Corvette ZR1 Beats GTR time at Nurburgring Already!
07-01-2008 | 03:19 AM
#51
rotary courage
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,208
Likes: 0
From: :uoıʇɐɔoן
Although I would never spend my own money on one, I think you still have to give the vette the respect it deserves.
But I don't think comparing the GT-R to it is really apples to apples, since the GT-R is a 4-seater with more practicality, and the Vette is a 2-seater with much less storage space.... It's kind of like comparing an Exige S to an M3.
But I don't think comparing the GT-R to it is really apples to apples, since the GT-R is a 4-seater with more practicality, and the Vette is a 2-seater with much less storage space.... It's kind of like comparing an Exige S to an M3.
07-01-2008 | 08:02 AM
#52
Rotary Newbie
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Although I would never spend my own money on one, I think you still have to give the vette the respect it deserves.
But I don't think comparing the GT-R to it is really apples to apples, since the GT-R is a 4-seater with more practicality, and the Vette is a 2-seater with much less storage space.... It's kind of like comparing an Exige S to an M3.
But I don't think comparing the GT-R to it is really apples to apples, since the GT-R is a 4-seater with more practicality, and the Vette is a 2-seater with much less storage space.... It's kind of like comparing an Exige S to an M3.
07-01-2008 | 08:50 AM
#53
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
I wish Ferrari weren't above crushing Nissan and GM.... Both Nissan and GM have sent their fastest most powerful production cars ever to the ring backed by pro drivers.
If Ferrari did the same it would look something like this car and this guy driving:
And then no one would care about ZR1 and GTR times anymore...
If Ferrari did the same it would look something like this car and this guy driving:
And then no one would care about ZR1 and GTR times anymore...
07-01-2008 | 08:55 AM
#54
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
damn ure so smart 
I already knew about that, I've been following the NSX for a while, might even end up buying a used one as my next car as I've been in love with them forever. However, the last gen NSX had an msrp of 90,000 dollars for a US model, and it wasn't anywhere near the ZR-1's lap time, and the "new one" is not out so it's irrelevant anyway. I'm still waiting for the modern RWD Japanese sportscar that's supposed to get similar times to the ZR-1 on the ring, so where is it?
I already knew about that, I've been following the NSX for a while, might even end up buying a used one as my next car as I've been in love with them forever. However, the last gen NSX had an msrp of 90,000 dollars for a US model, and it wasn't anywhere near the ZR-1's lap time, and the "new one" is not out so it's irrelevant anyway. I'm still waiting for the modern RWD Japanese sportscar that's supposed to get similar times to the ZR-1 on the ring, so where is it?
07-01-2008 | 10:39 AM
#55
The Prototype
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 0
I am not getting into this pissing contest. But here are the official lap times for the RING.... very interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch..._car_lap_times
For those of you that are lazy....
[edit] Production car lap times
Length Best Lap Times Make Model Power/Weight Driver Date Source Notes
6:53 Ariel Atom 500 500 PS/500 kg
6:55 Radical SR8 360 PS/650 kg Michael Vergers 2005-09-28 Video
7:18 Donkervoort D8 RS 370 PS/670 kg Michael Düchting Sport Auto 12/04
7:24 Lexus LF-A ~552 PS/~1360 kg 2007-12-28 Auto Express
Winding Road
Unofficial time measured by bystanders at the track
7:25 Nissan GT-R V-Spec ~551 PS/~1590 kg 2008-04-08 Car Magazine autoblog.com Unofficial time measured by bystanders at the track
7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 638 HP/1519 kg Jim Mero 2008-06-27 *manufacturer claim. Strong headwind on main straight. electronically timed and confirmed with two hand-held stopwatches.
7:27.82 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 650 PS/1230 kg 2007-09 video Semi-wet conditions.
7:29.03 Nissan GT-R 480 hp/1740 kg Toshio Suzuki 2008-04-16 Best Motoring 07/08 video NISSAN Press release Standard run-flat tires. Dry Track.
7:32.02 Porsche 911 GT2 2008 530 PS/1440 kg Walter Röhrl 2007 *manufacturer claim.Motor Authority,
video
Semi-slicks tires.
7:32.44 Porsche Carrera GT 612 PS/1380 kg Horst Von Saurma Sport Auto
7:34 Koenigsegg CCR 817 PS/1180 kg Horst von Saurma 2005-10-17 Sport Auto Cold conditions
7:35 RUF RT12 659 hp/1573 kg Sport Auto
7:40 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 626 PS /1768 kg Klaus Ludwig AutoBild
7:42 Ford GT 550 PS/1521 kg Octane Magazine
7:42 Porsche 911 GT3 415 PS/1440 kg Walter Röhrl Automobil 05/06 sport auto 05/06
7:42.9 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 505 hp / 1450 kg Jan Magnussen 2005 Motor Trend[8] Muggy conditions
7:43 Porsche 996 GT3 RS 381 hp/1360 kg "Motor" magazine
7:44 Pagani Zonda S 550 PS/1280 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 02/05
7:46 Porsche 911 GT2 462 PS/1450 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 06/01
7:47 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 381 PS/1321 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 08/04
7:47 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 620 PS/1690 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto
7:47 Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 E-gear 640 PS/n/a Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 01/07 Sport tyres
7:49 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 512 ps / 1440 kg Horst von Saurma 2007-06-22 Sport Auto
7:50 BMW M3 CSL 360 PS/1421 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 08/03
7:50 BMW X5 E53 LM Hans-Joachim Stuck 2000 EVO magazine 08/2005 BMW M70 S70B56 engine from a V12 LMR producing 750 bhp
7:54 Mercedes CLK DTM AMG 582 PS/1678 kg Sport Auto 03/05
7:55 Caterham R500 Superlight 233 PS/460 kg Robert Nearn EVO magazine 07/2000
7:55 Ferrari F430 F1 490 PS/1493 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 01/06
7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 405 PS/1409.1 KG (3100 lb) Dave Hill [1]
7:56 Honda NSX-R (NA2) 280 PS/1270 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best MOTORing 08/02 Omit the safe equipment model No Airbags No ESC No Spare tire
7:56 Porsche 911 Turbo 420 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 06/00
7:56 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale f1 Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 02/04 Sport tyres
7:59* Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51 405 PS/1481 kg driver Dave Hill *manufacturer claim.
7:59 Cadillac CTS-V (2nd Generation) ~550 HP/ ~4200 John Heinricy 2008-05-09 manufacturer claim[2]
7:59 Porsche 911 Carrera S Walter Röhrl WHEELS 06/04 PASM setting “Performance”
7:59 Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 Dirk Schoysmans Autocar magazine 1997 Without speed limiter
7:59 Dodge Viper SRT-10 2005-11 Motor Trend
8:01 Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 280 PS/1540 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best Motoring - Video Special DVD Series Prototype (weight/horsepower different from production car)
8:02 Mercedes CLK 63 AMG - Black Series 507 PS/ 1790 kg Autobild 07/07
8:03 Aston Martin V8 Vantage (2005) 380 bhp/1570 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 10/05
8:03 Porsche 911 GT3 360 PS/1391 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 08/99
8:03 Honda NSX-R (NA1) 280 PS/1230 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best MOTORing 02/06 Omit the safe equipment model No Airbags No ESC No Spare tire
8:04 Audi R8 420 PS/1595 kg Sport Auto 07/07
8:05 BMW M3 E92 420 PS/1608 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/07
8:06 Subaru WRX STi Spec-C 280 PS/1370 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best Motoring Video "NISMO Beast Unleashed"
8:07 BMW Z8 E52 400 PS/1615 kg autobild.de 06/01
8:09 Audi RS4 420 PS sport auto 06/2006
8:09 BMW M6 E63 507 PS/n/a Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/05 Sport tyres, limited to 259 km/h
8:09 Honda NSX-R 320 PS/1467 kg Sport Auto 08/02 Sport tires, suspension modification
8:10 Chrysler Viper GTS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 10/97
8:13 BMW M5 E60 507 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/04
8:13 Ferrari 355 GTB Sport Auto 10/1994
8:22* Chevrolet Cobalt SS 2008 2.0 Turbo *manufacturer claim.
