Chevy Volt gets 230 MPG
08-11-2009, 02:37 PM
#26
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Assuming a constant of 15,000 miles....
15,000 / 15mpg = 1,000 gallons of gas
15,000 / 20mpg = 750 gallons of gas
Savings = 250 gallons
15,000 / 50mpg = 300 gallons of gas
15,000 / 230mpg = 65 gallons of gas
Savings = 235 gallons
Chocolate Chip please.
I get what you are saying, and I 100% agree that most people ignore the initial premium on hybrid technology. Are hybrids with better mileage going to cost the same or less than non-hybrids of the same make/model? Of course not. But it never seems to be factored into the equation. I'll take it a step further
Assume that the same eco-insane person buying a Prius just because of the high gas mileage, because it makes them look good on the red carpet, trades in for a Volt. The break even point for $3.00 gas, the point at which it costs (price + gas) the same for each car, is 60,000 miles (approximately) At this point, the cost for the Volt is $45,021, the cost for the Prius is $45,100. 60,000 miles is on average 4 years (15,000 per year, using the same mpg you posted, 230 and 50 respectively)
Alternatively, looking at the Camry hybrid vs non-hybrid, the break even point is just past 100,000 miles, or 6.5 years.
But that really isn't the issue here. It is the fact that Series Hybrid needs to be on every single road vehicle out there, especially commercial trucks. As RotoryGod pointed out a while back, it already has been on every train for half a decade. This is finally a step in that direction, and while Chevy is to be commended for that, they really didn't take it as far as they needed to, and someone else will.
15,000 / 15mpg = 1,000 gallons of gas
15,000 / 20mpg = 750 gallons of gas
Savings = 250 gallons
15,000 / 50mpg = 300 gallons of gas
15,000 / 230mpg = 65 gallons of gas
Savings = 235 gallons
Chocolate Chip please.
I get what you are saying, and I 100% agree that most people ignore the initial premium on hybrid technology. Are hybrids with better mileage going to cost the same or less than non-hybrids of the same make/model? Of course not. But it never seems to be factored into the equation. I'll take it a step further
Assume that the same eco-insane person buying a Prius just because of the high gas mileage, because it makes them look good on the red carpet, trades in for a Volt. The break even point for $3.00 gas, the point at which it costs (price + gas) the same for each car, is 60,000 miles (approximately) At this point, the cost for the Volt is $45,021, the cost for the Prius is $45,100. 60,000 miles is on average 4 years (15,000 per year, using the same mpg you posted, 230 and 50 respectively)
Alternatively, looking at the Camry hybrid vs non-hybrid, the break even point is just past 100,000 miles, or 6.5 years.
But that really isn't the issue here. It is the fact that Series Hybrid needs to be on every single road vehicle out there, especially commercial trucks. As RotoryGod pointed out a while back, it already has been on every train for half a decade. This is finally a step in that direction, and while Chevy is to be commended for that, they really didn't take it as far as they needed to, and someone else will.
08-11-2009, 02:45 PM
#27
they main problem is no matter what fuel source you use, you are always going to spend lots of money on it. Maybe not now but you will. If electric started taking over oil then you know darn well your electric bill is going to sky rocket because the electric companies know millions of people are charging a car every day.
We can't really win.
Volt is useless to me because of the price and the electric range.
Electric cars will only be useful if they can
1. Be cheap
2. use only electric
3. get 100+ miles to the charge
4. charge to full in a short period of time (30 minutes to an hour)
5. have better battery technology that won't fade quickly over time. Even Lithium Ions mess up the more you charge/discharge them.
We can't really win.
Volt is useless to me because of the price and the electric range.
Electric cars will only be useful if they can
1. Be cheap
2. use only electric
3. get 100+ miles to the charge
4. charge to full in a short period of time (30 minutes to an hour)
5. have better battery technology that won't fade quickly over time. Even Lithium Ions mess up the more you charge/discharge them.
08-11-2009, 02:49 PM
#28
The only problem I can for see, is that no one will be consuming gasoline. Well we know what that will do to the price. $100.00 a gallon. The big Fuel companies will have to make up for their loss's somewhere. And what better place than the consumers pockets.
