Clarkson Dumps on Mustang/Solstice
10-03-2005, 03:02 PM
#101
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Originally Posted by TODreamer
How long ago was that?...
he was saying the corvette guys just blow by people on the straights and go slow in the corners.
there were some fast vettes there and some had good drivers but probably some of the drivers were not as good.
Last edited by Matt RX8; 10-03-2005 at 05:39 PM.
10-03-2005, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
Friend, for that price the Mustang is pretty much the fastest car on the road...with it's meger 300HP. The only cars faster are much lighter or have an extra 100HP.
While...for the record, I don't trust Ford with that 300HP number...the power per weight ratio does not match up with the times the Mustang gets, but maybe that old style axle really does wonders.
The new mustang is not as good as American mag's make it out to be, but it's not as bad as Clarkson makes it out to be either.
I WELCOME THE RETURN OF THE CAMARO!!!
While...for the record, I don't trust Ford with that 300HP number...the power per weight ratio does not match up with the times the Mustang gets, but maybe that old style axle really does wonders.
The new mustang is not as good as American mag's make it out to be, but it's not as bad as Clarkson makes it out to be either.
I WELCOME THE RETURN OF THE CAMARO!!!
Maybe I should clarify,
I wasnt referring to the 300hp and judging that as "low" or "meager" I was referring more to the inefficiency of the engine. a V8 pumping only 300 hp is a waste of pistons really. The latest version of the "Japanese Muscle" Fairlady Z (or 350 as they call it in America) makes that much hp from a V6.
I dont think Road & Track gave it a glowing review either. Most of the reviews Ive seen, goes something like...
It looked daaaaaamn nice.
And its cheap!
Who cares about anything else.
Which is just about right.
10-04-2005, 12:58 AM
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Clarkson definatly has a bias, but it just affects the way he states things. I still think the meat of what he says is generally spot on. Even in that mustang article after all the bad things he said he still considered buying one. However, the mustang's problems are real. It's way to big, it doesnt drive or handle all that nice, and for 300hp it doesn't seem as fast as it should be. Now compare this to the GTO (Monaro) which he LOVES. Although technically Australian it's designed with the same philosophy as the Mustang, but it just works better(in his opinion). If the Mustang was worthy, he would heap all the praise on it that he does on the GTO. Alas the stang is flawed and he lets you know it. I don't see anything wrong with that. The way american mags have written about the Mustang you'd think it was sacrelidge to say anything bad about it. They tiptoe around all the issues between paragraphs on the "great retro styling" and "the Mustang Legend". Because you know it has that "gotta have it factor!" It's wretch worthy.
As far as Clarkson seeming to not factor cost, I don't think that's the case. He just likes quality cars. It doesn't matter that it's the cheapest car to 300hp if it's not put together well/doesn't handle/isn't all that fun to drive. My guess is that his opinion is to either go out and buy a good car with 300+hp (Monaro, Evo), or realise you can't afford one and go buy a good fun car in your price range like the GTi (which he also loves).
As far as Clarkson seeming to not factor cost, I don't think that's the case. He just likes quality cars. It doesn't matter that it's the cheapest car to 300hp if it's not put together well/doesn't handle/isn't all that fun to drive. My guess is that his opinion is to either go out and buy a good car with 300+hp (Monaro, Evo), or realise you can't afford one and go buy a good fun car in your price range like the GTi (which he also loves).
10-04-2005, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by map
Clarkson definatly has a bias, but it just affects the way he states things. I still think the meat of what he says is generally spot on. Even in that mustang article after all the bad things he said he still considered buying one. However, the mustang's problems are real. It's way to big, it doesnt drive or handle all that nice, and for 300hp it doesn't seem as fast as it should be. Now compare this to the GTO (Monaro) which he LOVES. Although technically Australian it's designed with the same philosophy as the Mustang, but it just works better(in his opinion). If the Mustang was worthy, he would heap all the praise on it that he does on the GTO. Alas the stang is flawed and he lets you know it. I don't see anything wrong with that. The way american mags have written about the Mustang you'd think it was sacrelidge to say anything bad about it. They tiptoe around all the issues between paragraphs on the "great retro styling" and "the Mustang Legend". Because you know it has that "gotta have it factor!" It's wretch worthy.