8:22 Nissan Skyline GT-R R32 280 PS/1430 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best Motoring Video Special DVD
8:22 BMW M3 E46 343 PS/1584 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/00
8:22 BMW M Coupe E36/7 321 PS/1445 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 10/98
8:24 Audi S5 354 PS/1718 kg * Sport Auto 01/08
8:24 Subaru Impreza Sport Auto 05/04 Sport tires
8:25 Lotus Exige S 243 PS/xxx kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto
8:25 Jaguar XKR Horst von Saurma Sport Auto
8:25 Porsche Cayman S Horst von Saurma Sport Auto
8:24 Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VI Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 11/99 Sport tires
8:25 Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VII Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 11/02 Sport tires
8:26 BMW 335i E92 Coupe 306 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 306 hp
8:26 Nissan 350Z 290 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 10/03
8:28 Porsche 911 Carrera (993) 272 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 07/97
8:32 Porsche Boxster S 252 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/99
8:38 Honda NSX Sport Auto, 08/97
8:39 Honda S2000 Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 01/00
8:39 Mazdaspeed3(MPS) 260 PS/1403 kg Mark Ticehurst 2007 Mazda News 06/07[9] Driver inexperienced on track.
8:40 Chevrolet Corvette C5 automatic 344 PS/1505 kg Sport Auto 07/97 Crash involving civilian later in the lap
8:42 Lotus Exige Mk1 179PS/796KG Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 11/00 Sport tires
8:47 Honda Civic Type-R 200PS/1204KG Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 11/01
8:49 Volkswagen Golf R32 250PS/1591KG Sport Auto 09/06
8:51 Ford Focus ST 225PS/1330KG Sport Auto 09/05
8:53 Volkswagen Golf GTi DSG Mk5 200PS/1421KG Sport Auto 11/05
8:54 Vauxhall Corsa VXR 192PS/1262KG Sport Auto 04/08
9:05 Ford Focus RS 215PS/1355KG Sport Auto 09/05
9:12 Jaguar S-Type Diesel 208PS/1722kg Sabine Schmitz Top Gear episode of Top Gear, (Series 5, Episode 5 Bridge to Gantry)[3]
9:59 Jaguar S-Type Diesel 208PS/1722kg Jeremy Clarkson Top Gear episode of Top Gear, (Series 5, Episode 5 Bridge to Gantry)[3]
10:08 Ford Transit (van) Sabine Schmitz Top Gear episode of Top Gear, (Series 6, episode 7; Bridge to Gantry)
[edit] Official Lap Times in Competitions
General Note: International motorsport sanctioning bodies used the 20.832 km Nordschleife variant in 1983 only.
[edit] Qualifying Times
Length Time Make Model Class Driver Date Source Notes
20832 m 6:11.13 Porsche 956 Gr. C Stefan Bellof 28 May 1983 n/a 2nd qualifier (and winner) in same event (199.005 km/h)
22835 m 6:58.6 Ferrari 312B3 F1 Niki Lauda 2 August 1975 [4] [5] pole-position for 1975 German Grand Prix
22835 m 7:06.5 McLaren M23-Ford F1 James Hunt 31 July 1976 [6] pole-position for 1976 German Grand Prix
22835 m 7:08.59 Ford Capri Zakspeed Turbo Gr. 5 Klaus Niedzwiedz 4 July 1982 [7] Pole-pos Großer Preis der Tourenwagen
22835 m 7:30.52 Ford Capri Zakspeed Turbo Gr. 5 Klaus Ludwig 30 March 1980 [8] pole-position for 1980 DRM race
22835 m 7:31.7 Porsche 935 K3 Gr. 5 Klaus Ludwig 29 April 1979 [9] pole-position for 1979 Eifelrennen, DRM race
22835 m 7:44.4 Ford Capri Zakspeed Turbo Gr. 5 Hans Heyer 29 April 1979 [9] Fastest Category II car of 1979 Eifelrennen, DRM race
22835 m 7:45.44 BMW 320 Turbo Gr. 5 Hans-Joachim Stuck 30 March 1980 [8] Fastest Category II car of 1980 Eifelrennen, DRM race
22835 m 7:42.1 Brabham BT26A-Ford F1 Jacky Ickx 3 August 1969 [10] pole 1969 German GP, fastest on original bumpy track
22810 m 9:43.1 Mercedes-Benz W154 GP Hermann Lang 24 July 1938 n/a pole-position for 1939 German Grand Prix
22810 m 9:48.4 Mercedes-Benz W154 GP Manfred von Brauchitsch 23 July 1939 n/a pole-position for 1938 German Grand Prix
[edit] Official Lap times in Races
Length Time Make Model Class Driver Date Source Notes
20832 m 6:25.91 Porsche 956 Gr. C Stefan Bellof 29 May 1983 [11] 1983 1000 km Nürburgring
20832 m 6:28.03 March-BMW 832 F2 Christian Danner 24 April 1983 [12] 1983 Eifelrennen (193.272 km/h)
20832 m 7:04 Porsche 996 Turbo Gr. A/GT Uwe Alzen/Arno Klasen 29 May 2003 [13] Castrol-Haugg-Cup 2003 Foto Klasen/Alzen (bettered by 15-25 s during videotaped VLN races on 24.4 km track)
24433 m 8:09.949 Porsche 996 Turbo Gr. A/GT Uwe Alzen/Jürgen Alzen 24 September 2005 [14] VLN 2005 videotaped. Turbo engined discontinued due to rule changes. (179.526 km/h)
25378 m 8:43.367 Porsche 996 GT3-MR Gr. A/GT Lucas Luhr/Timo Bernhard/Mike Rockenfeller/ Marcel Tiemann 18 June 2006 [15] 24 Hours Nürburgring 2006, team set a new overall distance record with 151 laps
25947 m 9:02.206 Dodge Viper GTS-R GT2/24h Peter Zakowski/Pedro Lamy/Robert Lechner 1 June 2003 [16] Fastest lap on longest possible track layout in 24 Hours Nürburgring. Team DQ'd for fuel tank size
22835 m 7:06.4 Ferrari 312B3 F1 Clay Regazzoni 3 August 1975 [17] [18] 1975 German Grand Prix
22835 m 7:06.51 Maurer MM82-BMW F2 Stefan Bellof 25 April 1982 [19] F2 lap record in 1982 Eifelrennen
22835 m 7:10.8 Tyrrell P34-Ford F1 Jody Scheckter 1 August 1976 [20] 1976 German Grand Prix
22835 m 7:37.3 Porsche 935 K3 Gr. 5 Klaus Ludwig 29 April 1979 [9] 1979 Eifelrennen, DRM race (179,760 km/h)
22835 m 7:46.3 Zakspeed Capri Turbo Gr. 5 Hans Heyer 29 April 1979 [9] 1979 Eifelrennen, DRM race (176,290 km/h)
22835 m 7:56.21 Zakspeed Capri Turbo Gr. 5 Harald Ertl 30 March 1980 [8] 1980 DRM race (172,630 km/h)
22835 m 7:43.8 Brabham BT26A-Ford F1 Jacky Ickx 3 August 1969 [21] 1969 German GP, lap record of original bumpy track
22810 m 10:09.1 Mercedes-Benz W154 GP Richard Seaman 24 July 1938 n/a 1938 German Grand Prix
22810 m 10:24.2 Mercedes-Benz W154 GP Rudolf Caracciola 23 July 1939 n/a 1939 German Grand Prix
[edit] Motorcycles, Official Lap Records
Length Time Make Model Rider Date Source Notes
20832 m 7:49.71 Honda RC30 Helmut Dähne 23 May 1993 [22] [23] [24] As motorcycle contests were discontinued after 1994, this remains the fastest officially timed motorcycle lap ever on the 20832 m variant (159.7 km/h). Done in a single lap time trial run during Zuverlässigkeitsfahrt series on road legal VFR750R RC30 and Metzeler ME Z1 tyres.