08-11-2009, 02:53 PM
#30
It's a Cavalier
If youre using 15k/yr as milage, going from 15 to 20 saves you 250gal (750 gal instead of 1000) and going from the 50 to 230 saves 234, so just a little less, but still, almost the same amount.... I had done the math, saw where you were going... didnt think you wanted to see the stuff all written out... im not stupid
My point is going from 15-20 to 230 saves 7-900/yr... times the 200million some cars in the US... its a bit of a savings. you can do the math
My point is going from 15-20 to 230 saves 7-900/yr... times the 200million some cars in the US... its a bit of a savings. you can do the math
So, you represent a fraction of the American public that can intellectually discuss the issue not basing it on anectodotal analysis.
We agree. It's far more cost effective and it's easier at this point to make more 20mpg cars to replace all the 15 mpg car, and we have to realize only a fraction of savings are gained by exhausting resources in building a 230 mpg car.
Can we build a 230mpg car? Yep. Is it addressing the bigger issue? Nope. And I'll bet the government subsidized a portion of the research GM did instead of spending it on eliminating all the "gas guzzlers" that would impact not only automobiles, but also shipping, trucking, rail, powerplants, etc.
08-11-2009, 02:56 PM
#32
It's a Cavalier
Assuming a constant of 15,000 miles....
15,000 / 15mpg = 1,000 gallons of gas
15,000 / 20mpg = 750 gallons of gas
Savings = 250 gallons
15,000 / 50mpg = 300 gallons of gas
15,000 / 230mpg = 65 gallons of gas
Savings = 235 gallons
Chocolate Chip please.
I get what you are saying, and I 100% agree that most people ignore the initial premium on hybrid technology. Are hybrids with better mileage going to cost the same or less than non-hybrids of the same make/model? Of course not. But it never seems to be factored into the equation. I'll take it a step further
Assume that the same eco-insane person buying a Prius just because of the high gas mileage, because it makes them look good on the red carpet, trades in for a Volt. The break even point for $3.00 gas, the point at which it costs (price + gas) the same for each car, is 60,000 miles (approximately) At this point, the cost for the Volt is $45,021, the cost for the Prius is $45,100. 60,000 miles is on average 4 years (15,000 per year, using the same mpg you posted, 230 and 50 respectively)
Alternatively, looking at the Camry hybrid vs non-hybrid, the break even point is just past 100,000 miles, or 6.5 years.
But that really isn't the issue here. It is the fact that Series Hybrid needs to be on every single road vehicle out there, especially commercial trucks. As RotoryGod pointed out a while back, it already has been on every train for half a decade. This is finally a step in that direction, and while Chevy is to be commended for that, they really didn't take it as far as they needed to, and someone else will.
15,000 / 15mpg = 1,000 gallons of gas
15,000 / 20mpg = 750 gallons of gas
Savings = 250 gallons
15,000 / 50mpg = 300 gallons of gas
15,000 / 230mpg = 65 gallons of gas
Savings = 235 gallons
Chocolate Chip please.
I get what you are saying, and I 100% agree that most people ignore the initial premium on hybrid technology. Are hybrids with better mileage going to cost the same or less than non-hybrids of the same make/model? Of course not. But it never seems to be factored into the equation. I'll take it a step further
Assume that the same eco-insane person buying a Prius just because of the high gas mileage, because it makes them look good on the red carpet, trades in for a Volt. The break even point for $3.00 gas, the point at which it costs (price + gas) the same for each car, is 60,000 miles (approximately) At this point, the cost for the Volt is $45,021, the cost for the Prius is $45,100. 60,000 miles is on average 4 years (15,000 per year, using the same mpg you posted, 230 and 50 respectively)
Alternatively, looking at the Camry hybrid vs non-hybrid, the break even point is just past 100,000 miles, or 6.5 years.
But that really isn't the issue here. It is the fact that Series Hybrid needs to be on every single road vehicle out there, especially commercial trucks. As RotoryGod pointed out a while back, it already has been on every train for half a decade. This is finally a step in that direction, and while Chevy is to be commended for that, they really didn't take it as far as they needed to, and someone else will.
