DreRX8

Well--look at how the G35Coupe and Z exist--at close to the same price point. The RX8 would be the G35 and the RX7 would be the Z. If they price the new RX7 at a $30K base price then I believe they could still make a profit, especially if parts are shared--I know in my case the rear seats are a real advantage over the Z and a main reason why I didn't get a Z.

jsh1120

I doubt seriously that it would make sense from a marketing standpoint to price an RX-7 between a Miata and an RX-8. There is simply too little room between the price of a loaded Miata and a base RX-8; an RX-7 would steal sales from each.

More likely, imho, is a high performance two-seater priced above the RX-8 in the $35-$40K range, making it a budget-priced exotic. A couple of hundred pounds lighter than the RX-8 with better low end torque and premium components (e.g. Brembos, MS-level suspension components, etc.) Think Mazda Elise.

I doubt Mazda would need to make much profit on the model especially for a limited volume; its purpose would be as a "halo" model to draw customers to the showroom and sell (more practical) RX-8's and (less expensive) Miatas. Not to mention the halo effect on the MS piston models (MS6 and MS3) where, I suspect, the profit margin is significant.

They'd probably have to offer a roadster (a challenge in the weight department) as well as a super-light fixed roof two-seater. That suggests the need for forced induction of some kind and not simply work in the weight department.

Can't speak to the engineering issues; it's not my field. But I'd bet the farm that the engine would be the Renesis with little change. Too expensive to do anything else. I'd also bet on super- rather than turbo-charging simply beause of the greater potential it offers in terms of low end torque and the market pressure from other supercharged models now available.

So, for those hoping that an RX-7 would be less expensive than an RX-8, I doubt it. For those hoping that the RX-8 would benefit significantly from features on an RX-7 (e.g. turbo or supercharging), that's a closer call, but I suspect that the need to differentiate the "7" and "8" as well the desire as to constrain the price of the "8" might work against such technology sharing.

PaulieWalnuts

$35-$40K is too much. People will dump $40K on a Camry with a Lexus badge or an SUV but not on a Mazda. The last RX-7 was a budget exotic and the people with those budgets were buying BMWs and other upper end rides, not RX-7s

It should have pricing similar to what Nissan did with the 350Z and G35. So it should overlap with the RX-8 pricing and probably be a bit higher.

shelleys_man_06

Wrong. The ES330 or whatever is a completely different car than the Camry. Toyota just uses a similar platform. You can find out for yourself on Toyota's Japan page.

As for using forced induction as a factory option, though appealing to young buyers, is not really a viable option in the long run. I'm still an advocate of a larger displacement rotary engine. I think it would be in Mazda's best interest. It's been a very long time since Mazda has made any changes. I don't blame them, since their rotary engine program was down to about 6 people by the end of the 1990's. However, since it's back in full swing, it's time to explore greater options in designing rotary engines, especially with the advent of better materials, design tools, etc. Factory forced induction is an awesome idea, but I'm still reluctant to say whether it is a good choice for a rotary engine. I'll sit this one out until the MS6, MS3, whatever comes out. Mazda is making some moves.

DreRX8

[QUOTE=The last RX-7 was a budget exotic and the people with those budgets were buying BMWs and other upper end rides, not RX-7s
QUOTE]

That is only half true--the true demise of the 3rd Gen was practicality and insurance cost--coupled with the high price caused by the weakening dollar versus the Yen. These reasons caused the demise of all of the previous Japanese sports cars. Those that wanted them and could afford them also needed more room.

PaulieWalnuts

If that's true they must have changed that for 2004 or 2005. I recently saw a Camry and Lexus (ES?) together and minus badges and interior, they were identical.