As far as Clarkson seeming to not factor cost, I don't think that's the case. He just likes quality cars. It doesn't matter that it's the cheapest car to 300hp if it's not put together well/doesn't handle/isn't all that fun to drive. My guess is that his opinion is to either go out and buy a good car with 300+hp (Monaro, Evo), or realise you can't afford one and go buy a good fun car in your price range like the GTi (which he also loves).
As far as Clarkson seeming to not factor cost, I don't think that's the case. He just likes quality cars. It doesn't matter that it's the cheapest car to 300hp if it's not put together well/doesn't handle/isn't all that fun to drive. My guess is that his opinion is to either go out and buy a good car with 300+hp (Monaro, Evo), or realise you can't afford one and go buy a good fun car in your price range like the GTi (which he also loves).
10-04-2005, 07:27 AM
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WARNING: rx8wannahave's Christian filter is broken for the following comment
Is this guy...slightly, sorry if this is harsh...stupid? Has he seen the numbers on the Z06? This guy sounds pretty ignorant...in my opinion
Here are the numbers for those who don't know, I have MT right in front of me:
Price: $65,800 (probably be sold for 70K)
Engine: 7L V8 OHV 24V 505HP 470lb-ft
Weight: 3147 lb
Tranny: 6-speed
0-60: 3.5 sec
1/2 mile: 11.5 @ 127.1 mph
Breaking 0-60ft: 104 feet
Lateral Acceleration: 1.05g
EPA: 19/28
Note: Show me something at that price, with that amount of HP and speed, making those EPA numbers...and out breaking and basically do anything better than the Vette.
Oh yes my friends....for the money, this IS THE BEST DANG SPORTS CAR IN THE WORLD...hands down! (In my opinion...since BlueEyes will come and complain...lol):p
So that English guy...is an idiot! Sorry...I'm not being nice...I HIGHLY disagree with that guy and just point me in his direction so I can take the LOG out of his butt.
he was saying the corvette guys just blow by people on the straights and go slow in the corners.
Here are the numbers for those who don't know, I have MT right in front of me:
Price: $65,800 (probably be sold for 70K)
Engine: 7L V8 OHV 24V 505HP 470lb-ft
Weight: 3147 lb
Tranny: 6-speed
0-60: 3.5 sec
1/2 mile: 11.5 @ 127.1 mph
Breaking 0-60ft: 104 feet
Lateral Acceleration: 1.05g
EPA: 19/28
Note: Show me something at that price, with that amount of HP and speed, making those EPA numbers...and out breaking and basically do anything better than the Vette.
Oh yes my friends....for the money, this IS THE BEST DANG SPORTS CAR IN THE WORLD...hands down! (In my opinion...since BlueEyes will come and complain...lol):p
So that English guy...is an idiot! Sorry...I'm not being nice...I HIGHLY disagree with that guy and just point me in his direction so I can take the LOG out of his butt.
10-04-2005, 07:33 AM
#106
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I wasnt referring to the 300hp and judging that as "low" or "meager" I was referring more to the inefficiency of the engine.
Well, while I can understand that if you really look at it. The Ford V8 get's about the same fuel economy as the Nissan V6 and has more torque. You would think that in the very least the V6 would have significant fuel economy benefits when that's not the case...per their EPA numbers.
But, trust me...I think Ford is pulling a GM on us and this Pony comes in at more like 330HP than 300HP. Again...that's just my opinion because the weight to power ratio for this car does not add up for the speed numbers it gets. But maybe that axle does wonders???
Also, the Mustang is more than slightly faster than the 350Z but in the real world it's not much of a difference.
The 350Z does the 1/2 in 14.2-13.8 and the Mustang does it in 13.5...significant for car guys, but not so much in real world driving.
10-04-2005, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
WARNING: rx8wannahave's Christian filter is broken for the following comment
Is this guy...slightly, sorry if this is harsh...stupid? Has he seen the numbers on the Z06? This guy sounds pretty ignorant...in my opinion
Here are the numbers for those who don't know, I have MT right in front of me:
Price: $65,800 (probably be sold for 70K)
Engine: 7L V8 OHV 24V 505HP 470lb-ft
Weight: 3147 lb
Tranny: 6-speed
0-60: 3.5 sec
1/2 mile: 11.5 @ 127.1 mph
Breaking 0-60ft: 104 feet
Lateral Acceleration: 1.05g
EPA: 19/28
Note: Show me something at that price, with that amount of HP and speed, making those EPA numbers...and out breaking and basically do anything better than the Vette.