08-11-2009, 03:07 PM
#33
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There is always a sliding scale. Want cheaper energy? It won't be as efficient. Want more efficient energy? It won't be as cheap.
They are completing testing on backpack sized nuclear reactors to power a moon base. I bet you can get some mileage out of those for your fuel consumption. Probably longer than the bolts holding it to the car can last.
But the premium is .... quite high.
We could go back to burning wood.
The end problem will never, ever go away. It takes energy to make energy. Essentially, just transferring energy around. There is a limited amount of energy within the planet, and even if we use our share, it is just converting it into a different type of energy. Right now, the combustion engine is basically just converting the engery in petroleum into heat released into the atmosphere, which really doesn't make it back down to earth again. (Unless you want to call that global warming) Until we can effectively harness energy which is already in the atmosphere (or beyond it), we are on a terminal energy course, and these patches are just trying to slow down the inevitable....unless we can reduce consumption to the point that our consumption is lower than the rate at which nature creates oil. (Humorous picture that...)
Solar, wind, hydro, and tidal generators are the only ones that gather energy from outside our planet, and none of them can really work yet for cars. Until then, the best we have is using one of those to convert it to electricity, sent to a house, sent through a plug into the vehicle.
We could implement a massive electrical grid on the roadways, even just highways or main roads, and have cars pull the electricity the way some trains do.....but metering that would become troublesome, hard to enforce, and the hazards would be plentiful. Storing it within the car itself is the only viable solution in the near future, and then just barely because of the trouble of storing electricity.
eh, i'm rambling, you get what I mean i think.
They are completing testing on backpack sized nuclear reactors to power a moon base. I bet you can get some mileage out of those for your fuel consumption. Probably longer than the bolts holding it to the car can last.
But the premium is .... quite high.
We could go back to burning wood.
The end problem will never, ever go away. It takes energy to make energy. Essentially, just transferring energy around. There is a limited amount of energy within the planet, and even if we use our share, it is just converting it into a different type of energy. Right now, the combustion engine is basically just converting the engery in petroleum into heat released into the atmosphere, which really doesn't make it back down to earth again. (Unless you want to call that global warming) Until we can effectively harness energy which is already in the atmosphere (or beyond it), we are on a terminal energy course, and these patches are just trying to slow down the inevitable....unless we can reduce consumption to the point that our consumption is lower than the rate at which nature creates oil. (Humorous picture that...)
Solar, wind, hydro, and tidal generators are the only ones that gather energy from outside our planet, and none of them can really work yet for cars. Until then, the best we have is using one of those to convert it to electricity, sent to a house, sent through a plug into the vehicle.
We could implement a massive electrical grid on the roadways, even just highways or main roads, and have cars pull the electricity the way some trains do.....but metering that would become troublesome, hard to enforce, and the hazards would be plentiful. Storing it within the car itself is the only viable solution in the near future, and then just barely because of the trouble of storing electricity.
eh, i'm rambling, you get what I mean i think.
Last edited by RIWWP; 08-11-2009 at 03:10 PM.
08-11-2009, 03:13 PM
#34
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Fun fact: The 1st diesel electric locomotive company (builds series hybrid locos as mentioned in the thread) was owned & ran by GM until just a few years ago. There are no diesel electrics that run off battery only like the volt can do, however - they are simply electric drive run off of a generator coupled to the engine
Last edited by ndhoffma; 08-11-2009 at 03:20 PM.
08-11-2009, 03:22 PM
#35
It's a Cavalier
Something like this conversation:
Her: I spent $1500 on shoes.
Him: $1500?!?!?!
Her: Yah, but they were on sale. Look at all the money I saved.
08-11-2009, 03:22 PM
#36
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Oh I'm sure they'll last hundreds of years.
They'll only hold a decent charge for about 5 though.
Car fires are going to be a lot more interesting with several hundred pounds of self oxidizing accelerant in every vehicle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJCZ4ayioCU
[EMBED]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJCZ4ayioCU[/EMBED]
Edit:You know, I think I honestly prefer the lithium fire.
Last edited by Socket7; 08-11-2009 at 08:49 PM.
