14 PM
#153
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You were the one that was trashing the car about how it is not reliable this and that, but as far as I know, I am the only person that had ever suffered a direct mechanical failure in a Z car. The overheating issue can happen to any cars, especially fast ones. I agree they can address the issue by adding an oil cooler, but it is definitely not enough to qualify them as bad cars. The ice mode is a known issue to a lot of fast cars, you just have to get used to it. Also it is more of an annoyence in autox rather than track days.
The fact remains that you can run a 370z or a C6 at 85% pace and still be fast enough to keep up with a RX-8 at full pace. It's not a knock to the RX-8, but the 370z and C6 are in a different class. The 350z can outpace the RX-8, what makes you think it can keep up with the 370Z?
It's one thing if you like to select your RX-8 as your car, but there is no need to bad mouth others. Some people like fat chicks, some people don't. I have owned a bunch of sports cars and tracked a bunch of them, I think I can speak with a little less bias.....
The fact remains that you can run a 370z or a C6 at 85% pace and still be fast enough to keep up with a RX-8 at full pace. It's not a knock to the RX-8, but the 370z and C6 are in a different class. The 350z can outpace the RX-8, what makes you think it can keep up with the 370Z?
It's one thing if you like to select your RX-8 as your car, but there is no need to bad mouth others. Some people like fat chicks, some people don't. I have owned a bunch of sports cars and tracked a bunch of them, I think I can speak with a little less bias.....
Ahh! Finally I see where you're coming from and our near total disconnect in this discussion. We're not even close to discussing the same activity here.
You're focused on simply getting the best lap time, coming out 1st in time trials, etc. After that "What's the point? Why stress the car after it's done its all however briefly?" as you say "...if the ultimate goal of getting the top time is reached." Get the medal, win the race, vanquish all opponents....
My goals with the 8 have little (really nothing) to do with that philosophy whatsoever. My vision in taking my 8 to the track is to give myself the most personal enjoyment in driving the car for the longest possible time. The longer the better. There are alot of analogies I won't bother with here. But I would say just driving and dancing through the twists and turns of a good track in a perfectly balanced way is one of ther most enjoyable things possible I've ever found to do. The RX-8 becomes an exoskeleton of a sort, giving me the ability to do superhuman things
And really, as long as the car would cooperate as the 8 does, another car might do, but it's not about winning or getting the lowest lap time, etc. That's what I've been trying to communicate was my problem with the 370Z - it's not a suitable dance partner for my needs!
If it weren't for my own phyisical limits, and the amount of gas I got through, I'd probably keep going indefinitely just for the simple joy of it.
You're focused on simply getting the best lap time, coming out 1st in time trials, etc. After that "What's the point? Why stress the car after it's done its all however briefly?" as you say "...if the ultimate goal of getting the top time is reached." Get the medal, win the race, vanquish all opponents....
My goals with the 8 have little (really nothing) to do with that philosophy whatsoever. My vision in taking my 8 to the track is to give myself the most personal enjoyment in driving the car for the longest possible time. The longer the better. There are alot of analogies I won't bother with here. But I would say just driving and dancing through the twists and turns of a good track in a perfectly balanced way is one of ther most enjoyable things possible I've ever found to do. The RX-8 becomes an exoskeleton of a sort, giving me the ability to do superhuman things
And really, as long as the car would cooperate as the 8 does, another car might do, but it's not about winning or getting the lowest lap time, etc. That's what I've been trying to communicate was my problem with the 370Z - it's not a suitable dance partner for my needs!
If it weren't for my own phyisical limits, and the amount of gas I got through, I'd probably keep going indefinitely just for the simple joy of it.
08-13-2009, 01:01 PM
#154
Momentum Keeps Me Going
tmak your what is called a piece of work. Although you profess so much knowledge of driving on track, you have a unique fascination with "street this" and "street that". You try to convince that "really powerful sports cars can't run more than a few laps", that "there's no point to just driving around after you've 'proven' you can drive a fast hotlap".
I spoken with many many track people over many many years - with cars that cost anywhere to $250,000 to $2,500, and I've never heard the justifications and fractured theories you subscribe to. You, however, seem to profess to know all and can judge the worth of others opinions too.
Well, please, simply have at it, or at least have at it in short distances with your cars that are too good and too fast to be able to handle the forces that they unleash.
With whom ever you track and where ever that may be, I wish you luck, and I hope I'm not anywhere around! One day you're going to need your self proclaimed great 'street car' to do something whilst out on the edge and it just might let you down because you 'stressed it out' beyond it's god-given capabilites, laws of physics and all that, you understand.
Bye bye now....
I spoken with many many track people over many many years - with cars that cost anywhere to $250,000 to $2,500, and I've never heard the justifications and fractured theories you subscribe to. You, however, seem to profess to know all and can judge the worth of others opinions too.
Well, please, simply have at it, or at least have at it in short distances with your cars that are too good and too fast to be able to handle the forces that they unleash.
With whom ever you track and where ever that may be, I wish you luck, and I hope I'm not anywhere around! One day you're going to need your self proclaimed great 'street car' to do something whilst out on the edge and it just might let you down because you 'stressed it out' beyond it's god-given capabilites, laws of physics and all that, you understand.
