Originally Posted by gansan

It's also very likely you're making baseless accusations. I know Shawn Church, the guy who did the dynoing, and he's an honest guy interested in being accurate, not trumping numbers. His dyno measures power by connecting directly to the hub, which results in slightly higher numbers than a dyno that measures from the wheels, but it also eliminates the variables of varying tire pressures and variations in rolling resistance from different types and sizes of tires, so it's arguably more repeatable. Shawn's probably just reporting what the machine measures.

Originally Posted by AbusiveWombat

What I'm stating is take these numbers with a grain of salt. It's VERY easy to manipulate dyno numbers. When the 2.2L S2000 came out, vtec.net had the first dyno and was claiming a 20hp bump. Later when the owners started dyno'ing the car's there was little to no change between the 2.2L and the 2.0L.

Originally Posted by AbusiveWombat

The facts were further backed up with 1/4 mile times that didn't change.

Originally Posted by AbusiveWombat

So, again, take the numbers with a grain of salt. I don't care who is the person dyno'ing at vtec.net, their numbers were inflated before and are likely inflated this time.

Originally Posted by 124Spider

I'm curious why you keep saying this, when the typical AP1 S2000 dynos at around 195-200 rwhp, while the typical AP2 S2000 dynos at around 210 rwhp. I think that 10-15 rwhp gain is significant, along with more torque, and a friendlier torque curve.

Originally Posted by 124Spider

Nonsense. The gearing changed, and the redline changed. The AP2 takes an extra shift to get to the 1/4 mile, since 4th redlines at 97, and the typical 1/4 mile time for the S2000 is quoted at 14 seconds at 100mph. An extra shift will cost something like .5 seconds, easily accounting for the more powerful car having the same 1/4 mile time. Same with 0-60, since the AP2 redlines 2nd at 57mph.

Originally Posted by 124Spider

And who cares, anyway?

Originally Posted by AbusiveWombat

I've seen dynos of the two overlapped, on the same day, on the same dyno with both hitting the same peak horsepower at the wheels. This was when the AP2's just hit the streets. I don't own an S2000 so I don't keep up on them but when the AP2's first came out I was initially interested so I followed the horsepower drama for a few weeks. As a side note, dyno numbers generally fluctuate between 3-5 hp per pull, so a 10hp difference is well within error tolerances.

Originally Posted by AbusiveWombat

I read countless AP2 vs. AP1 stories and in general they have the same acceleration. You can't cop out and say that the AP2's are faster when they run the same/similar 1/4 mile times as the AP1's. Using gearing or redline as an excuse does not change the fact that both run a 14.0 second 1/4 mile.

Originally Posted by 124Spider

I have seen a number of threads, with multiple posts by folks here claiming that it is "well known" that some mysterious force keeps the RX-8 from giving an accurate result on a wheel dyno, so I don't agreee that pretty much everyone here knows that the 8 isn't making the 238hp that Mazda claimed, or that pretty much everyone here is honest about that. Given the number of times I have seen folks here try to support that claimed 238hp, I found it amusing that anyone here would care about some claim for a particular Civic. I was inartful in expressing that amusement, grouping everyone in with those who pretend that the RX-8 meets its advertised specs.
Fair enough; I really don't mean to paint all with the same brush, and for that I apologize. Certainly, lots of folks here are realistic about the power of the RX-8, which in any event is adequate by any rational standard. I was just responding to a particular post, calling a particular test a fabrication, while also claiming some stupid things about the S2000. Sorry for being too broad in that post!