08-11-2009, 03:28 PM
#37
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Fun fact: The 1st diesel electric locomotive company (builds series hybrid locos as mentioned in the thread) was owned & ran by GM until just a few years ago. There are no diesel electrics that run off battery only like the volt can do, however - they are simply electric drive run off of a generator coupled to the engine
The Frazier-Nash Namir does it this way, and they get 97.1mpg, 0-60 in 2.8(?) seconds, 185mph top speed. Do we need this much power? No. But then they use a tiny turbo on an 800cc rotary engine. Remove the turbo, change gearing, knock it down to a 300cc, or a 2 piston 400cc engine or something. Reduce the combustion engine's power output through a smaller engine (cheaper to build/replace) reduce the electric power or the electric motor output for an economy car that can blow the volt out of the water. Will it be cheap? Probably not at first, but the technology is there, and with quantity, the price will begin to plummet.
Edit:
The Namir is rated close to 400hp, but it also has a pair of motors for each wheel. removing even just 2 of them drops the power consumption and output, and you might be able to run the chassis off of a lawn mower engine. This is why I think Chevy missed the boat. They didn't take it far enough. Hopefully Mazda's MPV will.
Last edited by RIWWP; 08-11-2009 at 03:31 PM.
08-11-2009, 06:39 PM
#38
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So it is for the urbanite.
I find it hard to believe that the design is that incredible if the mpg drops so drastically past the battery-empty mark. It seems like it is a series hybrid most of the time, until you pass the 40 mile mark and it turns into a parallel hybrid?
His comment certainly suggests it:
Granted, the Frazier-Nash Namir is a supercar concept, but that doesn't have a transition. The tiny turboed rotary is constantly humming, the electric power is always the drive source.
I think Chevy did it again, developed a good idea, but didn't bring it far enough, and someone else will outstrip them in short order.
I find it hard to believe that the design is that incredible if the mpg drops so drastically past the battery-empty mark. It seems like it is a series hybrid most of the time, until you pass the 40 mile mark and it turns into a parallel hybrid?
His comment certainly suggests it:
Granted, the Frazier-Nash Namir is a supercar concept, but that doesn't have a transition. The tiny turboed rotary is constantly humming, the electric power is always the drive source.
I think Chevy did it again, developed a good idea, but didn't bring it far enough, and someone else will outstrip them in short order.
08-11-2009, 06:55 PM
#39
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Exactly. Reduce engine since even farther and directly power the generator for the electric motor. Easy to hold steady mpg regardless of mileage, the technology is here, and less need for reliance on a battery.
The Frazier-Nash Namir does it this way, and they get 97.1mpg, 0-60 in 2.8(?) seconds, 185mph top speed. Do we need this much power? No. But then they use a tiny turbo on an 800cc rotary engine. Remove the turbo, change gearing, knock it down to a 300cc, or a 2 piston 400cc engine or something. Reduce the combustion engine's power output through a smaller engine (cheaper to build/replace) reduce the electric power or the electric motor output for an economy car that can blow the volt out of the water. Will it be cheap? Probably not at first, but the technology is there, and with quantity, the price will begin to plummet.
Edit:
The Namir is rated close to 400hp, but it also has a pair of motors for each wheel. removing even just 2 of them drops the power consumption and output, and you might be able to run the chassis off of a lawn mower engine. This is why I think Chevy missed the boat. They didn't take it far enough. Hopefully Mazda's MPV will.
The Frazier-Nash Namir does it this way, and they get 97.1mpg, 0-60 in 2.8(?) seconds, 185mph top speed. Do we need this much power? No. But then they use a tiny turbo on an 800cc rotary engine. Remove the turbo, change gearing, knock it down to a 300cc, or a 2 piston 400cc engine or something. Reduce the combustion engine's power output through a smaller engine (cheaper to build/replace) reduce the electric power or the electric motor output for an economy car that can blow the volt out of the water. Will it be cheap? Probably not at first, but the technology is there, and with quantity, the price will begin to plummet.