22835 m 8:22.2 Suzuki 500 Marco Lucchinelli 24 Aug 1980 [25] [26] [27] 1980 German motorcycle Grand Prix (163.6 km/h), fastest motorcycle lap even on 22835 m variant, last Moto-GP held there
[edit] Motorcycles, unofficial times, public sessions
In public sessions, it is not possible to do full laps as it is required to pass the ticket gates. Enthusiasts time themselves from the first Bridge to the last Gantry. These are about 1720 m apart on the main straight, and depending on top speed of the vehicle, this Gantry-to-Bridge section could be covered in under 30 seconds. See also Bridge To Gantry website
Time Make Model Rider Date Source Notes
7:21.8 MV Agusta F4 312R Andy "AndyPath" Carlile 15 Oct 2008 Performance Bikes Magazine January 2008
7:28.8 Yamaha YZF-R1 "The Baron" n/a Performance Bikes Magazine October 2007 n/a
7:32.1 Yamaha YZF-R1 Brendan Keirle n/a Sliders Guest House video lap Aug 2006 Video Here n/a
7:32.6 Aprilia RSV1000R Factory "The Baron" n/a reported in PB Magazine August 2007 n/a
7:35.7 Suzuki GSX-R1000K7 Dale Lomas (Ex-Roadtest Editor of Performance Bikes Magazine) n/a On-board video at BridgeToGantry.com n/a
7:50 Suzuki GSX-R1000 vs Aprilia RSV 1000 Fausto "Faustone" Severi & Helmut Dähne 2002 SuperWheels during a SuperWheels's Pattuglia Acrobatica test
Length Time Make Model Rider Date Source Notes
20832 m 8:12.62 Honda CBR 1000 RR Helmut Dähne Sep 2007 autobild early morning full lap comparison with Walter Röhrl in a Porsche 997 GT2 (7:32)
[edit] Unofficial F1 Lap Record
On 28 April 2007, Nick Heidfeld drove a BMW Sauber F1.06 Formula One car around the Nordschleife, on a BMW publicity day in combination with a VLN 4h endurance race[10]. For safety reasons, BMW announced that the car was slowed with hard demonstration tyres, maximum ride height, and 275 km/h top speed limited by the transmission. Heidfeld drove three laps on the combined Nordschleife and short GP-track, as used in VLN races, with a track length of 24.433 km (so comparison with older records is difficult). The official lap time released by BMW Sauber was declared to be 8:34 (thus ca. 30 secs slower than the fastest Porsche 996 turbo in VLN). The German press duly reported this lap time, yet criticized BMW. In each lap, Heidfeld slowed down once to pose for a slow video truck, at Schwedenkreuz on the first lap 1, Kesselchen in lap 2, and Döttinger Höhe in the last lap. The two time spans in between the three passes of Heidfeld were clocked by some fans around the track, first Wehrseifen to Wehrseifen in about 7:28, then 7:22 from Klostertal to Klostertal, which is over 50 secs quicker than the fastest current Porsche 997 GT3 RSR in VLN. This translates to an average of about 200 km/h, similar to Bellof's record, but considering the slow GP section, Heidfeld probably was faster on the Nordschleife, close to 6 minutes. Fans who respect the official record of the late Stefan Bellof settle for an "estimated 6:12".
Road & Track magazine reported Heidfeld's lap was a 5:57 or 5:58 (for the Nordschleife only), breaking the track's six-minute barrier for the first time in history.[28] However, their times were done by measuring the speed in some corners, and then calculating a laptime, and not timing a full lap. A BMW video montage [11] with onboard, track side and helicopter camera views gives a better estimate of 6 minutes 40 seconds to the last corner.
Heidfeld has since expressed his desire to repeat the experience with less restriction.
According to F1 Racing magazine of June 2006, BMW engineers had estimated that a BMW-Sauber F1.06 could lap in under 5:15.8[29] which equals to an average of 237 km/h.
[edit] Notes and references
^ Ask Dave Hill, December Edition. crossedflags.com. Retrieved on 2008-01-04.
^ Cadillac Drivers' Log - 2009 CTS- V Blisters Nurburgring
^ a b Jaguar S-type diesel at the ring. bbc.co.uk/topgear. Retrieved on 2007-12-30.
^ Lauda had set 7:00.6 the day before, and with 6:58.6 broke the magic barrier of 7 minutes. Carlos Pace was 1,4 sec slower with his Brabham, qualifying second. (translated from German) p.102, Jörg-Thomas Födisch, Robert Ostrovsky: Grüne Hölle Nürburgring, 1995, ISBN 3-922300-53-7
^ Lang, Mike (1983). Grand Prix! Vol 3. Haynes Publishing Group, p91. ISBN 0-85429-380-9.
^ Lang, Mike (1983). Grand Prix! Vol 3. Haynes Publishing Group, p135. ISBN 0-85429-380-9.
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ a b c World Sports Racing Prototypes - DRM 1980
^ a b c d World Sports Racing Prototypes - DRM 1979
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ Statistik: CHC Rundenrekorde Nordschleife 1990 - 2007 [1]
^ Sieg und neuer Rundenrekord für Alzen Motorsport [2]
^ 34. ADAC Zurich 24h-Rennen Nürburgring [3]
^ Corrected Results [4]
^ Regazzoni, starting from third row (with 7:01,6), in lap 7, while on position 2, set a new lap record with (192.79 km/h) 7:06.4. This record will stand forever. (translated from German) p.102, Jörg-Thomas Födisch, Robert Ostrovsky: Grüne Hölle Nürburgring, 1995, ISBN 3-922300-53-7
^ Lang, Mike (1983). Grand Prix! Vol 3. Haynes Publishing Group, p93. ISBN 0-85429-380-9.
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ Lang, Mike (1983). Grand Prix! Vol 3. Haynes Publishing Group, p138. ISBN 0-85429-380-9.
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ Foreword by Helmut Dähne, to Ulrich Thomson: Das Nürburgring Fahrer-Handbuch, 1997, ISBN 3-89365-533-6
^ 7:49,71 - Der Ring. Der Dauerbrenner von Futura. Erleben Sie Helmut Dähne mit der Honda RC 30 auf seiner Rekordrunde auf der Nürburgring-Nordschleife. 7.49.71 die Rekordzeit, die bis zum heutigen Tage von keinem Motorradfahrer gebrochen wurde. Onboard-Video by Futura Video, reenacting the record setting ride [5]
^ Dähne in his red-white leathers, doing a wheelie [6]
^ p.108, Jörg-Thomas Födisch, Robert Ostrovsky: Grüne Hölle Nürburgring, 1995, ISBN 3-922300-53-7
^ Nürburgring - Rekorde
^ Nürburgring - Rekorde
^ Road & Track, Hidden Glory at the Green Hell, May 2007
^ The layout includes 73 corners, and a simulation by BMW has today's BMW-Sauber F1.06 cutting the timing beam in 5m15.80s. - "Jacques at the Nürburgring", F1 Racing magazine, June 2006, p.83 [7]
[edit] External links
Road legal sports car lap times and comparison
Database with lap times of racing events and magazine tests
Castrol-Haugg-Cup lap records of various classes recorded on Nordschleife 1990 - 2006
One of the oldest/largest lists of Nordschleife lap times, with track length and average lap speed
Laptimes achieved in public sessions
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_lap_times"
Categories: Motorsport in Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch..._car_lap_times
For those of you that are lazy....
