GM makes almost ZERO profit on car sales - their relatively small profit (compared to tiny Honda or Nissan) comes from their finance arm.
You speak of "numerous awards for quality and excellence for almost every category of cars produced" so name some. Particularly awards for any vehicles in the following brands:
1. Saturn
2. Chevrolet
3. Pontiac
4. Buick
5. Oldsmobile
6. Hummer

Personally I think that Cadillac is the only GM brand that might do well as a whole (i.e. good across all vehicles in the brand), although other brands have individual cars that might be good to excellent (GTO, C6 Corvette respectively). Based on the fact that GM cannot make any money from building and selling cars and is losing market share every year I also think that GM is in trouble and has been for decades. Did you know that Toyota sells more cars than GM in the USA (I am excluding trucks and SUVs) and makes a profit doing so.

 

Go check top producers and money making car companies for 2003. You'll see GM hit first mark. You down others cars and have nothing to back it up. You define trolling on other cars. Just because of a bad experience.

I own a toyota Solara also but the stats show GM making the most profit last year. It was also on the news. Gm is doing very well with a lot better reliability and sales in the past 3 years.

 

Ok, now I know that if I am gonna take a car to some far off road place, it better not break down in this remote place and leave me there with only my cell phone. I can understand having a car break down on a road, but breaking down in say the Arizona desert would really suck.

Also for those who argue the GTO is of good quality:

When C&D did a test of it they had the following problems
The battery tie-down and the wing-mounted center stop lamp both fell off the car. Also they weren't able to control the A/C and it would just switch on and off. The motor for the power passenger seat broke as well. That was all just during their initial test!

 

The GTO they had was a pre-production car. Every other review has given thumbs up to the build quality. Edmunds just did a full test of the GTO today and said it had great build quality. They also said that the only way you'll get a similar vehicle that fits four people is buy spending over $50K on a BMW or MB.

 

^ I saw the same article and will try and will try and find the link to it or i'll scan it onto here.

The first test was preproduction in which there was lots of kinks that needed to be attended too.

 

Junk.......trolls

 

Your only defenese^ You my friend are pathetic. Please for future reference use reasoning in your posts other than spewing garbarge. Thanks

 

I drove the new GTO, and I now know that it is indeed a pile of crap. This thread is about the new BMW 6 so again please go back to your GM forums and leave us alone:p

The Baller


04ls1vette real car!!!!

 

Leave you in your little dream world of false allegations and nonsense. You drove the GTO, i don't think they'd even let you in too drive it. How'd you even get the car you have now. Never knew they let Garbarge buy a 30k car. What did you rob a bank.

 

The personal attacks will stop, or everyone involved is getting a three day ban, at the very least. You guys are adults, not three-year-olds. No one should have to ask you to be polite, especially after you've already agreed to the TOS of this forum.

 

I would bet money that baller didn't drive a GTO.

 

Totally agree^^^.

You have an Rx-7? I've seen a good amount at the track running insane times. Insanely quick cars. Mazda's best!

BTW: Yes i do have a Vette and am on numerous boards, all of who can atest to this.

 

You might be misinformed about GM having the best profits in the auto world. Please read this article from the Detroit News Auto Insider (not exactly fans of Toyota) written last week about 2003 profits:

...In North America, Toyota last year sold more than 2 million cars and trucks for the first time. Its sales in Asia jumped 23.8 percent in one year, and Toyota’s share of the European market has more than doubled over the past five years, while GM’s has stagnated.

GM’s net profits last year totaled $3.8 billion, $1.2 billion of which came from its home market. In its 2003 fiscal year, Toyota earned an eye-popping $8.9 billion, almost all of it coming from American consumers. ...

Perhaps you think GMs $3.8B is more than Toyotas $8.9B? I await your rebuttal with bated breath.



Even more impressive (for Toyota) is a similar article from the Detroit News from May 2003:

DETROIT -- Can anything stop Toyota Motor Corp.? On Thursday, the leading Japanese automaker is expected to announce net profits of roughly $8 billion -- more than any Detroit automaker has made in any one year since at least the 1960s and more than GM, Ford and Chrysler combined made last year. The article is talking about 2002 profits here - Pelucidor

Toyota's profits aren't coming much from beleaguered Japanese consumers or Europeans, despite market share gains and the growing popularity of its cars there. They're coming from North America, particularly the United States.