Edit:
The Namir is rated close to 400hp, but it also has a pair of motors for each wheel. removing even just 2 of them drops the power consumption and output, and you might be able to run the chassis off of a lawn mower engine. This is why I think Chevy missed the boat. They didn't take it far enough. Hopefully Mazda's MPV will.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/autoc...he-future.aspx
08-12-2009, 08:26 AM
#41
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I'm no expert on the Volt, but I'm pretty sure it too is a series hybrid. And don't expect the Namir to be brought to market for anywhere near $40k. GM has been planning on taking the technology much further for quite some time but even the modest Volt is still not really cost-effective.
Although the reporting was not always consistent, the 4WD Namir as shown in Geneva had one motor per wheel, not two. The first working Namir to be shown publically only has two motors, see it here:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/autoc...he-future.aspx
http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/autoc...he-future.aspx
If (for simplicity's sake, I know this isn't precise) the Namir needs 2cc combustion per electric motor HP (~800cc for ~400hp, which is an amazing power to size ratio), then it should be able to be scaled down. Drop it to ~300cc for ~150hp. You are starting to talk gocart engine size now. Granted, the Namir is turboed, but if the engine sits at a constant RPM, you can maximize the hell out of that specific RPM. No reason you can't do that for a tiny piston engine as well.
And from everything that I have read about the Volt, it's basic idea is a series, but it seems to function more as a parallel. A true series will have constant MPG at constant load, regardless of distance driven. It will always be demanding the same fuel consumption for the same electrical load. It won't matter if you are going 1 mile or 1,000 miles. The only time the mpg will change is if you change the load asked for and the combustion engine has to ramp up to provide the current. A parallel under constant load will have it's mpg remain the same (zero) until the battery charge is depleted, then start plummeting as the combustion engine is fired up to provide the power. If the Volt's MPG drops the longer distance it drives from it's last charge, then it can't be a true series hybrid. The rate of mpg drop the Volt has suggests that the combustion engine is actually linked into the power train mechanically somehow. You have to admit, that is a pretty severe mpg drop that it has. Again, I point back to the quote from the article:
The other area of new technology, switching between battery and engine power, is proceeding well, he said, with engineers just fine-tuning the operations.
"We're very pleased with the transition from when it's driving EV (electric vehicle) to when the engine and generator kick in," he said,
"We're very pleased with the transition from when it's driving EV (electric vehicle) to when the engine and generator kick in," he said,
That is the point I am trying to make. I'm not saying Chevy could have squeezed more MPG out of the Volt, because that is subjective on how far you drive anyway. I am saying that this technology exists, and Chevy got alot closer to actually using it, but for some reason, left some fairly big flaws that are only over looked as long as it is king of the mountain. Other manufacturers will design toward the same technology, but just about any foreign manufacturer will better design out those flaws and crush the Volt from competition.
08-12-2009, 12:48 PM
#42
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Thanks for the clarification on the details, but I still stand by my point. Am I saying that the Namir is a viable alternative to the Volt, or even close to being cross shopped? Nope. I am just saying that the principles used in the Namir can easily carry over to a 'people carrier' or 'daily commuter'. Reduce the motor count, reduce the size of the combustion engine since you don't need as big of a current, and it will be a massive price drop right there. I took a look through the prices of electric motors out there, and there seems to be a generally exponential increase in the cost of a motor with the increase of output HP. So even a modest drop in power will have a significant impact on the price.
If (for simplicity's sake, I know this isn't precise) the Namir needs 2cc combustion per electric motor HP (~800cc for ~400hp, which is an amazing power to size ratio), then it should be able to be scaled down. Drop it to ~300cc for ~150hp. You are starting to talk gocart engine size now. Granted, the Namir is turboed, but if the engine sits at a constant RPM, you can maximize the hell out of that specific RPM. No reason you can't do that for a tiny piston engine as well.
And from everything that I have read about the Volt, it's basic idea is a series, but it seems to function more as a parallel. A true series will have constant MPG at constant load, regardless of distance driven. It will always be demanding the same fuel consumption for the same electrical load. It won't matter if you are going 1 mile or 1,000 miles. The only time the mpg will change is if you change the load asked for and the combustion engine has to ramp up to provide the current. A parallel under constant load will have it's mpg remain the same (zero) until the battery charge is depleted, then start plummeting as the combustion engine is fired up to provide the power. If the Volt's MPG drops the longer distance it drives from it's last charge, then it can't be a true series hybrid. The rate of mpg drop the Volt has suggests that the combustion engine is actually linked into the power train mechanically somehow. You have to admit, that is a pretty severe mpg drop that it has. Again, I point back to the quote from the article:
Definitely sounds Parallel.