Oh yes my friends....for the money, this IS THE BEST DANG SPORTS CAR IN THE WORLD...hands down! (In my opinion...since BlueEyes will come and complain...lol):p
So that English guy...is an idiot! Sorry...I'm not being nice...I HIGHLY disagree with that guy and just point me in his direction so I can take the LOG out of his butt.
Is this guy...slightly, sorry if this is harsh...stupid? Has he seen the numbers on the Z06? This guy sounds pretty ignorant...in my opinion
Here are the numbers for those who don't know, I have MT right in front of me:
Price: $65,800 (probably be sold for 70K)
Engine: 7L V8 OHV 24V 505HP 470lb-ft
Weight: 3147 lb
Tranny: 6-speed
0-60: 3.5 sec
1/2 mile: 11.5 @ 127.1 mph
Breaking 0-60ft: 104 feet
Lateral Acceleration: 1.05g
EPA: 19/28
Note: Show me something at that price, with that amount of HP and speed, making those EPA numbers...and out breaking and basically do anything better than the Vette.
Oh yes my friends....for the money, this IS THE BEST DANG SPORTS CAR IN THE WORLD...hands down! (In my opinion...since BlueEyes will come and complain...lol):p
So that English guy...is an idiot! Sorry...I'm not being nice...I HIGHLY disagree with that guy and just point me in his direction so I can take the LOG out of his butt.
That's just it you see. Real racers don't need all that power to go fast. They can go fast in anything. It's like the Bob Hall quote about going fast with 90hp. That's why you don't need a Corvette until you are too old to race. Get it?
Last edited by Matt RX8; 10-04-2005 at 09:26 AM.
10-04-2005, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Machan
That's just it you see. Real racers don't need all that power to go fast. They can go fast in anything. It's like the Bob Hall quote about going fast with 90hp. That's why you don't need a Corvette until you are too old to race. Get it?
Would he say the same thing about a Ferrari or a Lambo or a Carrera GT? arent they oozing with power as well?
oh I found tyhe link for the C6 ... lol
Mr Clarkson don't like you "yanks" too much lol
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...5587_1,00.html
10-04-2005, 10:06 AM
#110
Originally Posted by Machan
That's just it you see. Real racers don't need all that power to go fast. They can go fast in anything. It's like the Bob Hall quote about going fast with 90hp. That's why you don't need a Corvette until you are too old to race. Get it?
10-04-2005, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
a 90 hp race car would bore the snot out of me. You can't go fast with 90 hp. Fast considering you only have 90 hp, sure, but fast, hell no.
How about a spec Miata? A good driver in a Spec Miata can pass a ton of more powerful cars at certain tracks.
That clarkson review of the C6 is hilarious. May favorites are really to America as the "Land of the Stomach" and calling the C6 “Left-hand drive, vulgar plastic rubbish.”
He actually liked the C6 though.
Last edited by Matt RX8; 10-04-2005 at 10:31 AM.
10-04-2005, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Machan
That clarkson review of the C6 is hilarious. May favorites are really to America as the "Land of the Stomach" and calling the C6 “Left-hand drive, vulgar plastic rubbish.”
He actually liked the C6 though.
He actually liked the C6 though.
Funny as hell though LMAO ... :D
Last edited by TODreamer; 10-04-2005 at 10:40 AM.
10-04-2005, 10:37 AM
#114
those things have nearly twice the power, 170 I think. But, sure, depending on the track, a spec miata could pass a bunch of more powerful, heavy, poorly set up cars. Set a spec miata up with 300 whp and which would win? power isn't the evil people make it out to be. I hear a lot of this low power, good racer stuff out of people with low power cars. As long as you tires can put it on the ground, power is your freind.
10-04-2005, 10:38 AM
#115
Originally Posted by TODreamer
Admit it Machan.... This guy just don't like Americans for the most part. He clearly goes out of his way to put you guys down...you see the first page of that C6 review? that was absolutely nothing to do with cars and was just a flat out yankee attack.
