Japan8

Ford V8's sound better. GM interiors have generally sucked. GM LOVES automatics (it was like the standard tranny on the last gen of F-body cars). THAT royally sucks!

therm8

Chevy's V8's sound way better .

When you make a badass automatic, why not show it off. Besides, ATs are standard on most cars. It is the US after all. And I seem to remember the cost being pretty much the same for the 4AT or 6MT.

Neither Ford nor GM have had great interiors, at least since the 60's.

Japan8

To each his own, but Ford V8's sound more throaty and sporty to me and GM V8's more like a truck engine... but that's only my opinion.

[quote
When you make a badass automatic, why not show it off. Besides, ATs are standard on most cars. It is the US after all. And I seem to remember the cost being pretty much the same for the 4AT or 6MT. [/quote]

Because automatics suck rocks and I'd never buy another no matter how badass the car is supposed to be. And this includes SMG/DSG transmissions too. No clutch = no deal.

Design-wise... pretty much. Materials and such... GM is even worse in my book. Unfinished headliner edges, I HATE the feel of their ***** and switches....

Mazdaspeed RX8 ver2

got to love the retro look. seems like retro is in this decade.

rx8wannahave

While I agree with you, I refuse to buy a automatic, you could get a 6spd in the last Camaro without a problem so I don't expect this to be a auto only car either. Heck, the GTO came with both also. It's Dodge/Damlier/etc that LOVES autos and FORCES them on it's customers.

snizzle

Definitely only your opinion. I'm with therm8, the LS* sounds better. I don't know where you get that it's not as throaty.

There is no way this car comes out without an MT option, that's just ridiculous. I'm sure they'll use the 6AT now in the Vette so either way you'll have 6 gears to play with.

bascho

I have to agree with Japan8.......Ford V8's have sounded better then GM's for at least 2 decades. I think it's because GM is probably the worst of the 3 domestics in terms of exhaust system design. My buddies GTO is nice sounding......but no where near as mean sounding as a Mustang. Of course the GTO doesn't have to prove anything in the sound dept.....just line them up and see who has the bigger ***** (except 03/04 Cobra which is an even race).

snizzle

Mr. Ford thinks the Mustang sounds better, i'm shocked.... hehehe, j/k w/you man.

That would be the first thing i'd do with the Camaro (or any LS based car), aftermarket exhaust.

bascho

I definitely think it's just a stock GM exhaust thing.....I have definitely heard some nice sounding aftermarket set-ups for GM vehicles.

Japan8

snizzle and therm8... bascho said it for me... I was really referring to a 100% stock system.

I'll agree with that. It still sounds different, but a GM V8 with a good exhaust system on it sounds pretty mean too.

Japan8

Auto OPTION is fine. BUt GM makes it standard and the MT the option. To make it worse, the dealers are mostly stocked with the auto model only. Sure you can find MT cars, but most you run across are slush boxes.

rx8wannahave

^probably true, thankfully the 6spd 8's were a plenty...lol.

saturn

Is there even a single Camaro in all of Japan?

Japan8

Yep there sure are. You see one or two a month. Same for Mustangs. I've even seen a 2005/6 Mustang GT. The problem is really that the cars are DAAAAAMN expensive in Japan. We're talking $45-50k for a Mustang GT. And they only come in left hand drive... no right hand drive. Sure some toll booths and stuff can accomodate this since some Japanese LIKE to have the imported look, but for any real sales... NG. Plus the V8 gas mileage... plus taxes for a car like that... plus the limited avaialblility of replacement parts... plus limited aftermarket in Japan... you get the picture.

Oh... I did see some chick driving a yellow C5 last week... talk about my jaw dropping...

therm8

Camaro gets the go!

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/06/g...aro-this-week/

Merc63

I love the new Camaro, and it looks like it'll arrive on the scene about the same length of time behind the new Mustang as the original Camaro came behind the ORIGINAL Mustang.. hehehehe. And I agree, Ford spent more time working on the exhaust sound that GM ever has.

I don't mind their interiors. I've spent so much time in vintage cars and race cars that ANY new car has a nice interior in comparison. But especially, when I'm looking at a performance car, all the interior has to do is stay together, hold me in comfortably, and hold the gauges. Material choice is, quite literally, immaterial.

As for automatics on musclecars, that's been traditional since the '60s. If you ever had the chance to drive back to back a, say '70 Chevelle with a Turbo 400 automatic and one with a Muncie 4 speed, you'd see why the automatic was the better choice. Same with a 428 mustang with a C6 or a Toploader 4 speed. Or a 440 Charger with a manual or a Torquflite 727 automatic (which was standard on the Charger R/T in '70-72)

When I was younger, I loved the precision of the newer Japanese sport transmissions vs the European and American sport cars and musclecars I'd been used to. Although, when I started racing my RX3, I found it to be VERY easy to "beat" the synchros in the 5 speed when accelerating hard, thus missing a shift.