That is the point I am trying to make. I'm not saying Chevy could have squeezed more MPG out of the Volt, because that is subjective on how far you drive anyway. I am saying that this technology exists, and Chevy got alot closer to actually using it, but for some reason, left some fairly big flaws that are only over looked as long as it is king of the mountain. Other manufacturers will design toward the same technology, but just about any foreign manufacturer will better design out those flaws and crush the Volt from competition.
If (for simplicity's sake, I know this isn't precise) the Namir needs 2cc combustion per electric motor HP (~800cc for ~400hp, which is an amazing power to size ratio), then it should be able to be scaled down. Drop it to ~300cc for ~150hp. You are starting to talk gocart engine size now. Granted, the Namir is turboed, but if the engine sits at a constant RPM, you can maximize the hell out of that specific RPM. No reason you can't do that for a tiny piston engine as well.
And from everything that I have read about the Volt, it's basic idea is a series, but it seems to function more as a parallel. A true series will have constant MPG at constant load, regardless of distance driven. It will always be demanding the same fuel consumption for the same electrical load. It won't matter if you are going 1 mile or 1,000 miles. The only time the mpg will change is if you change the load asked for and the combustion engine has to ramp up to provide the current. A parallel under constant load will have it's mpg remain the same (zero) until the battery charge is depleted, then start plummeting as the combustion engine is fired up to provide the power. If the Volt's MPG drops the longer distance it drives from it's last charge, then it can't be a true series hybrid. The rate of mpg drop the Volt has suggests that the combustion engine is actually linked into the power train mechanically somehow. You have to admit, that is a pretty severe mpg drop that it has. Again, I point back to the quote from the article:
Definitely sounds Parallel.
That is the point I am trying to make. I'm not saying Chevy could have squeezed more MPG out of the Volt, because that is subjective on how far you drive anyway. I am saying that this technology exists, and Chevy got alot closer to actually using it, but for some reason, left some fairly big flaws that are only over looked as long as it is king of the mountain. Other manufacturers will design toward the same technology, but just about any foreign manufacturer will better design out those flaws and crush the Volt from competition.
Frazer-Nash was at one time said to be developing a more economical version of it's drivetrain as a taxi in London. In fact, it was supposed to be unveileled in April of this year, but I haven't heard anything recently.
Last edited by robrecht; 08-12-2009 at 12:55 PM.
08-13-2009, 04:53 PM
#43
It's called MARKETING.
c'mon guys... every car company out there does it.
HELL, even the 62 mpg trumps the Prius.
It's like horsepower figures on cars. Do people really buy an RX-8 believing that at ALL times they have 238 hp? uhh... no.
It's simply to show what the vehicle is capable of.
c'mon guys... every car company out there does it.
HELL, even the 62 mpg trumps the Prius.
It's like horsepower figures on cars. Do people really buy an RX-8 believing that at ALL times they have 238 hp? uhh... no.
It's simply to show what the vehicle is capable of.
08-13-2009, 08:37 PM
#45
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http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/13/n...-fuel-concept/
08-13-2009, 10:20 PM
#46
It's a Cavalier
Skip the plug-in step and just get a Cadillac WTF:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/13/n...-fuel-concept/
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/13/n...-fuel-concept/
Pretty awesome looking car, though.
08-13-2009, 11:41 PM
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Wake up and smell the "arcing"...the only movement the Volt will do is the constant PR drumbeat you''ll be hearing about in the automotive press. Chevy ballyhooed the new Camaro for 6 years and then rolled out the first 1000 SS cars that went approximately 100 miles and quit dead in their tracks...faulty battery cable don't you know. So the same company that can't size a battery cable can build a full electric vehicle...get real fellas...don't y'all understand "corporate-spin" when you hear some? The Volt is really a Public Relations Spark...nothing more...and will be delayed forever. Does hype the stock though...230MPG yea right!