[edit] Production car lap times
Length Best Lap Times Make Model Power/Weight Driver Date Source Notes
6:53 Ariel Atom 500 500 PS/500 kg
6:55 Radical SR8 360 PS/650 kg Michael Vergers 2005-09-28 Video
7:18 Donkervoort D8 RS 370 PS/670 kg Michael Düchting Sport Auto 12/04
7:24 Lexus LF-A ~552 PS/~1360 kg 2007-12-28 Auto Express
Winding Road
Unofficial time measured by bystanders at the track
7:25 Nissan GT-R V-Spec ~551 PS/~1590 kg 2008-04-08 Car Magazine autoblog.com Unofficial time measured by bystanders at the track
7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 638 HP/1519 kg Jim Mero 2008-06-27 *manufacturer claim. Strong headwind on main straight. electronically timed and confirmed with two hand-held stopwatches.
7:27.82 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 650 PS/1230 kg 2007-09 video Semi-wet conditions.
7:29.03 Nissan GT-R 480 hp/1740 kg Toshio Suzuki 2008-04-16 Best Motoring 07/08 video NISSAN Press release Standard run-flat tires. Dry Track.
7:32.02 Porsche 911 GT2 2008 530 PS/1440 kg Walter Röhrl 2007 *manufacturer claim.Motor Authority,
video
Semi-slicks tires.
7:32.44 Porsche Carrera GT 612 PS/1380 kg Horst Von Saurma Sport Auto
7:34 Koenigsegg CCR 817 PS/1180 kg Horst von Saurma 2005-10-17 Sport Auto Cold conditions
7:35 RUF RT12 659 hp/1573 kg Sport Auto
7:40 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 626 PS /1768 kg Klaus Ludwig AutoBild
7:42 Ford GT 550 PS/1521 kg Octane Magazine
7:42 Porsche 911 GT3 415 PS/1440 kg Walter Röhrl Automobil 05/06 sport auto 05/06
7:42.9 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 505 hp / 1450 kg Jan Magnussen 2005 Motor Trend[8] Muggy conditions
7:43 Porsche 996 GT3 RS 381 hp/1360 kg "Motor" magazine
7:44 Pagani Zonda S 550 PS/1280 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 02/05
7:46 Porsche 911 GT2 462 PS/1450 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 06/01
7:47 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 381 PS/1321 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 08/04
7:47 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 620 PS/1690 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto
7:47 Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 E-gear 640 PS/n/a Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 01/07 Sport tyres
7:49 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 512 ps / 1440 kg Horst von Saurma 2007-06-22 Sport Auto
7:50 BMW M3 CSL 360 PS/1421 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 08/03
7:50 BMW X5 E53 LM Hans-Joachim Stuck 2000 EVO magazine 08/2005 BMW M70 S70B56 engine from a V12 LMR producing 750 bhp
7:54 Mercedes CLK DTM AMG 582 PS/1678 kg Sport Auto 03/05
7:55 Caterham R500 Superlight 233 PS/460 kg Robert Nearn EVO magazine 07/2000
7:55 Ferrari F430 F1 490 PS/1493 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 01/06
7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 405 PS/1409.1 KG (3100 lb) Dave Hill [1]
7:56 Honda NSX-R (NA2) 280 PS/1270 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best MOTORing 08/02 Omit the safe equipment model No Airbags No ESC No Spare tire
7:56 Porsche 911 Turbo 420 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 06/00
7:56 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale f1 Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 02/04 Sport tyres
7:59* Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51 405 PS/1481 kg driver Dave Hill *manufacturer claim.
7:59 Cadillac CTS-V (2nd Generation) ~550 HP/ ~4200 John Heinricy 2008-05-09 manufacturer claim[2]
7:59 Porsche 911 Carrera S Walter Röhrl WHEELS 06/04 PASM setting “Performance”
7:59 Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 Dirk Schoysmans Autocar magazine 1997 Without speed limiter
7:59 Dodge Viper SRT-10 2005-11 Motor Trend
8:01 Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 280 PS/1540 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best Motoring - Video Special DVD Series Prototype (weight/horsepower different from production car)
8:02 Mercedes CLK 63 AMG - Black Series 507 PS/ 1790 kg Autobild 07/07
8:03 Aston Martin V8 Vantage (2005) 380 bhp/1570 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 10/05
8:03 Porsche 911 GT3 360 PS/1391 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 08/99
8:03 Honda NSX-R (NA1) 280 PS/1230 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best MOTORing 02/06 Omit the safe equipment model No Airbags No ESC No Spare tire
8:04 Audi R8 420 PS/1595 kg Sport Auto 07/07
8:05 BMW M3 E92 420 PS/1608 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/07
8:06 Subaru WRX STi Spec-C 280 PS/1370 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best Motoring Video "NISMO Beast Unleashed"
8:07 BMW Z8 E52 400 PS/1615 kg autobild.de 06/01
8:09 Audi RS4 420 PS sport auto 06/2006
8:09 BMW M6 E63 507 PS/n/a Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/05 Sport tyres, limited to 259 km/h
8:09 Honda NSX-R 320 PS/1467 kg Sport Auto 08/02 Sport tires, suspension modification
8:10 Chrysler Viper GTS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 10/97
8:13 BMW M5 E60 507 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/04
8:13 Ferrari 355 GTB Sport Auto 10/1994
8:22* Chevrolet Cobalt SS 2008 2.0 Turbo *manufacturer claim.
8:22 Nissan Skyline GT-R R32 280 PS/1430 kg Motoharu Kurosawa Best Motoring Video Special DVD
8:22 BMW M3 E46 343 PS/1584 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/00
8:22 BMW M Coupe E36/7 321 PS/1445 kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 10/98
8:24 Audi S5 354 PS/1718 kg * Sport Auto 01/08
8:24 Subaru Impreza Sport Auto 05/04 Sport tires
8:25 Lotus Exige S 243 PS/xxx kg Horst von Saurma Sport Auto
8:25 Jaguar XKR Horst von Saurma Sport Auto
8:25 Porsche Cayman S Horst von Saurma Sport Auto
8:24 Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VI Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 11/99 Sport tires
8:25 Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VII Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 11/02 Sport tires
8:26 BMW 335i E92 Coupe 306 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 306 hp
8:26 Nissan 350Z 290 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 10/03
8:28 Porsche 911 Carrera (993) 272 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 07/97
8:32 Porsche Boxster S 252 PS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 12/99
8:38 Honda NSX Sport Auto, 08/97
8:39 Honda S2000 Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 01/00
8:39 Mazdaspeed3(MPS) 260 PS/1403 kg Mark Ticehurst 2007 Mazda News 06/07[9] Driver inexperienced on track.
8:40 Chevrolet Corvette C5 automatic 344 PS/1505 kg Sport Auto 07/97 Crash involving civilian later in the lap
8:42 Lotus Exige Mk1 179PS/796KG Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 11/00 Sport tires
8:47 Honda Civic Type-R 200PS/1204KG Horst von Saurma Sport Auto 11/01
8:49 Volkswagen Golf R32 250PS/1591KG Sport Auto 09/06
8:51 Ford Focus ST 225PS/1330KG Sport Auto 09/05
8:53 Volkswagen Golf GTi DSG Mk5 200PS/1421KG Sport Auto 11/05
8:54 Vauxhall Corsa VXR 192PS/1262KG Sport Auto 04/08
9:05 Ford Focus RS 215PS/1355KG Sport Auto 09/05
9:12 Jaguar S-Type Diesel 208PS/1722kg Sabine Schmitz Top Gear episode of Top Gear, (Series 5, Episode 5 Bridge to Gantry)[3]
9:59 Jaguar S-Type Diesel 208PS/1722kg Jeremy Clarkson Top Gear episode of Top Gear, (Series 5, Episode 5 Bridge to Gantry)[3]
10:08 Ford Transit (van) Sabine Schmitz Top Gear episode of Top Gear, (Series 6, episode 7; Bridge to Gantry)
[edit] Official Lap Times in Competitions
General Note: International motorsport sanctioning bodies used the 20.832 km Nordschleife variant in 1983 only.