But, all the small engines in the British and Japanese sports cars and sport coupes needed a lot of gears to keep them in their powerbands, and they needed a manual to not sap the low amounts of horspower the engines made (the RX3 was, like 110 hp at the flywheel stock, and my ported one was up to 150 hp. By contrast, my 429 Torino GT had almot 500 hp). Domestic V8s with a wide, but low powerbnand, were perfectly matched to the 3 sped automatics, which could handle more power, and were more consistent. And with a $50 shift kit, were quicker than any manual and never missed a shift. As a performance addition, it's much like adding a rev limiter, and an aftermarket engine management computer to a modern GT.

Besides, decades ago I got over the teenage new driver feeling of "look at me, I shifted. Oh, look! I did it again!" mentality of most of the manual trans proponents on these forums. I still like and prefer a good manual trans, especially in a small engine sports car (and I'm spending extra money and cost to put a Supra 5 speed behind the Lexus LS400 V8 I'm putting in my '63 Mercury Comet), but the honest truth is, after you get good at shifting, 99% of the time you don't even pay attention to the fact you're doing it. You just shift naturally, and it really adds nothing to the drive. How does something you're not even paying attention to add anything of substance to your driving experience? I've found that accelleration and cornering forces, as well as the sound of the engine adds more to the drive than what transmission is in the car. And even in new musclecars, the automatics are, like the old days, perfectly matched to the cars and engines.

BlueSky

Looks very nice, way better than the C6 Vette or the Z06. I doubt production model would look anything close to that good. Csaba said they'd have to raise it to Mustang height. Looks wayyyyyyyy better than the Mustang. BUT it'll probably be heavy as hell. It'll probably have a chintzy cheap interior. And it'll probably handle like a mustang.

therm8

If it handles like a Mustang, that's not too shabby. The new Mustang handles quite well.

BlueSky

Doesn't handle like our 8's though. That live-rear axle is archaic.

Merc63

No more archaic than coil springs.

the live axle is lighter and had a much better camber curve. It has a higher unspring weight, but a lower overall weight. And the positive placement of the wheels as far as camber changes go is a benefit, as well as not having independant camber curves that can send the car off to each side as it hits a bump (Hit a bump on one side only, the camber changes and shoves the car toward the opposite side. Everything is a tradeoff). As road racers have proven for decades, live axles can work quite well (first gen RX7s come to mind...) Yes, there are some situations where you will notice it, but you shouldn't be going that fast on the street in those situations ANYHOW, in any car.

The Mustang doesn't handle like your RX8s mostly due to mass. My live axle Fiat 124 spider is as balanced and as agile as your 8...

The primary benefit to an IRS is ride over bizzare bumps.

Japan8

True it does become an unconscious action, but you notice the lack of it when going from at MT to AT. Always looking for the clutch and reaching for the shifter.

AT with torque converters and planetary gears not only sap power, but also give you worst gas mileage. In many models today you also end up with less power than the MT because of torque converter limitations.

Unfortunately for me the transmission DOES make a big difference. I want to choose what gear I am in at any and all times... and I don't like sequential shifting.

Merc63

Hmm. Planetary gears don't sap power, but poorly designed torque converters definitely do. Most modern cars, however, use lock up torque converters with a direct drive between engine and trans when locked up. Sure, they slip when accellerating from a stop, but you also slip the clutch when accelelerating froma stop, and unless you're racing, you rarely use full throttle (and thus full power) anyhow.

And as I pointed out, in tradtional musclecars, the auto could be made considerably quicker than the manual. Partly due to the fact that increasing line pressure sped up the shifts, removed slippage, and the engine was allowed to make power DURING the shift. On turbo cars, andother avantage is that the turbo is able to remain spooled during a shift. For large domestic V8s, that isn't a factor, though.

And they handled more power. Don't know why modern japanese automatic transmissions can't handle as much power as a manual with the lessons of the domestic transmissions to go on (which is where they got most of their automatic technology to start with). Seems odd that a TF727 could handle the torque and hp of a built Mopar 440 cid big block, but more modern metallurgy and manufacturing processes can't get an automatic that handles half that power in a modern sedan...

As for picking your shift points, most of the time, you're really not. You're shifting about the same place an auto would, and you're not even paying attention. The few times you do, it's because you haveto shift then, as that's where the engine is telling you to shift. A good auto will do the same, instantly. Most don't, it's true. But in my race cars, it's been no problem to tell the trans to shift when I wanted it to. That's why there are more detents than just "D"

Like I said, I prefer a good manual trans, especially behind a high revving small engine that needs a lot of ratios. And a good heel-toe downshift in preparation for a sharp turn can be satisfying, the few times I do it on the street. But a good auto has it's own benefits, as well, and modding one and using it behind a high power V8 can be just as satisfying. As I proved to a lot of people in my old race car:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adesso/rex1.wmv

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adesso/rex3.wmv

Japan8

Let's sum it up this way... I know. Like why the Buick GNX only came in AT and why many Mopar cars were too. I doesn't mean I like it any better though. I don't like SMG/DSG either. I just enjoy using the clutch and shifting the double-H... and I wish that manufacturers wouldn't take that option away from those of us who prefer it.