08-14-2009, 12:23 AM
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I do doubt the 230mpg. It's like Toyota claims 70 something mpg in the Prius in Europe.
I do have to admit, it is nice to go 400 miles on $23. My first fill up in the RX-8 was $44 for 200 miles...
I do have to admit, it is nice to go 400 miles on $23. My first fill up in the RX-8 was $44 for 200 miles...
08-14-2009, 08:16 AM
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Gasoline holds about 70 times more megajoules per kilogram than a lithium ion battery, but a internal combustion sucks so theres the trade off. This exact warning about lithium ion happened to gasoline back in the early 1900's.
Originally Posted by Spicewood Rotary
Wake up and smell the "arcing"...the only movement the Volt will do is the constant PR drumbeat you''ll be hearing about in the automotive press. Chevy ballyhooed the new Camaro for 6 years and then rolled out the first 1000 SS cars that went approximately 100 miles and quit dead in their tracks...faulty battery cable don't you know. So the same company that can't size a battery cable can build a full electric vehicle...get real fellas...don't y'all understand "corporate-spin" when you hear some? The Volt is really a Public Relations Spark...nothing more...and will be delayed forever. Does hype the stock though...230MPG yea right!
08-14-2009, 09:08 AM
#50
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230 mpg is all marketing. It's hard to put a true mileage rating on a car like the Volt. If you drive less than 40 miles a day and can plug the car in to charge at night, theoretically you'll never use any gas. I have a 47 mile commute to work one way but I have access to an electrical outlet that I could plug into for 9 hours during the day. Theoretically I'd only have a gas engine on for less than 20 miles that day. However even the 40 mile limit is hard to judge as we don't know if that's 40 miles at 45 mph or at 75 mph. I'm willing to bet they came up with that figure based on some "average" city driving that people do with alot of stop and go driving where regenerative braking will help a bit. I might only get 20 miles on pure electric on the freeway. It's really hard to judge.
If the worst case scenario with the generator running all the time while on a long trip is still over 60 mpg, I don't see any reason to complain. That blows away all but the best and lightest small diesel cars and will kill a Prius on the freeway. That sounds good to me. For some people 230 mpg may be quite feasible. For some it might be easy to hit. For others next to impossible. Series systems are the future of cars. They've been this way in locomotives since the 40's. Battery technology allows you to make the generator smaller and make it more efficient. I can't wait for the technology to mature. I think cars will be fun in a way that we don't yet understand. Of course much of the current fun will be lost too and some will have a hard time accepting that. Much like some couldn't understand how something so magical and wonderous as the steam engine could be replaced by the diesel/electric locomotive.
The Nissan leaf is a pure electric car. 100%. Why they said they can get over 300 mpg, they were poking fun at Chevy. I for one am excited about the Volt. I won't buy one as I want the price to come down. I also refuse to buy from a company that is controlled by the government. Especially the current one. When (if) GM finally has control returned to the people and away from the government, then I'll consider buying one. By then though other companies will have similar technology available though.
If the worst case scenario with the generator running all the time while on a long trip is still over 60 mpg, I don't see any reason to complain. That blows away all but the best and lightest small diesel cars and will kill a Prius on the freeway. That sounds good to me. For some people 230 mpg may be quite feasible. For some it might be easy to hit. For others next to impossible. Series systems are the future of cars. They've been this way in locomotives since the 40's. Battery technology allows you to make the generator smaller and make it more efficient. I can't wait for the technology to mature. I think cars will be fun in a way that we don't yet understand. Of course much of the current fun will be lost too and some will have a hard time accepting that. Much like some couldn't understand how something so magical and wonderous as the steam engine could be replaced by the diesel/electric locomotive.
The Nissan leaf is a pure electric car. 100%. Why they said they can get over 300 mpg, they were poking fun at Chevy. I for one am excited about the Volt. I won't buy one as I want the price to come down. I also refuse to buy from a company that is controlled by the government. Especially the current one. When (if) GM finally has control returned to the people and away from the government, then I'll consider buying one. By then though other companies will have similar technology available though.