[edit] Qualifying Times
Length Time Make Model Class Driver Date Source Notes
20832 m 6:11.13 Porsche 956 Gr. C Stefan Bellof 28 May 1983 n/a 2nd qualifier (and winner) in same event (199.005 km/h)
22835 m 6:58.6 Ferrari 312B3 F1 Niki Lauda 2 August 1975 [4] [5] pole-position for 1975 German Grand Prix
22835 m 7:06.5 McLaren M23-Ford F1 James Hunt 31 July 1976 [6] pole-position for 1976 German Grand Prix
22835 m 7:08.59 Ford Capri Zakspeed Turbo Gr. 5 Klaus Niedzwiedz 4 July 1982 [7] Pole-pos Großer Preis der Tourenwagen
22835 m 7:30.52 Ford Capri Zakspeed Turbo Gr. 5 Klaus Ludwig 30 March 1980 [8] pole-position for 1980 DRM race
22835 m 7:31.7 Porsche 935 K3 Gr. 5 Klaus Ludwig 29 April 1979 [9] pole-position for 1979 Eifelrennen, DRM race
22835 m 7:44.4 Ford Capri Zakspeed Turbo Gr. 5 Hans Heyer 29 April 1979 [9] Fastest Category II car of 1979 Eifelrennen, DRM race
22835 m 7:45.44 BMW 320 Turbo Gr. 5 Hans-Joachim Stuck 30 March 1980 [8] Fastest Category II car of 1980 Eifelrennen, DRM race
22835 m 7:42.1 Brabham BT26A-Ford F1 Jacky Ickx 3 August 1969 [10] pole 1969 German GP, fastest on original bumpy track
22810 m 9:43.1 Mercedes-Benz W154 GP Hermann Lang 24 July 1938 n/a pole-position for 1939 German Grand Prix
22810 m 9:48.4 Mercedes-Benz W154 GP Manfred von Brauchitsch 23 July 1939 n/a pole-position for 1938 German Grand Prix
[edit] Official Lap times in Races
Length Time Make Model Class Driver Date Source Notes
20832 m 6:25.91 Porsche 956 Gr. C Stefan Bellof 29 May 1983 [11] 1983 1000 km Nürburgring
20832 m 6:28.03 March-BMW 832 F2 Christian Danner 24 April 1983 [12] 1983 Eifelrennen (193.272 km/h)
20832 m 7:04 Porsche 996 Turbo Gr. A/GT Uwe Alzen/Arno Klasen 29 May 2003 [13] Castrol-Haugg-Cup 2003 Foto Klasen/Alzen (bettered by 15-25 s during videotaped VLN races on 24.4 km track)
24433 m 8:09.949 Porsche 996 Turbo Gr. A/GT Uwe Alzen/Jürgen Alzen 24 September 2005 [14] VLN 2005 videotaped. Turbo engined discontinued due to rule changes. (179.526 km/h)
25378 m 8:43.367 Porsche 996 GT3-MR Gr. A/GT Lucas Luhr/Timo Bernhard/Mike Rockenfeller/ Marcel Tiemann 18 June 2006 [15] 24 Hours Nürburgring 2006, team set a new overall distance record with 151 laps
25947 m 9:02.206 Dodge Viper GTS-R GT2/24h Peter Zakowski/Pedro Lamy/Robert Lechner 1 June 2003 [16] Fastest lap on longest possible track layout in 24 Hours Nürburgring. Team DQ'd for fuel tank size
22835 m 7:06.4 Ferrari 312B3 F1 Clay Regazzoni 3 August 1975 [17] [18] 1975 German Grand Prix
22835 m 7:06.51 Maurer MM82-BMW F2 Stefan Bellof 25 April 1982 [19] F2 lap record in 1982 Eifelrennen
22835 m 7:10.8 Tyrrell P34-Ford F1 Jody Scheckter 1 August 1976 [20] 1976 German Grand Prix
22835 m 7:37.3 Porsche 935 K3 Gr. 5 Klaus Ludwig 29 April 1979 [9] 1979 Eifelrennen, DRM race (179,760 km/h)
22835 m 7:46.3 Zakspeed Capri Turbo Gr. 5 Hans Heyer 29 April 1979 [9] 1979 Eifelrennen, DRM race (176,290 km/h)
22835 m 7:56.21 Zakspeed Capri Turbo Gr. 5 Harald Ertl 30 March 1980 [8] 1980 DRM race (172,630 km/h)
22835 m 7:43.8 Brabham BT26A-Ford F1 Jacky Ickx 3 August 1969 [21] 1969 German GP, lap record of original bumpy track
22810 m 10:09.1 Mercedes-Benz W154 GP Richard Seaman 24 July 1938 n/a 1938 German Grand Prix
22810 m 10:24.2 Mercedes-Benz W154 GP Rudolf Caracciola 23 July 1939 n/a 1939 German Grand Prix
[edit] Motorcycles, Official Lap Records
Length Time Make Model Rider Date Source Notes
20832 m 7:49.71 Honda RC30 Helmut Dähne 23 May 1993 [22] [23] [24] As motorcycle contests were discontinued after 1994, this remains the fastest officially timed motorcycle lap ever on the 20832 m variant (159.7 km/h). Done in a single lap time trial run during Zuverlässigkeitsfahrt series on road legal VFR750R RC30 and Metzeler ME Z1 tyres.
22835 m 8:22.2 Suzuki 500 Marco Lucchinelli 24 Aug 1980 [25] [26] [27] 1980 German motorcycle Grand Prix (163.6 km/h), fastest motorcycle lap even on 22835 m variant, last Moto-GP held there
[edit] Motorcycles, unofficial times, public sessions
In public sessions, it is not possible to do full laps as it is required to pass the ticket gates. Enthusiasts time themselves from the first Bridge to the last Gantry. These are about 1720 m apart on the main straight, and depending on top speed of the vehicle, this Gantry-to-Bridge section could be covered in under 30 seconds. See also Bridge To Gantry website
Time Make Model Rider Date Source Notes
7:21.8 MV Agusta F4 312R Andy "AndyPath" Carlile 15 Oct 2008 Performance Bikes Magazine January 2008
7:28.8 Yamaha YZF-R1 "The Baron" n/a Performance Bikes Magazine October 2007 n/a
7:32.1 Yamaha YZF-R1 Brendan Keirle n/a Sliders Guest House video lap Aug 2006 Video Here n/a
7:32.6 Aprilia RSV1000R Factory "The Baron" n/a reported in PB Magazine August 2007 n/a
7:35.7 Suzuki GSX-R1000K7 Dale Lomas (Ex-Roadtest Editor of Performance Bikes Magazine) n/a On-board video at BridgeToGantry.com n/a
7:50 Suzuki GSX-R1000 vs Aprilia RSV 1000 Fausto "Faustone" Severi & Helmut Dähne 2002 SuperWheels during a SuperWheels's Pattuglia Acrobatica test
Length Time Make Model Rider Date Source Notes
20832 m 8:12.62 Honda CBR 1000 RR Helmut Dähne Sep 2007 autobild early morning full lap comparison with Walter Röhrl in a Porsche 997 GT2 (7:32)
[edit] Unofficial F1 Lap Record
On 28 April 2007, Nick Heidfeld drove a BMW Sauber F1.06 Formula One car around the Nordschleife, on a BMW publicity day in combination with a VLN 4h endurance race[10]. For safety reasons, BMW announced that the car was slowed with hard demonstration tyres, maximum ride height, and 275 km/h top speed limited by the transmission. Heidfeld drove three laps on the combined Nordschleife and short GP-track, as used in VLN races, with a track length of 24.433 km (so comparison with older records is difficult). The official lap time released by BMW Sauber was declared to be 8:34 (thus ca. 30 secs slower than the fastest Porsche 996 turbo in VLN). The German press duly reported this lap time, yet criticized BMW. In each lap, Heidfeld slowed down once to pose for a slow video truck, at Schwedenkreuz on the first lap 1, Kesselchen in lap 2, and Döttinger Höhe in the last lap. The two time spans in between the three passes of Heidfeld were clocked by some fans around the track, first Wehrseifen to Wehrseifen in about 7:28, then 7:22 from Klostertal to Klostertal, which is over 50 secs quicker than the fastest current Porsche 997 GT3 RSR in VLN. This translates to an average of about 200 km/h, similar to Bellof's record, but considering the slow GP section, Heidfeld probably was faster on the Nordschleife, close to 6 minutes. Fans who respect the official record of the late Stefan Bellof settle for an "estimated 6:12".