Funny as hell though LMAO ... :D
Funny as hell though LMAO ... :D
10-04-2005, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
. I hear a lot of this low power, good racer stuff out of people with low power cars. As long as you tires can put it on the ground, power is your freind.
Agreed whole heartedly... "power" is always the first thing to get dumped on no matter what you are talking about...
"sure is has power but ... blah blah blah" ... just because it has power, doesnt make it a sin and it doesnt always mean it cant do anything else.
10-04-2005, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TODreamer
Admit it Machan.... This guy just don't like Americans for the most part. He clearly goes out of his way to put you guys down..you see the first page of that C6 review? that was absolutely nothing to do with cars and was just a flat out yankee attack. If he dont like you guys... fine.. hes entitled to his own opinion, but this is what I think is responsible for his "skewed" reviews
Funny as hell though LMAO ... :D
Funny as hell though LMAO ... :D
10-04-2005, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
power isn't the evil people make it out to be. I hear a lot of this low power, good racer stuff out of people with low power cars. As long as you tires can put it on the ground, power is your freind.
I agree that 90 hp is probably too little. Probably somewhere closer to 200 hp is where cars start to look interesting to me. I've had a 165 hp Ford Probe GT that was a blast to drive and also had a 165 hp Mondeo Ghia that was pretty fun too.
10-04-2005, 11:21 AM
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Why should I leave the choice to a bunch of tobacco-chewing backwoodsmen who aren’t even bright enough to mark the voting papers properly?
But no; our fate is in the hands of a people whose IQ is generally smaller than their waistbands. A people who’ve trawled their 263m citizens and come up with Bush and super-chin as the alternatives. A people whose soldiers wear sunglasses while trying to defuse trouble on the streets of Baghdad.
America has never really made a sports car, because while we were hanging it out to dry on Welsh moorland roads, or Alpine passes, they were racing between the lights on Telegraph Road
It’s a car with arms like Schwarzenegger but a ***** like a shrivelled-up little acorn.
But no; our fate is in the hands of a people whose IQ is generally smaller than their waistbands. A people who’ve trawled their 263m citizens and come up with Bush and super-chin as the alternatives. A people whose soldiers wear sunglasses while trying to defuse trouble on the streets of Baghdad.
America has never really made a sports car, because while we were hanging it out to dry on Welsh moorland roads, or Alpine passes, they were racing between the lights on Telegraph Road
It’s a car with arms like Schwarzenegger but a ***** like a shrivelled-up little acorn.
What a double standard...people are such hypocrites!!!
Also, guess what, I just banned Top Gear from my house. What value does this guy have as a writer with his obvious bias towards everything American. He insulted our people and rates all cars by the "it's OK I guess for an American product"...so, if I want an arrogant and ignorant opinion I'll ask the KKK.
I'll stop my rant there...before I insult some of our British friends...
What an *** this guy is! How does this guy still have a job...oh that's right, he is just feeding the America hate that is going around in the world now a days. I honestly feel that we should just tell the world to go...eat our shorts to be nice, and allow the terrorist of the world and next Hitlers, and Saddam's to do their thing.
Your dammed if you do...and your dammed if you don't! People will always find criticizing and tearing people/nations down more fun than supporting and building people/nations up.
Last edited by rx8wannahave; 10-04-2005 at 11:26 AM.
10-04-2005, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
How can any American not feel insulted by this guy? If an American said things even remotely similar they would be asking for his head yet this guy can insult the whole nation yet...he is just being funny.
What a double standard...people are such hypocrites!!!
Also, guess what, I just banned Top Gear from my house. What value does this guy have as a writer with his obvious bias towards everything American. He insulted our people and rates all cars by the "it's OK I guess for an American product"...so, if I want an arrogant and ignorant opinion I'll ask the KKK.
I'll stop my rant there...before I insult some of our British friends...
What an *** this guy is! How does this guy still have a job...oh that's right, he is just feeding the America hate that is going around in the world now a days. I honestly feel that we should just tell the world to go...eat our shorts to be nice, and allow the terrorist of the world and next Hitlers, and Saddam's to do their thing.
Your dammed if you do...and your dammed if you don't! People will always find criticizing and tearing people/nations down more fun than supporting and building people/nations up.
What a double standard...people are such hypocrites!!!