American cash is funding Toyota's growth, new plant construction and an expanded product lineup from Detroit's chief competitor, making Toyota the standard by which Detroit's CEOs -- GM's Rick Wagoner, Ford's Bill Ford and Chrysler's Dieter Zetsche -- increasingly judge their own companies. The most appropriate word to describe Toyota's performance is "frightening."

"Just think of it," says Ronald Harbour, a leading industry consultant based in Troy. "They've got enough cash to buy the rest of the industry. It's scary to think of the roll they're on."

Toyota's record profits for the fiscal year that ended March 31 -- analysts estimate pre-tax operating profits to be about 1.5 trillion yen or $12 billion -- are just the first entry on a long list of uncomfortable comparisons.


I don't hate GM and I've never owned a GM vehicle (except an Opel Manta in England over 10 years ago which was fine) and I look forward to perhaps getting a C6 Corvette one day (or an RX-7 ). I am just stating facts about GMs profits. At least they are doing better than Ford who have lost $5.9B over the last three years (including a tiny $500M profit for 2003).

 

Im sorry but that new 6 is a disgrace to designers everywhere!!
To steal cues from a Vanquish then hide that by adding styling from a 2 door honda accord is just plain sad:o

I mean no offense to honda owners but for 60 large come on.
My eyes hurt to see that visual accident from bangle "6" parked next to that work of art (996)

Im sure it drive like a 60g car should but damn bangel its called design not experimentation -------because he failed.
nuf said

 

Found a few articles to prove the point. Sales for GM is up.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/399574.cms?

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...02/173748.html

http://money.cnn.com/2003/12/02/news...ies/autosales/

These articles show the staggering numbers from GM showing the rising sales and productivity. FOrd though is not doing well like you said, but it should go up due to there truck lines.

 

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/...ss/6913619.htm

This article shows that GM is doing excellent now and are #1 because of truck sales which are at an all time high. Your articles were accurate but a little out dated. I appreciate you providing evidence against me and doing it this way instead of name calling. Thank you.

 

May i ask how his are outdated? The link pelucidor posted had a date of March 21, 2004. The links I followed from your post was from January 1st this year and October last year. Now I'll admit I really didn't read too much of any of the articles but it seems pelucidor is arguing profit and your links are for units sold.

 

The articles you quote shows GM is #1 of the Detriot Big 3 and is the biggest producer of low profit vehicles (which they have been for over 50 years) and that GM is doing much better now than they were a few years ago which is absolutely true. Getting rid of that marketing-oriented idiot in charge of North America (Ron Zarella) and then Wagoner later hiring Lutz who put the focus back of product was mostly responsible for this.

However you started off by saying
and I am saying that GMs 2003 profits are far less than Toyota (i.e. GM is not #1 in this area). Some industry analysts think Toyota could buy all the Big 3 with their $30B cash reserves and vastly higher stock prices.

Also the article I quoted talking about GM's 2003 profits being dwarfed by Toyota was written 11 days ago - how is that outdated?

Please just agree me here and we can move on and talk about the ugliness of the overpriced 6-series. The upcoming Mercedes CLS will kill it in every way (including performance, luxury and value for money even though it is a "4-door coupe").

 

In the May issue of Motortrend the GTO is compared to the AMG CLK C55. Maybe one day it will be directly compared to the ugly overpriced BMW 6 series to end this discussion once for all.

"This thread is about the new BMW 6 so again please go back to your GM forums and leave us alone"

Well, if you didn't get our GTO thread cancelled we probably wouldn't be here. Karma [expletive deleted since it would be against rules]!

 

I just reviewed a little of that thread, wow i wish i was around then. Baller really attacked the GTO. It's actually a very nice car, i prefer the inside over the inside of my car!

 

The Mercedes CLS 65 AMG - a 6.0-litre twin-turbo V12 delivering 612bhp, 738lb. ft. of torque and sub-4.5 second 0-60mph acceleration - Plus AMG Speedshift five-speed auto transmission.

Probably won't handle as well as the BMW however.

 

wow that mercedes is hot
it kinds looks long like the maybach

 

I am quite sure that this machine will obliterate any GM product.....come to think of it my maids VW will also, because most GM products will be broken down.

GM, general moron.:D :D :D :D :D

 

If the shoe fits...........

 

Smoking crack for 90k lol maybe 45k!