ASH8

So true and these so called scientist that 'peer review' do not do so with pre-determined views or findings to suit their agenda (like Climate Change) not half at all, and NEVER open their minds to equally as important alternative views or scientific facts that is properly peer reviewed, not only finding 1000 so called scientists that just happen to agree with your study or finding.

ASH8

Rinse and repeat, in the microcosm of modern society which part of history do you determine as fact based on what exactly say the past 150, 200 years and how accurate is that science?

I repeat, NOAA admitted not that long ago that the over 3,000 of it's volunteers who take surface temperatures in urban and city landscapes were not doing it correctly as per guidelines set by NOAA , either digital measuring devices were too close to buildings that radiates excess heat off walls or too close to footpaths or brick paving that radiates excess heat, the recorded temps were too high.

20,000 years ago this planet was way hotter than todays averages, then 10,000 years ago we had an ice age with none of this influenced by what man did or did not do.
Go back to 10BC the planet was in an unsustainable heat wave (e&oe).

At times according to arctic frozen ice samples CO2 was way higher or lower than todays averages depending on the century, but humans had zero influence.
I also believe that CO2 (carbon) is your friend, in my life time we have seen through the use of genetic crop engineering with high atmospheric levels of CO2 with corresponding high crop yields per acre giving the world an abundance of quality food.
Apart from the odd earthquake there just is not the famine I grew up with, so why?
Perhaps it is because NGOs are better at targeting and the distribution of dry foods and water.
They say today the planet is also way greener than just 100 years ago.
Today with over 1,300 active volcanoes pumping out more CO2 than man ever does each and every day.

If you believe the US voting system if the safest in the world then you really need to read up more, unlike Australia and NZ the US does not have a Federalised system of voting, yes in most US States they have machine counting (unlike paper voting and physical counting like AU, NZ, UK, most or EU), but that has shown to be inaccurate and can be manipulated. The Arizona DA found fraud in 2020 voting with 10,000 votes either duplicated some triplicated after painstaking forensically looking into certain counties where each ballot is micro fiche photographed but there was the exact same voter and ballot counted 2 or 3 times and allocated a different hash tag ID Number at top of official ballot paper.
Then the old dead people voting as most states do not purge their electoral rolls of dead people, ballots being posted to same address with 5 different surnames and people deceased decades ago.
Frankly the system (mostly Democrat run states) is a bloody mess.
A Pennsylvania county was seen at 3.00AM with trucks reversing into vote counting building with overflowing ballots in black plastic garbage bags that were not sealed and falling out of bags, or not tag sealed in anyway (WTF), an electoral worker of prior 20 years' experience complained, but nothing happened apart from that person being dismissed.
Anyway, we could go on but not supposed to.
I don't personally have a problem discussing politics provided it does not get personal or any threats of any kind happen.

kevink0000

Another excellent post.

The first posts on this thread were rife with opinion, which I would guess you agreed with, so no echo chamber there, and no propaganda.

But it's expected because you are actually living in a world of propaganda, and cannot see it, esp, with regard to the subject at hand.

Like I said early on, you are being lied to. Just because the lie is everywhere (literally everywhere) , doesn't make it truth.

kevink0000

And there's this. I expect it is even more polarized than in 2017. Its getting harder and harder to meet in the middle when the middle is so wide.

Meat Head

My concern regarding source of facts arises when the source appears to come from the same place as QAnon facts. Pretty sure JFK Jr isn’t returning in a modern Tartus invented by the grand father of a former president of the US. If the alternate view point of science fact comes from this quality of research the discussion becomes interesting in a different way.

kevink0000

And that's where we're at too. If anything runs counter to the prevailing, powerful view, it must be conspiracy stuff, and worthy of no more inquiry. That is another way to shut down any alternate views ,and it is effective, unfortunately.

As I said before, when I was searching for articles that I had read years ago, and knew existed, the search engine put a bunch of articles with titles like "How to refute Climate Change deniers" "How to talk to doubting loved ones about Climate Change" and so on. It was and is very difficult to find anything that runs contrary to the hype.

If the science is so clear, why do they need this type of information control? Again we are relying on models, to predict the future, to make massive decisions. It's not OK to question the math of those models, or even publicly inspect the methodology?

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

https://www.fastcompany.com/90751646...ce=parsely-api

RX26b

A running theme among the authoritarians -- massive fabrication of numbers to grant themselves unlimited power. Just like in the 2020 elections where pedo moron miraculously received 20,000,000 + votes pulled out of thin air.
This fact nullifies every single climate change argument. Their only answer to this (and every other viewpoint of theirs) is an emotional one, whereby everyone should do as they say and not as they do.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Oh wow ...did this really happen? I bet there must be all kinds of proof to support this .............. cuz you can't just make something like that happen without breaking every law imaginable and leaving behind a huge trail of easily proven evidence.
I wonder when all the cases will come to court .................. They are coming .................aren't they ?????
If not..............someone would really have to be blinded by devotion to their cult to fall for this.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

kevink0000

Brett,

I will say about this topic that you will be very surprised. Also, this post will not age well.