Also, guess what, I just banned Top Gear from my house. What value does this guy have as a writer with his obvious bias towards everything American. He insulted our people and rates all cars by the "it's OK I guess for an American product"...so, if I want an arrogant and ignorant opinion I'll ask the KKK.
I'll stop my rant there...before I insult some of our British friends...
What an *** this guy is! How does this guy still have a job...oh that's right, he is just feeding the America hate that is going around in the world now a days. I honestly feel that we should just tell the world to go...eat our shorts to be nice, and allow the terrorist of the world and next Hitlers, and Saddam's to do their thing.
Your dammed if you do...and your dammed if you don't! People will always find criticizing and tearing people/nations down more fun than supporting and building people/nations up.
lol... just watch/read him for the comedy and irony... thats what I do.. hes a clown.
If I seriously want a good and informed opinion on a car I'll look elsewhere
10-04-2005, 11:59 AM
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Because some of us have a sense of humour.
TODreamer...I know what you mean, but now I wonder how many of his "opinions" bash the US?
Besides, I work pretty early and I don't think Top Gear is worth staying up for...
10-04-2005, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by himitsu
Maybe I should clarify,
I wasnt referring to the 300hp and judging that as "low" or "meager" I was referring more to the inefficiency of the engine. a V8 pumping only 300 hp is a waste of pistons really. The latest version of the "Japanese Muscle" Fairlady Z (or 350 as they call it in America) makes that much hp from a V6.
I dont think Road & Track gave it a glowing review either. Most of the reviews Ive seen, goes something like...
It looked daaaaaamn nice.
And its cheap!
Who cares about anything else.
Which is just about right.
I wasnt referring to the 300hp and judging that as "low" or "meager" I was referring more to the inefficiency of the engine. a V8 pumping only 300 hp is a waste of pistons really. The latest version of the "Japanese Muscle" Fairlady Z (or 350 as they call it in America) makes that much hp from a V6.
I dont think Road & Track gave it a glowing review either. Most of the reviews Ive seen, goes something like...
It looked daaaaaamn nice.
And its cheap!
Who cares about anything else.
Which is just about right.
Handling... all of you whom whine and complain... how many of you have ever owned and MODDED a Mustang? None? Well there you go. Especially with this new platform, try slipping some coilovers on it with some sticky rubber and come back and tell me what you think of it's handling then. Apparantly it does well enough in pro and amateur racing (not drag)... it can't be as bad as you all make it out to be.
Last edited by Japan8; 10-04-2005 at 09:00 PM. Reason: opps... typo
10-04-2005, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
I don't know...if I joked like he does the lynch mob would be nocking on my door within an hour...
TODreamer...I know what you mean, but now I wonder how many of his "opinions" bash the US?
Besides, I work pretty early and I don't think Top Gear is worth staying up for...
TODreamer...I know what you mean, but now I wonder how many of his "opinions" bash the US?
Besides, I work pretty early and I don't think Top Gear is worth staying up for...
Okay, well if this is the case: if he really will be my leader, why can’t I have a vote? Why should I leave the choice to a bunch of tobacco-chewing backwoodsmen who aren’t even bright enough to mark the voting papers properly?
I mean it. If the president of the United States really does think he’s the leader of the free world, then the free world should have a say in who gets the job. That’s me, you, every Indian, every Russian, every German. And yes, every Iraqi too. All of us.
But no; our fate is in the hands of a people whose IQ is generally smaller than their waistbands. A people who’ve trawled their 263m citizens and come up with Bush and super-chin as the alternatives. A people whose soldiers wear sunglasses while trying to defuse trouble on the streets of Baghdad. You’re not Jean-Claude Van Damme, you idiots. Take them off. Let them see your eyes. Or are you like the president? Do you only have one?
I mean it. If the president of the United States really does think he’s the leader of the free world, then the free world should have a say in who gets the job. That’s me, you, every Indian, every Russian, every German. And yes, every Iraqi too. All of us.
But no; our fate is in the hands of a people whose IQ is generally smaller than their waistbands. A people who’ve trawled their 263m citizens and come up with Bush and super-chin as the alternatives. A people whose soldiers wear sunglasses while trying to defuse trouble on the streets of Baghdad. You’re not Jean-Claude Van Damme, you idiots. Take them off. Let them see your eyes. Or are you like the president? Do you only have one?