Baller

"With respect"
Come on let's be nice, I was never talking bad about you or anyone else.

I have owned GM cars including F-bodies and without exception the quaility of those cars have been the worst, paint with orange peel, wide gaps. GM still builds piles, even at employee prices.

RX-GR8

cmon big guy. camaros and birds are no longer made because the market isn't there for them. explain why they lasted so long the if they're piles? :D

Baller

Remember, there is a sucker born every min.

The new Mustang is sold out, try to find a GT, a true success story....it also has a SOHC engine, no pushrods. Must be a market.

I guess I just don't like GM because I have been burned in the past......the last was a H-2 Hummer.....Junk....

Good to hear from ya man (RX-GR8)

shelleys_man_06

Don't feel bad. The last GM car my family had was a Nova. The Spanish were right. It doesn't go. We've gone import and haven't looked back. Doesn't mean all domestic cars are bad.

I don't think people care whether it has one cam for each cylinder bank. People want the Mustang GT because of the numbers 300 and $25000, though there are better values out there.

Baller

300 and 25K is the magic number indeed....

RX-GR8

and yet ford is on the verge of bankruptcy.

Baller

Yes, because of all of those RX-8 engines they have to replace...........

Sigma

Ford isn't doing that badly.

It only lost $245M last quarter on its' auto business, and made $1.3B profit on financing, for an overall profit just shy of $1 Billion for the Quarter. That's not horrible, it's still making decent money, just not on selling cars.

GM on the other hand lost a whopping $1.2B on its' auto business and only managed to make $900M in profit on its' financing, for an overall loss of $300M last quarter.

Of course, to compare, Toyota made $2.4B profit last quarter.

Baller

Out of all of the US automakers there is no doubt Ford has the better idea and products.
I really can't think of one GM product that I would own............Ok a 1967 427, 435 hp Stingray that I had in 1988, now that was a ride.

GM or EMD also produces the worlds best locomotives, so I would own a new EMD 70mac.

nzarnow

Hey, Baller, you do know that the current GTO is built at Holden, Manaro right? It is not really a GM car. The interior is completely different from normal GM cars and has been rated extremely high. From the seats to the leather and controls all the reviews love it. It does perfectly for what it is trying to do. Also, you can get GTO's for around 25-27k right now with discounts and incentives. So compared to your magic mustang 25k 300hp number you can up it to 400hp...

You say you don't like GM cars? What the hell is wrong with the new caddys? The V-Series? Not to mention the new Z06 being the fastest production vehicle for under 100k coming out. Don't bash a product soley on what happend 20 years ago or even 5. If you did that then what do you think about Hyundai?

timbo

Well, Holden is GM in Australia, and they were bold enough to develop the Monaro/GTO and build a market for it. But basically, it has the chassis/body/mechanicals of a pretty average Australian taxi There's been a lot of development work on suspension and so-on, but basically, this is a great car....in a straight line A recent car mag here (Motor) ran a comparo between the basic Monaro (V-8, 269Kw...sorry am not into hp) and the RX-8, and concluded the 8 was the better car ...even though the Monaro out-accelerated it. Why? Because the 8 is so much more

Sigma

Railroader or just a Foamer?

<-- works for BNSF.

But, yes, I wholeheartedly agree. Although GM doesn't own EMD anymore. They sold them off a few months ago to a private holding company.

Sigma

I don't know where you got that idea. But go to a dealer and try that.

There's no rebates at all on the GTOs currently. It was under the Employee Pricing Plan for one month but was selling so well that it was removed.

If you're eligible for GMS pricing it's invoice price at $30,600, no rebates. And if you're not eligible for it, most people get about $32,500 -- only about $1000 off sticker.

No way in hell you're getting an '05 GTO for $8000 under sticker. It's selling WAY better than the '04s and is one of the few, if not only, GM vehicle outside of the Corvette to sell without any rebates right now.

The best deal that anyone on LS1GTO has been able to get is $28000, and that's because they bought it during that 1 month of Employee Pricing and had $2500 in credits on their GM Card. Without a GM Card and years of saved up discounts, you're not going to get a GTO for less than $30K, plus TTL, plus since it's selling so well their high interest rate of 7% on the GTO if you don't have your own financings.

Baller

Hoghead, years ago when SD40-2's were king of the rails.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

huh? numbers please?

Ford and GM (well GM especially) lose money because they just don't get it, I give credit to Ford though for heading in the right direction as the GT is awesome, and the Mustang is finally ok to look at and priced pretty decent as well. If Ford brought the 49 I'd be really stoked but oh well, why build stuff other than pickups anyway right? GM has me completely and utterly baffled, it's like they have some decent ideas that just get squashed right before production. I'll give you some examples:

SSR- a lot of people hate this thing, I liked it at first and then.....bam! "hey, let's sell it for close to 50k!" what?! Why oh why would you price a weekend toy that close to the vette? If the SSR had come out for about 25-30 grand it would sell.

"SS" anything - Really the one that kills me is the "SS" pickup. Whatever happened to actually competing with other automakers? The Ford Lightning came out and Chevy took notice...and...then...oh wait, we'll build an SS! Er, well...the SS has 4 doors (?!?) and weighs aLOT, is frickin' ugly, toooooo expen$ive...again...this seems to be a recurring theme here. I won't even get into the performance as it was quite a far cry from the blistering lightning.
There's the other "SS" cars like the cobalt (ugh) and the impalibu. How in the hell could you ever call a FWD V6 an Impala? honestly, when people used to hear Impala they knew the drill, big muscle, RWD, definitely a respectable car. (the 59 is my fave year, love the batmobile fins in the back) Now it's just a wannabe' Accord if anything, gone is the V8, the RWD, the rep etc. what a travesty.

killing the Camaro/Ws6 etc. - why do away with this and not replace it with ANYthing?!?!?! are you insane?! Has anyone counted how many Camaros are out on the road today? Back in the day, you could have a V8 for under 30 grand, if they'd have kept it or at least replaced it with something similarly priced etc. they would make a killing...but...no....we get the gto and a bunch of V6 boring **** ugly mobiles.

and then there's the whole SUV thing, has anyone seen a more bland and boring vehicle than Chevy/GM's lineup of trucks? It's no wonder people can't drive them, they're fighting to stay awake behind the wheel! So they may have the Solstice/Sky coming out and maybe they have other cars that might be attention worthy, but it's almost a guarantee that the final version will look nothing like the concepts and probably be priced through the roof as well.

Maybe there is really no such thing as an American car anymore, but if I were to buy "american" again, it would be a Dodge. Dodge has all the bases covered, from pocket rocket (SRT4) to world class sports car (Viper) to affordably priced torque monsters like the V8 Magnum, 300c etc. Their cars are exciting, reputable, and they aren't afraid to take chances. (A V10 powered truck that does 0-60 faster than a lot of cars for example) Gm should take some notes from them and give us something other than the C6 to be excited about...but.....we'll see.....

Baller

First off I was just kidding,
Dodge is a good bet, but it is owned by the Germans (D. Benz)
You are right of course there are a few cool "American" cars out there.