Bye bye now....
08-13-2009, 02:17 PM
#155
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Here is the difference between you and I. I have owned and driven high and low hp/big and small car on track (specifically z and rx8). I think I know enough to backup what I said. Since it is the same driver, I don't know if the drivers' factor is as big as comparing the events you are in vs. what I am in.
You don't have to like what I said, but I have done many 30 min sessions in my z car. The engine never quit on mè, I slow my pace after reaching the limit of tires and brakes. Even in conservative mode, I can still lap just as fast as my rx8. They are all facts because I owned and drove all those cars. I don't even have too be an expert as I have the lap timer and video to support my findings.
Why do you think best motoring only run 5 laps on their test. most cars are also spaced out by then
You don't have to like what I said, but I have done many 30 min sessions in my z car. The engine never quit on mè, I slow my pace after reaching the limit of tires and brakes. Even in conservative mode, I can still lap just as fast as my rx8. They are all facts because I owned and drove all those cars. I don't even have too be an expert as I have the lap timer and video to support my findings.
Why do you think best motoring only run 5 laps on their test. most cars are also spaced out by then
tmak your what is called a piece of work. Although you profess so much knowledge of driving on track, you have a unique fascination with "street this" and "street that". You try to convince that "really powerful sports cars can't run more than a few laps", that "there's no point to just driving around after you've 'proven' you can drive a fast hotlap".
I spoken with many many track people over many many years - with cars that cost anywhere to $250,000 to $2,500, and I've never heard the justifications and fractured theories you subscribe to. You, however, seem to profess to know all and can judge the worth of others opinions too.
Well, please, simply have at it, or at least have at it in short distances with your cars that are too good and too fast to be able to handle the forces that they unleash.
With whom ever you track and where ever that may be, I wish you luck, and I hope I'm not anywhere around! One day you're going to need your self proclaimed great 'street car' to do something whilst out on the edge and it just might let you down because you 'stressed it out' beyond it's god-given capabilites, laws of physics and all that, you understand.
Bye bye now....
I spoken with many many track people over many many years - with cars that cost anywhere to $250,000 to $2,500, and I've never heard the justifications and fractured theories you subscribe to. You, however, seem to profess to know all and can judge the worth of others opinions too.
Well, please, simply have at it, or at least have at it in short distances with your cars that are too good and too fast to be able to handle the forces that they unleash.
With whom ever you track and where ever that may be, I wish you luck, and I hope I'm not anywhere around! One day you're going to need your self proclaimed great 'street car' to do something whilst out on the edge and it just might let you down because you 'stressed it out' beyond it's god-given capabilites, laws of physics and all that, you understand.
Bye bye now....
08-17-2009, 08:10 AM
#156
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Here is the difference between you and I. I have owned and driven high and low hp/big and small car on track (specifically z and rx8). I think I know enough to backup what I said. Since it is the same driver, I don't know if the drivers' factor is as big as comparing the events you are in vs. what I am in.
You don't have to like what I said, but I have done many 30 min sessions in my z car. The engine never quit on mè, I slow my pace after reaching the limit of tires and brakes. Even in conservative mode, I can still lap just as fast as my rx8. They are all facts because I owned and drove all those cars. I don't even have too be an expert as I have the lap timer and video to support my findings.
Why do you think best motoring only run 5 laps on their test. most cars are also spaced out by then
You don't have to like what I said, but I have done many 30 min sessions in my z car. The engine never quit on mè, I slow my pace after reaching the limit of tires and brakes. Even in conservative mode, I can still lap just as fast as my rx8. They are all facts because I owned and drove all those cars. I don't even have too be an expert as I have the lap timer and video to support my findings.
Why do you think best motoring only run 5 laps on their test. most cars are also spaced out by then
So your whole point is to win the time trial? Win the pole and win the race?
can i haz sum peeze?
08-17-2009, 02:47 PM
#158
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You must have missed the ones about how some people are spreading rumors that the Z cars are not track ready when the fact is that they can easily beat the RX-8 and not many Z cars have suffered from track related issues. They might have to back off after a few laps, but the fact is that they are still faster car and they don't break like some people have claimed they do. You can short shift a 370z and still beat the RX-8....
08-17-2009, 06:15 PM
#159
Huge hole is huge
OK, I'm not going to jump into the middle of this argument, but tmak's spouting the same 3 things over and over. "I have raced a lot, you have to back off after a couple of laps, and short shifting beats the RX8".
Thanks, you've done your job. Please quit reiterating. For people who are actually reading for information, reading those points a million times is getting old.
Thanks, you've done your job. Please quit reiterating. For people who are actually reading for information, reading those points a million times is getting old.
08-17-2009, 06:32 PM
#160
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I also own a turbo 350z and a NA RX8 but stock for stock the 350z might be slightly better on tracks but only certain tracks but the rx8 is still superior in just simply controling the car better in most situations but not by much in my opinion. I sometimes don't think it is fair to compare the two but the 350z is faster and can handle pretty good at the same time and the rx8 can handle good but not enough power for me personally on tracks with good straights or wide turns. 