Road & Track magazine reported Heidfeld's lap was a 5:57 or 5:58 (for the Nordschleife only), breaking the track's six-minute barrier for the first time in history.[28] However, their times were done by measuring the speed in some corners, and then calculating a laptime, and not timing a full lap. A BMW video montage [11] with onboard, track side and helicopter camera views gives a better estimate of 6 minutes 40 seconds to the last corner.
Heidfeld has since expressed his desire to repeat the experience with less restriction.
According to F1 Racing magazine of June 2006, BMW engineers had estimated that a BMW-Sauber F1.06 could lap in under 5:15.8[29] which equals to an average of 237 km/h.
[edit] Notes and references
^ Ask Dave Hill, December Edition. crossedflags.com. Retrieved on 2008-01-04.
^ Cadillac Drivers' Log - 2009 CTS- V Blisters Nurburgring
^ a b Jaguar S-type diesel at the ring. bbc.co.uk/topgear. Retrieved on 2007-12-30.
^ Lauda had set 7:00.6 the day before, and with 6:58.6 broke the magic barrier of 7 minutes. Carlos Pace was 1,4 sec slower with his Brabham, qualifying second. (translated from German) p.102, Jörg-Thomas Födisch, Robert Ostrovsky: Grüne Hölle Nürburgring, 1995, ISBN 3-922300-53-7
^ Lang, Mike (1983). Grand Prix! Vol 3. Haynes Publishing Group, p91. ISBN 0-85429-380-9.
^ Lang, Mike (1983). Grand Prix! Vol 3. Haynes Publishing Group, p135. ISBN 0-85429-380-9.
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ a b c World Sports Racing Prototypes - DRM 1980
^ a b c d World Sports Racing Prototypes - DRM 1979
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ Statistik: CHC Rundenrekorde Nordschleife 1990 - 2007 [1]
^ Sieg und neuer Rundenrekord für Alzen Motorsport [2]
^ 34. ADAC Zurich 24h-Rennen Nürburgring [3]
^ Corrected Results [4]
^ Regazzoni, starting from third row (with 7:01,6), in lap 7, while on position 2, set a new lap record with (192.79 km/h) 7:06.4. This record will stand forever. (translated from German) p.102, Jörg-Thomas Födisch, Robert Ostrovsky: Grüne Hölle Nürburgring, 1995, ISBN 3-922300-53-7
^ Lang, Mike (1983). Grand Prix! Vol 3. Haynes Publishing Group, p93. ISBN 0-85429-380-9.
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ Lang, Mike (1983). Grand Prix! Vol 3. Haynes Publishing Group, p138. ISBN 0-85429-380-9.
^ 20832.com - Nürburgring & Nordschleife Fanprojekt [rekorde]
^ Foreword by Helmut Dähne, to Ulrich Thomson: Das Nürburgring Fahrer-Handbuch, 1997, ISBN 3-89365-533-6
^ 7:49,71 - Der Ring. Der Dauerbrenner von Futura. Erleben Sie Helmut Dähne mit der Honda RC 30 auf seiner Rekordrunde auf der Nürburgring-Nordschleife. 7.49.71 die Rekordzeit, die bis zum heutigen Tage von keinem Motorradfahrer gebrochen wurde. Onboard-Video by Futura Video, reenacting the record setting ride [5]
^ Dähne in his red-white leathers, doing a wheelie [6]
^ p.108, Jörg-Thomas Födisch, Robert Ostrovsky: Grüne Hölle Nürburgring, 1995, ISBN 3-922300-53-7
^ Nürburgring - Rekorde
^ Nürburgring - Rekorde
^ Road & Track, Hidden Glory at the Green Hell, May 2007
^ The layout includes 73 corners, and a simulation by BMW has today's BMW-Sauber F1.06 cutting the timing beam in 5m15.80s. - "Jacques at the Nürburgring", F1 Racing magazine, June 2006, p.83 [7]
[edit] External links
Road legal sports car lap times and comparison
Database with lap times of racing events and magazine tests
Castrol-Haugg-Cup lap records of various classes recorded on Nordschleife 1990 - 2006
One of the oldest/largest lists of Nordschleife lap times, with track length and average lap speed
Laptimes achieved in public sessions
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_lap_times"
Categories: Motorsport in Germany
07-01-2008 | 05:07 PM
#58
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: sydney
I wish Ferrari weren't above crushing Nissan and GM.... Both Nissan and GM have sent their fastest most powerful production cars ever to the ring backed by pro drivers.
If Ferrari did the same it would look something like this car and this guy driving:
And then no one would care about ZR1 and GTR times anymore...
If Ferrari did the same it would look something like this car and this guy driving:
And then no one would care about ZR1 and GTR times anymore...
07-01-2008 | 06:33 PM
#60
It's a Cavalier
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 5
From: Austin, TX
I wish Ferrari weren't above crushing Nissan and GM.... Both Nissan and GM have sent their fastest most powerful production cars ever to the ring backed by pro drivers.
If Ferrari did the same it would look something like this car and this guy driving:
And then no one would care about ZR1 and GTR times anymore...
If Ferrari did the same it would look something like this car and this guy driving:
And then no one would care about ZR1 and GTR times anymore...
Here's more about the ZR1 that I'm sure you don't know... from Road & Track
An interesting tidbit: The front rotors are the same as those on a Ferrari FXX and the rears are off the front of an Enzo! The rotors are nearly identical to those on a Bugatti Veyron and optional on a Ferrari 599.
07-02-2008 | 12:22 AM
#61
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
I knew someone would start throwing out excuses why the FXX couldn't be compared. Not like Schumacher in the Maserati MC12 wouldn't beat the ZR1, or even Schumacher in the F430 Scuderia could probably crank a better time than the ZR1. But since the ZR1 is GM's best, I thought Ferrari would be able to use their best too... And though it seems like you were just being sarcastic, I did know about the brakes on the ZR1.
07-02-2008 | 05:37 PM
#63
It's a Cavalier
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 5
From: Austin, TX
Incorrect.
The Corvette is not and never has been a "muscle car". It is and always has been a purpose built "sports car". I understand your mistake, because several muscle cars have borrowed engines and components from the Corvette, but the Corvette itself is not a muscle car.
The Corvette is not and never has been a "muscle car". It is and always has been a purpose built "sports car". I understand your mistake, because several muscle cars have borrowed engines and components from the Corvette, but the Corvette itself is not a muscle car.
07-03-2008 | 01:06 AM
#66
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1
From: University of Maryland
The vette when compared to the best the world has to offer is no where near the top when it comes to overall handling. If the Vette is an elite handling car, even the Z06 would have easily beaten the GT-R with its huge advantage in power to weight ratio. Just because its not at that elite level does not mean its not a sports car, it still handles better than 90% of the cars you see on the road including many sports cars.
Last edited by playdoh43; 07-03-2008 at 01:10 AM.
07-03-2008 | 07:12 AM
#67
The Prototype
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 0
The vette when compared to the best the world has to offer is no where near the top when it comes to overall handling. If the Vette is an elite handling car, even the Z06 would have easily beaten the GT-R with its huge advantage in power to weight ratio. Just because its not at that elite level does not mean its not a sports car, it still handles better than 90% of the cars you see on the road including many sports cars.