Maybe you can start here, this will be a good beginning for a thoughtful man such as yourself. Not too much to stomach at once. Written in a way to sound innocuous and wholesome.

The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

kevink0000

And this. Broke a very very long trendline in US elections turnout percentages. 17 million more votes than 2016, during a pandemic. And there is a boatload more, now, 2 years after the fact.

https://www.census.gov/library/stori...-election.html

kevink0000

Back to the topic,

I have been trying to find a "test city" that was converted to green energy completely, as a proof of concept, and also to troubleshoot potential issues. I have found a lot of proposals, but no news of actual implementation.
Is anyone, on either side, aware of something like this, and can you post up a link?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Kevin ... I'm not reading any of your links . I'm speaking in generalisations only.... to try and avoid making any kind of political argument. I'm speaking as an outside observer only and looking at the situation logically.

Here it is plain and simple for you .
Eiher : one side is soooooo deviously clever that they managed to defraud the most secure electoral system in the world without leaving even the tiniest scrap of verifiable evidence in so doing ....
OR the other side is so ridiculously incompetent and stupid that they couldn't find their own shadow.

Edit : OR ...it didn't happen.

Post whatever 'PROOF' you like. Your country is supposed to be the leader of the free world and it beggars belief that such and huge fraud could go undetected without at least someone coming up with something ...anything............. that would hold up in court.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

After the protests against the 2016 winner who, remember, lost the popular vote like the last 5 out of 6 Republican wins, did you really think people just moved on? That morw wouldn't come out to make sure it didn't happen again?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Well no. There were disasters in the past, asteroid impacts, calderas, massive lava flows. Yes those spiked CO2, and lead to extinctions. Unless we all missed a worldwide conflagration recently, find another explanation for CO2 rise that for some reason coincides with development of industry as well.

You gotta read the actual findings.

kevink0000

The election was decided by 44,000 votes in 4 states. It was easily done, especially since both parties had an interest.

Our elections in the US are actually less secure than most in 3-4 world countries. During 2020 it was even more so.

But,if you are not willing to look into it, it's a closed matter as far as I am concerned.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Kevin .... it's not easily done without someone find out.
So ...you must be going with : one side was just so ridiculously stupid they couldn't find any verifiable proof whatsoever?

kevink0000

Ah. The popular vote. You are truly a Man of the Left.

Dream on.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

You... don't believe in the concept of popular vote?

Also, you do realize that even the folks who were pushing the stolen election idea, Guliani, etc, eventually admitted they had nothing? In court? I think only the pillow guy is still running around promising a big reveal next week, no, next week, no like definitely in a week or so. Why are we still even talking about this?

kevink0000

I love the popular vote. Just not for President, in which case it is direct disenfranchisement off less populous (non-coastal) states. Not a perfect system, but no way it's getting changed in the current times.

Your information is incorrect, and you also lack information about the 2020/21 court cases. There are many, many examples now (with evidence) of how bad this election was run in most of the deciding states. If the evidence that is out there now was present in 12/2020, those states would have had to decert. I don't want to go off topic more than we have.

This information will not be delivered to you on the 6 O'clock news. You have to look for it. But there's plenty, and more all the time. That's why I said Brett's post, (and now yours) will not age well.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

So.. someone's vote should count for more or less depending on where they live? The whole first-past-the post 2-party system is archaic, but this doesn't seem like an improvement. And it is more than a little relevant to this topic because climate and energy policies are decided by governments that are elected using this false representation nonsense. Coastal states like Cali have a lot more to lose as the climate worsens than middle America, and yet the electoral system ensures that party policies are determined by geographic distinctions to win? None of this will age well

kevink0000

Your first sentence indicates you disagree with yourself.

And, you know there is plenty of direct representation via popular vote down ballot. That is where many of the long term problems we have currently have started. Few have been solved there.

In fact, as we have seen many times recently, the Executive by no means holds the trump cards in running government.

It has aged just fine, flaws and all, thank you. The greatest in the world I, and many others would say.

jcbrx8

22 months on from E-day. 60+ litigations brought. Many dismissed ...even by "friendly-appointed" judges... for lack of substantial evidence, &/or sound argument. IIRC 1-60 win-loss record. What would you say about a college or pro coach w/ that record? None having found any *substantiated evidence* rising to the level of a bona-fide conspiracy ...much less overturning the result. Lunacy.

Now, conspiracy theories will continue to be proffered for minimally two reasons:
1. the grift ($$$): ...a fool is easily separated from his/her money,
2. the power: ... the disenchanted / angry / disgruntled are easily aroused ...and lead.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Please direct me back to this if there is EVER anything that actually holds up as hard evidence that stands up to any kind of scrutiny. I'm not talking about Joe from down at the butchers who faked their vote ....something that would have actually affected the outcome. At that time I will humbly apologise ..... for now I think it's all absolute BS and anyone that believes it is totally blinded by cult like political bias.