As for the 370z( buying one in 2 years) that car does out perform the 8 stock.
As for the 370z( buying one in 2 years) that car does out perform the 8 stock.
Last edited by bhop; 08-17-2009 at 07:03 PM.
08-17-2009, 09:47 PM
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OK, I'm not going to jump into the middle of this argument, but tmak's spouting the same 3 things over and over. "I have raced a lot, you have to back off after a couple of laps, and short shifting beats the RX8".
Thanks, you've done your job. Please quit reiterating. For people who are actually reading for information, reading those points a million times is getting old.
Thanks, you've done your job. Please quit reiterating. For people who are actually reading for information, reading those points a million times is getting old.
#1 The RX-8 is not faster
#2 The term reliable is relative as I have never seen many falling apart due to tracking
#3 Yes they do overheat faster (from brakes to engine oil temp), but it's not like they are a moving wreck on the track.
I don't lean one way or another when it comes to cars, the truth and the facts are all I care about.
08-17-2009, 10:50 PM
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its sad we are reduced to repeating the same things over and over.
I def agree with tmak's points though, but this whole thread is just people restating same points over and over. spin9k stated like 500000 times that the z will break down after a few laps and explode on impact
I say we just all get along, theres nothing that needs to be said thats not said already.
I def agree with tmak's points though, but this whole thread is just people restating same points over and over. spin9k stated like 500000 times that the z will break down after a few laps and explode on impact
I say we just all get along, theres nothing that needs to be said thats not said already.
Last edited by playdoh43; 08-17-2009 at 11:45 PM.
08-27-2009, 09:16 AM
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Agreed that its a dumb thread...but I have driven a 350z...it didnt feel like a car making close to 300horses. I raced my friend in his the other day...I had 4 people in the car with me and he could barely beat me. He's probably a horrible driver...but that goes to show how slight the advantages are.
08-27-2009, 09:19 AM
#168
Huge hole is huge
Agreed that its a dumb thread...but I have driven a 350z...it didnt feel like a car making close to 300horses. I raced my friend in his the other day...I had 4 people in the car with me and he could barely beat me. He's probably a horrible driver...but that goes to show how slight the advantages are.
08-29-2009, 08:30 PM
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Agreed that its a dumb thread...but I have driven a 350z...it didnt feel like a car making close to 300horses. I raced my friend in his the other day...I had 4 people in the car with me and he could barely beat me. He's probably a horrible driver...but that goes to show how slight the advantages are.
I am at the track now, my RX-8 is 4+ sec slower than my old 350z on virtually the same Toyo tires and same brake pads. I am still learning the new ride, but there is no way it can make up anywhere close to that gap. There is a slightly modded RX-8 out here that is running 1-2 sec faster than my stock one, but there is no 4-5 seconds in it to make up the difference over 3+ miles.
Here is the proof http://img503.imageshack.us/i/350rx8.pdf/
I drove the 370z on track last month, it is faster than my old 350. So I am not sure how a RX-8 can keep up? Autox maybe...
I am a realistic, not some fanboy or hater. I don't care one way or another, just care about the truth.
08-29-2009, 10:54 PM
#171
Call me ROTO BAGGINS
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Every single time I see a 370Z, it just gets uglier and uglier. That's obviously just my personal opinion, but I can't see putting down that much cash for a car that I don't enjoy looking at.
My RX8 is faster than I have ever needed it to be, and every time I load up more than just my girlfriend in it to go somewhere, I am extremely satisfied with my decision to take it over the Z. In my experience with the Z, it just doesn't have much personality. Again, totally my opinion.
Also, since I'm no longer a high school sophomore, I'm just not impressed with acceleration in a straight line until it hits 4 flat or quicker.
My RX8 is the most fun car I've ever driven, except maybe my uncle's Carrera 4. I certainly liked it a lot more than the Z I test drove.
My RX8 is faster than I have ever needed it to be, and every time I load up more than just my girlfriend in it to go somewhere, I am extremely satisfied with my decision to take it over the Z. In my experience with the Z, it just doesn't have much personality. Again, totally my opinion.
Also, since I'm no longer a high school sophomore, I'm just not impressed with acceleration in a straight line until it hits 4 flat or quicker.
My RX8 is the most fun car I've ever driven, except maybe my uncle's Carrera 4. I certainly liked it a lot more than the Z I test drove.
08-30-2009, 12:26 AM
#173
Super Moderator
08-30-2009, 12:42 AM
#174
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Clarkson's final words between the two...." That (350Z) is 2000 pounds more (to purchase) and wears you out to drive, where as this (Red RX-8) is more practical and more fun to drive.... that is a very,VERY good car."
08-30-2009, 01:41 AM
#175
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I've never seen so many RX-8 fanbois group together haha. This thread is hilarious. Although imho this forum is beginning to become like other car forums. What happened to the members who actually spoke logic than just say "THE RX8 IS AWESOME".
Last edited by fobjr101; 08-30-2009 at 01:44 AM.