Did you not look at the "Ring" list i posted ? The Z-06 beat a Ferrari, several Porsches,a Aston Martin, NSX R , Viper, Catterham, BMW M3/M5 ,Skylines,Mercedes CLK Black Series which is a street usable racecar,Audi R8, and not to mention a full blown out racer car called the Mercedes CLK DTM AMG , yes the one that races in the German Touring car championship! Pretty top of the food chain to me , plus a full blown race car added to that list that a street usable Z-06 dominated. I say the handeling is equal to if not above and beyond to keep the elite at bay.
The Z-06 is a helluva car , have you ever driven one? I have , look for my review on my buddies Z-06 that i drove , the review is on this board. The Z-06 is a serious contender without all the computer aided crap that the GT-R has on it. The reason why the GT_R car gets such a good time on the ring is because of that computer aided guideance. Look at the list and tell me is there any Skyline GT-R that even remotely comes close to the C6 Z-06 time? There isn't because those Skylines GT-R's didn't have all that computer aided assistance to help them out. A good or pro driver drove them the best they could and got the time they got.
The Z-06 is a elite performer, now , then and for the future. The Z-06/ ZR-1 can hold its own against 95% of cars on this planet. Numbers don't lie....
Last edited by DailyDriver2k5; 07-03-2008 at 08:40 AM.
07-03-2008 | 08:02 AM
#68
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 167
Likes: 1
From: Oviedo, FL
Tell that to the boys who drive the Compuware twin Z-06 in the ALMS. I am sure they would laugh in your face for that statement you made!
Did you not look at the "Ring" list i posted ? The Z-06 beat a Ferrari, several Porsches,a Aston Martin, NSX R , Viper, Catterham, BMW M3/M5 ,Skylines,Mercedes CLK Black Series which a street usable racecar,Audi R8, and not to mention a full blown out racer car called the Mercedes CLK DTM AMG , yes the one that races in the German Touring car championship! Pretty top of the food chain to me , plus a full blown race car added to that list that a street usable Z-06 dominated. I say the handeling is equal to if not above and beyond to keep the elite at bay.
The Z-06 is a helluva car , have you ever driven one? I have , look for my review on my buddies Z-06 that i drove , the review is on this board. The Z-06 is a serious contender without all the computer aided crap that the GT-R has on it. The reason why the GT_R car gets such a good time on the ring is because of that computer aided guideance. Look at the list and tell me is there any Skyline GT-R that even remotely comes close to the C6 Z-06 time? There isn't because those Skylines GT-R's didn't have all that computer aided assistance to help them out. A good or pro driver drove them the best they could and got the time they got.
The Z-06 is a elite performer, now , then and for the future. The Z-06/ ZR-1 can hold its own against 95% of cars on this planet. Numbers don't lie....
Did you not look at the "Ring" list i posted ? The Z-06 beat a Ferrari, several Porsches,a Aston Martin, NSX R , Viper, Catterham, BMW M3/M5 ,Skylines,Mercedes CLK Black Series which a street usable racecar,Audi R8, and not to mention a full blown out racer car called the Mercedes CLK DTM AMG , yes the one that races in the German Touring car championship! Pretty top of the food chain to me , plus a full blown race car added to that list that a street usable Z-06 dominated. I say the handeling is equal to if not above and beyond to keep the elite at bay.
The Z-06 is a helluva car , have you ever driven one? I have , look for my review on my buddies Z-06 that i drove , the review is on this board. The Z-06 is a serious contender without all the computer aided crap that the GT-R has on it. The reason why the GT_R car gets such a good time on the ring is because of that computer aided guideance. Look at the list and tell me is there any Skyline GT-R that even remotely comes close to the C6 Z-06 time? There isn't because those Skylines GT-R's didn't have all that computer aided assistance to help them out. A good or pro driver drove them the best they could and got the time they got.
The Z-06 is a elite performer, now , then and for the future. The Z-06/ ZR-1 can hold its own against 95% of cars on this planet. Numbers don't lie....
While it's a noble effort to try to inform some of these types who've moved on to the "prestige" of owning an RX8, I'm afraid it's an exercise in futility.
Let alone the obvious, they are of limited capacity to grasp numbers.
In short, and stated kindly, you're wasting your time.
Last edited by digitalSniperX1; 07-03-2008 at 08:05 AM.
07-03-2008 | 08:15 AM
#69
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 167
Likes: 1
From: Oviedo, FL
First, let's start with the obvious.
First, tell us how the differential equations that descibe the behavior of a mass spring system vary between leaf springs and coil springs.
After you're done scratching your head on that one, tell us when did the horse and buggy equipped with leaf springs begin using advanced composite materials in them?
Now, ask yourself another question, why would GM engineers use leaf springs made of such materials when a steel coil spring is far less costly?
Now, that your head is on top your shoulders, why in the hell do you all think coil spings are of some great advantage? Friggen vegas had coil springs, and pintos too (not on the rears).
We'll move on from that if you can come up with just one good answer to the above.
As not always being one who follows his own advice, I'm guessing this too is a waste of time.
You know, the horse and buggy used wheels. The RX8 uses wheels. Using your logic, the RX8 and the horse drawn buggy have a lot in common.
First, tell us how the differential equations that descibe the behavior of a mass spring system vary between leaf springs and coil springs.
After you're done scratching your head on that one, tell us when did the horse and buggy equipped with leaf springs begin using advanced composite materials in them?
Now, ask yourself another question, why would GM engineers use leaf springs made of such materials when a steel coil spring is far less costly?
Now, that your head is on top your shoulders, why in the hell do you all think coil spings are of some great advantage? Friggen vegas had coil springs, and pintos too (not on the rears).
We'll move on from that if you can come up with just one good answer to the above.
As not always being one who follows his own advice, I'm guessing this too is a waste of time.
You know, the horse and buggy used wheels. The RX8 uses wheels. Using your logic, the RX8 and the horse drawn buggy have a lot in common.
Last edited by digitalSniperX1; 07-03-2008 at 08:20 AM.
07-03-2008 | 08:49 AM
#70
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1
From: University of Maryland
Tell that to the boys who drive the Compuware twin Z-06 in the ALMS. I am sure they would laugh in your face for that statement you made!
Did you not look at the "Ring" list i posted ? The Z-06 beat a Ferrari, several Porsches,a Aston Martin, NSX R , Viper, Catterham, BMW M3/M5 ,Skylines,Mercedes CLK Black Series which is a street usable racecar,Audi R8, and not to mention a full blown out racer car called the Mercedes CLK DTM AMG , yes the one that races in the German Touring car championship! Pretty top of the food chain to me , plus a full blown race car added to that list that a street usable Z-06 dominated. I say the handeling is equal to if not above and beyond to keep the elite at bay.
The Z-06 is a helluva car , have you ever driven one? I have , look for my review on my buddies Z-06 that i drove , the review is on this board. The Z-06 is a serious contender without all the computer aided crap that the GT-R has on it. The reason why the GT_R car gets such a good time on the ring is because of that computer aided guideance. Look at the list and tell me is there any Skyline GT-R that even remotely comes close to the C6 Z-06 time? There isn't because those Skylines GT-R's didn't have all that computer aided assistance to help them out. A good or pro driver drove them the best they could and got the time they got.
The Z-06 is a elite performer, now , then and for the future. The Z-06/ ZR-1 can hold its own against 95% of cars on this planet. Numbers don't lie....
Did you not look at the "Ring" list i posted ? The Z-06 beat a Ferrari, several Porsches,a Aston Martin, NSX R , Viper, Catterham, BMW M3/M5 ,Skylines,Mercedes CLK Black Series which is a street usable racecar,Audi R8, and not to mention a full blown out racer car called the Mercedes CLK DTM AMG , yes the one that races in the German Touring car championship! Pretty top of the food chain to me , plus a full blown race car added to that list that a street usable Z-06 dominated. I say the handeling is equal to if not above and beyond to keep the elite at bay.
