playdoh43

I read that they achieved the 300hp with new variable valve exhaust timing, shorter runners on the lower intake plenum and stronger materials on various other internal parts. I wonder if these changes make the engine more boost friendly. The popular APS twin turbo kit can already take the old engine to around 475 whp.

Matt RX8

Note to self: Don't talk smack to people with Turbo Z cars....

Sigma

Those changes won't make the engine more turbo friendly, but what will is the stronger internals used on the 35th Anniversary 300hp model now. If that exact same engine is used then, yes, the engine will be more turbo friendly. If they just used the same internals, but played around with some other stuff, then not really. The Zs biggest problem is just flat-out weak internals. Their pistons and rods look like something out of a Civic.

playdoh43

i believe it indeed is the exact same engine used in the 05 35th anniversary model, not 100% certain though

Steiner

I would think any "turbo friendly" gains made by the stronger internals would be offset by the bump in compression ratio.

Until recently there weren't many supercharged or turbocharged 350Z's running much more than 350whp on the stock bottom end. The supercharger kits (besides being expensive) screwed up the ECU because it masked the signals sent from the camshaft angle sensor to the crankshaft sensor. Engines went boom. I don't recall the specific problems with the big turbo kits (besides being even MORE expensive) but engines continued to go boom when approaching 400whp. The best turbo kit out there right now took almost 3 years of R&D to develop, costs an arm and a leg, but supposedly is worth every penny if you follow their advice and replace the stock internals with a fully forged, lower compression setup. The manufacturer is APS. The kit is a twin turbo setup and right now there are even some people pushing close to 500whp on the stock internals.

My guess and my hope is that Nissan is developing their own "in house" version of a twin turbocharged VQ for the upcoming Skyline. If that's the case watch out because when Nissan/Infinty gets that setup to market every 350Z tuner is gonna want one.

Saint_Spinner

Yup. Its the same "hi-rev" engine. Supposedly its got tougher internals and overall is a much better engine. Folks on www.my350z.com claim that its alot smoother too.

playdoh43

this in house version of the VQ is already developed and used in the Nissan GT500 race car.
Its been a tradition of skyline GT-Rs where the engine comes straight from a Nissan race car that started since the very first GT-R in the 70s. So when the new GT-R comes out in 2007, you can be sure its going to have a bullet proof powertrain and can be tuned to 1000+whp like the previous GT-Rs. However at the estimated $70k a pop, i dont know if too many tuners can afford one of those

The APS tt system shows that you can get massive hp from the vq35 with stock internals! its not super cheap like those BPU supras, but not too expensive either.

Steiner

Massive HP yes - but not reliable or sustained. Not even APS is daring to make that claim and they should know because of all the time, money and energy they invested into this kit. It will produce lots of horsepower but without a fortified bottom end you'll just be driving around on borrowed time.

playdoh43

i dont think theyd put out a product thats not reliable. borrowed time is too extreme. Im sure they did a lot of testing to determin how much boost is too much. but time will tell. vq35 wasnt made with boost in mind, so people that goes beyound what APS's kit recommend will probably have a much higher chance at blowing something up.

Steiner

I think APS recommends no more than 7psi on the stock internals. That should be good for just about 400whp. Keep in mind that their setup isn't just 2 turbos and an intercooler either...it also includes engine management, a new fuel system, intake, exhaust, etc. I think it's between $8k and $10k in parts and another $2k or $3k for custom tune and installation. There are only a few APS dealers in the US too.

With forged internals I think one of these APS 350Z's could put down a safe and street legal 520whp at 9 or 10psi of boost. Anymore boost than that and you'll need something bigger than twin GT25's...but then you'll have some lag and it sounds like the best thing about this setup is there is literally NO turbo lag.

Sigma

Of course they would. It was never meant to be used on a motor with stock internals. The same as it was never meant to be used on a stock transmission setup either, particularly an Automatic. Even single turbo 350Z motors blow up left and right. You can, literally, hardly look at a single page on the my350Z.com FI Forums and not read a post about someone else blowing their motor. A few weeks ago I saw 3 posted in a single day. It's practically a right of passage or something. I'm not being critical of the 350Z, it's just the way it is if you want to boost it up.

You run a twin-turbo on a 350Z with stock internals you WILL blow the motor. And likely within a few thousand miles, most do it within a few weeks. The #1 sticky on the my350Z FI forums is "How to Build up a Stock Motor". There's another sticky called "How to do Twins [Turbos] Right the First Time", which is the same thing -- how to build up a stock motor to handle twin-turbos. The author of that blew his stock motor in a month.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

where's Ike when you need him? :D

playdoh43

ahh geez can we stop the hate? lol its not that bad, people that blow their motor are the adventurous ones who decides to take it beyond recommended settings, often times have a bunch of differnt mods mixed together in unreliable combinations, and dont have it properly tuned. If everyone that goes FI blows motors then no one would be doing it anymore. lets give people a lil more credit than that, people arnt that stupid. I believe Steiner is pretty accurate in describing the situation.
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/350z/350z.htm 350z will never have as much tunning potential as factory FI cars, but Im pretty amazed at what they have done with it none the less. time will tell what kind of legacy 350z leaves in the tuner world. I personally would rather save that kinda money toward the next car hopefully a used C6 or the next skyline GT-R.

Sigma

Steiner and I are describing almost the exact same thing.

I read and post on the my350Z.com Forums as much as I do on these. I read a LOT of Forums in a given day -- SVT Contour, Mazda6, Mazda3, RX-8, GTO, and 350Z are ones I am very active on now. I'm very familiar with what the VQ35 can and cannot do. And it cannot run a twin-turbo reliably on stock internals. Not without turning the boost down to a point that makes it rather pointless do spend the money on twins.

And I didn't say everyone that went FI blew motors, I said virtually everyone that went Twin-Turbo without upgrading the internals was blowing motors. You can go single-turbo or supercharger and be just fine; Stillen even offers an engine warranty with their supercharger as long as you don't exceed 325whp; after that the engine gets rather iffy.

If you're going to spend the $10-12,000 to install a twin-turbo setup, a couple thousand more for some forged internals isn't a big deal. Nor is blowing an engine a big deal, VQ short-blocks are pretty cheap. A lot of guys just run them until they blow then swap in their new built-up short block they've had waiting for it to blow. It's not a big deal when they post about them blowing, it's not an "OMG my engine exploded ?!$!#" post, it's a "Well, it finally happened, took 6 weeks" post. And then they swap in their built motors. In just the last 2 pages in their FI Forum, going back about 3 days, there's 6 new threads by people posting about finishing their engine build-up. It's extremely common and very much a rarity to find someone with a TT that doesn't have immediate plans for a rebuild.

It's not "hating" to say that you have to build up the motor to support a twin-turbo. You'd be hard-pressed to find any motor that can take a twin-turbo, a 100% increase in power, on its' stock internals. I like the 350Z albeit for different reasons than I like the RX-8 but I'm also realistic about what it can do, and you're not going to be running around with 425+whp on stock internals for very long.

Shiri

Logically speaking, FI creates more stress on the engine. Some engines can take the stress where others can't.

Can't you guess the worst engine to add turbos to?

Yeap, rotaries.

neit_jnf

^^ wrong

rotaries have incredible power potential with forced induction. as long as it's well tuned and the cooling system (coolant and oil) up to par they are reliable.

problems start when people get power hungry (500 whp out of a 1.3L 13B), the tuning ins't good (detonation) or the cooling system fails to keep temperatures low (overheat)