RX-Hachi

[QUOTE=DreRX8]I agree, I'm a living example. I bought my 3rd Gen new in '93, the car we bought my wife at the time was a BMW 535i. I traded my FC 2nd Gen for the FD 3rd gen. I loved the FD RX-7 like no other car, but its unreliability, poor build quality (especially compared to my BMWs), and mainly due to the lack of back seats, forced me to sell it after my kids were born. Funny, my wife now drives a BMW 540 and of course I have an RX-8.

jsh1120

You might be correct about the (lack of) appeal of an upscale (pricewise) Mazda, but if you are, I doubt we'll see an RX-7 since I don't believe that Mazda will cannabalize their Miata and RX-8 sales to promote a model that could be cross-shoped so easily.

The analogy to the 350Z and G35 is not, imho, quite on target. Although Nissan collects the revenue from both Nissan and Infiniti brands, very few (no?) dealers do. The G35, while a hottie, appeals to a very different market than the 350Z, I think. Not so with the RX-7 and RX-8.

I could be wrong, of course, both on Mazda's strategy and its likely success. Hell, the Edsel, the Apple Lisa, and Sony Betamax looked like winners to me.

jsh1120

I've already noted that my engineering credentials are non-existent, but I'd be surprised if Mazda (and their overlords at Ford) are interested in significant additional development (and tooling) work on the Renesis until the investment already made pays for itself.

I assume when you say "a larger displacement rotary engine" you're referring to additional rotors. True? I'm under the impression that making the combustion chambers larger is not a viable strategy based on the shape of the chamber and the resulting issues associated with combustion.

In any event, whether the strategy is to increase displacement by adding rotors or making bigger rotors, I suspect that the development and tooling costs for an RX-7 would be prohibitive. Again, please forgive any engineering ignorance this view exposes.

RX-Hachi

Like Shaolin said, I think what might nudge Mazda to bring back a pure (near supercar) sports car is Honda's next gen NSX, Toyota's next supercar (or Supra maybe) and Nissan's new GT-R. Mazda seems to be just toying with the RX-7, letting their skunk work team of rotary diehards work after hours and during lunch breaks on the project. But I could see if Honda, Toyata, and Nissan all bring out near supercars in the $50-100K range and they meet some degree of sales success, Mazda could decide to bring back the RX-7 (or call it the RX-9) at around $45K-ish with equal or better performance vs. its more pricey rivals. (Exactly what they did with the 3rd Gen.)

It would certainly be a niche car (like the NSX), and I don't think Mazda would expect huge sales. But it would be an image car for the company. If it shares enough RX-8 parts and the RX-8 continues to sell well, then that could be enough to sustain a niche RX-7/9 type of pure sports car.

s13lover

I would be happy with placing a new RX-7 as Mazda's entry level sports car, below the Miata. Make the car a successor to the best selling RX-7, the 1st gen. Price the car in the $15k to $20k range and it will sell like crazy. There are so many fwd pocket rockets in this price range right now that if Mazda brings a rwd competitor to that market it would be a success while not stepping on the toes of RX-8 sales. Plus, the idea of making a new RX-7 a $40K halo car means that Mazda would be touting it as an FD successor. Many people would have serious problems with this unless that new RX-7 was dead on in terms of performance and styling. To many, the FD was simply perfect.

I've said the same sort of this about a new 240SX. Sub $20k fwd sports cars are having huge sales success right now but no one is selling an rwd car in this market. The popularity of the 240SX is greater that ever, so Nissan really should bring a new one to market. Many want the car to be more powerful and have better standard equipment like an lsd (read: a Silvia for the states). But if that would happen, then the new 240SX would fall right on top of the 350Z market.

I just really want a nice rwd sports car that is affordable. Japan really needs to build something to fill this market gap that only the Mustang now fills.

PaulieWalnuts

You have a good point and I do think an entry level sports car would do well. The 1979 RX-7 was meant as an entry level sports car and I believe started at around $7,000. I didn't do the math but that probably would come close to Miata pricing today. Relaunching the RX-7 as a sub $20K car probably wouldn't be a good idea. Maybe a new entry level model like an RX-6 would be good approach.