The Z-06 is a helluva car , have you ever driven one? I have , look for my review on my buddies Z-06 that i drove , the review is on this board. The Z-06 is a serious contender without all the computer aided crap that the GT-R has on it. The reason why the GT_R car gets such a good time on the ring is because of that computer aided guideance. Look at the list and tell me is there any Skyline GT-R that even remotely comes close to the C6 Z-06 time? There isn't because those Skylines GT-R's didn't have all that computer aided assistance to help them out. A good or pro driver drove them the best they could and got the time they got.
The Z-06 is a elite performer, now , then and for the future. The Z-06/ ZR-1 can hold its own against 95% of cars on this planet. Numbers don't lie....
It beat the Z06 is all the comparos so far as well as on the track... that says something to me. A car with vastly superior hp to weight ratio should be a lot faster than it is, but its being beaten by heavier cars with less power including the 911 turbo. Comparing the new Z06 vs previous versions of other cars dosnt make much sense either. Bringing up racing versions of the vette dosnt exactly say much about the stock z06... I never said the Z06 is bad either, Its still an elite performer and Id love to own one if given the chance. You dont need to get mad just because there are people who thinks the z06 is not at the very top of the sports car world (but pretty close). remember, its just oppinion. Once again, the Z06 is a great car that will destroy 90% of the sports cars on the track
btw i dont think ferrari is that interested in the ring, they have their own killer test track. im sure all the crazy f1 technologies where they spend 400M a year developing can help them dominate the ring too if they are really up for it.
Last edited by playdoh43; 07-03-2008 at 09:00 AM.
07-03-2008 | 09:06 AM
#71
The Prototype
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 0
having computer aid "crap" on the GT-R dosnt take anything away from it, your so called "crap" brings results.
It beat the Z06 is all the comparos so far as well as on the track... that says something to me. A car with vastly superior hp to weight ratio should be a lot faster than it is, but its being beaten by heavier cars with less power including the 911 turbo. Comparing the new Z06 vs previous versions of other cars dosnt make much sense either. Bringing up racing versions of the vette dosnt exactly say much about the stock z06... I never said the Z06 is bad either, Its still an elite performer and Id love to own one if given the chance. You dont need to get all mad just because there are people who thinks the z06 is not at the top of the sports car world. Once again, the Z06 is a great car
btw i dont think ferrari is that interested in the ring, they have their own killer test track. im sure all the crazy f1 technologies where they spend 400M a year developing can help them dominate the ring too if they are really up for it.
It beat the Z06 is all the comparos so far as well as on the track... that says something to me. A car with vastly superior hp to weight ratio should be a lot faster than it is, but its being beaten by heavier cars with less power including the 911 turbo. Comparing the new Z06 vs previous versions of other cars dosnt make much sense either. Bringing up racing versions of the vette dosnt exactly say much about the stock z06... I never said the Z06 is bad either, Its still an elite performer and Id love to own one if given the chance. You dont need to get all mad just because there are people who thinks the z06 is not at the top of the sports car world. Once again, the Z06 is a great car
btw i dont think ferrari is that interested in the ring, they have their own killer test track. im sure all the crazy f1 technologies where they spend 400M a year developing can help them dominate the ring too if they are really up for it.
Ferrari must be interested in the ring as they ran there F430 F1 series car on it, the same F430 F1 that wears the Scudera badge on it. So much for investing on a better F430.
On a side not the GT-R did not best the Atom 500 or the Radical , those cars are way lighter than a Z-06 and a GT-R , not to mention both those cars have a higher Hp to weight figure on them too, yet the GT-R couldn't trump them. Without the computer aided training wheels the GT-R is not that special. Good sports car, yes, great sports car, no.
07-03-2008 | 09:17 AM
#72
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
First, let's start with the obvious.
First, tell us how the differential equations that descibe the behavior of a mass spring system vary between leaf springs and coil springs.
After you're done scratching your head on that one, tell us when did the horse and buggy equipped with leaf springs begin using advanced composite materials in them?
Now, ask yourself another question, why would GM engineers use leaf springs made of such materials when a steel coil spring is far less costly?
Now, that your head is on top your shoulders, why in the hell do you all think coil spings are of some great advantage? Friggen vegas had coil springs, and pintos too (not on the rears).
We'll move on from that if you can come up with just one good answer to the above.
As not always being one who follows his own advice, I'm guessing this too is a waste of time.
You know, the horse and buggy used wheels. The RX8 uses wheels. Using your logic, the RX8 and the horse drawn buggy have a lot in common.
First, tell us how the differential equations that descibe the behavior of a mass spring system vary between leaf springs and coil springs.
After you're done scratching your head on that one, tell us when did the horse and buggy equipped with leaf springs begin using advanced composite materials in them?
Now, ask yourself another question, why would GM engineers use leaf springs made of such materials when a steel coil spring is far less costly?
Now, that your head is on top your shoulders, why in the hell do you all think coil spings are of some great advantage? Friggen vegas had coil springs, and pintos too (not on the rears).
We'll move on from that if you can come up with just one good answer to the above.
As not always being one who follows his own advice, I'm guessing this too is a waste of time.
You know, the horse and buggy used wheels. The RX8 uses wheels. Using your logic, the RX8 and the horse drawn buggy have a lot in common.
07-03-2008 | 09:20 AM
#73
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 167
Likes: 1
From: Oviedo, FL
07-03-2008 | 09:37 AM
#74
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1
From: University of Maryland
I am not mad at all, I don't think the GT-R is at the top of the sports car food chain either. Only thing it can do good is handle, and accelerate .2 sec faster than a standard Z-06 to 60 after that its game over for it. A GT-R will not run the 1/4 mile faster ,(stock Z-06 broke in the high 10.97-99,GT-R still mid to high 11's. ) nor even comes close to the Z-06 top speed of 196 mph,183-186 for the GT-R depending on sources.
Ferrari must be interested in the ring as they ran there F430 F1 series car on it, the same F430 F1 that wears the Scudera badge on it. So much for investing on a better F430.
On a side not the GT-R did not best the Atom 500 or the Radical , those cars are way lighter than a Z-06 and a GT-R , not to mention both those cars have a higher Hp to weight figure on them too, yet the GT-R couldn't trump them. Without the computer aided training wheels the GT-R is not that special. Good sports car, yes, great sports car, no.
Ferrari must be interested in the ring as they ran there F430 F1 series car on it, the same F430 F1 that wears the Scudera badge on it. So much for investing on a better F430.
On a side not the GT-R did not best the Atom 500 or the Radical , those cars are way lighter than a Z-06 and a GT-R , not to mention both those cars have a higher Hp to weight figure on them too, yet the GT-R couldn't trump them. Without the computer aided training wheels the GT-R is not that special. Good sports car, yes, great sports car, no.
your very accurate description of the acceleration advantage the z06 has over the GT-R serve to demonstrate to me even more that the Z06 should be faster than the GT-R around tracks but its not... The GT-R certainly did not beat the Z06 by out accelerating it in the straights
The GT-R is not the best sports car out there. The Gallardo has beaten the GT-R on BMI already at Tsukuba. It is however better than the Z06 in my mind and it seems to be the case in all the reviews and comparos so far too. Thats not even a knock against the Z06 because there are are always better and faster cars out there.
Last edited by playdoh43; 07-03-2008 at 10:01 AM.
07-03-2008 | 09:44 AM
#75
Registered
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,027
Likes: 0
From: Austin, Texas
I wish Ferrari weren't above crushing Nissan and GM.... Both Nissan and GM have sent their fastest most powerful production cars ever to the ring backed by pro drivers.
If Ferrari did the same it would look something like this car and this guy driving:
And then no one would care about ZR1 and GTR times anymore...
If Ferrari did the same it would look something like this car and this guy driving:
And then no one would care about ZR1 and GTR times anymore...