911SC

Some of what GM has done lately
1/ Brought over Opels and called them Saturns.
2/ Stuck a Honda V6 in the Vue.
3/ Turned Holdens into Pontiacs.
4/ Sold a Toyota as a Pontiac.
5/ Stuck a Saab nose on a GM suv.
6/ Stuck a Saab nose on a Subaru.
Yeah, they're on the right track.

digitalSniperX1

Some of the things VW have done recently.

(1) Stuck a VW nose on an Audi
(2) Stuck a VW engine in an Audi
(3) Built a sludge generator 1.8 T some of which beat RX8's to the failed engine finish line.
(4) Generally build cars that are less reliable than even the worst cars from GM.
(5) Build a low power and inefficient 2.5L, stuck it in Golfs and called them Rabbits.
(6) Called a VW SUV a Porsche Cayenne whose reliability record would make a BMW 7 series proud.
and last but not least.....

(7) Began building their cars in Mexico for export to the US to take advantage of NAFTA.


But hey, they do use high quality plastics in their interiors. That's high tech dude.

VW is working their problems. GM is doing the same.

Earl the Pearl

Digital Sniper- Just my opinion but I have a tough time blaming the unions for the problems of these companies. When your incentives are far higher than your competition, and have been for a long time it's not the unions killing them. It is the lack of class leading products for years.

At one point, these companies had all the market share, and talent from top universities, and look at what was designed and sent out.

The Solstice did create a lot of hype and I think it is a nice looking car. I looked at one before buying the RX8 but the design is extremely poor. No storage with the top down, the top of the steering wheel covers the tiny gas gauge(and yes I tried tilting the wheel many ways), the standard engine is noisy and unimpressive, and there is minimal storage inside the car. That is **** poor from the world's largest automaker. How can anyone be expected to buy this over an MX5?


GM finally has some cars it can sell at retail that people are excited about and what do they do? Discount them. CNNFN had an article stating the new employee pricing is good even on the 09 CTS which takes about $3 or$4k off. It is also good on the Malibu which is selling strong. Where was that committment from management to get away from incentives which erode resale and image? Yes, end of year sales are typical to clear out inventory but not on hot selling cars and not on '09s. GM management is clueless. The Chrysler fire sale is just embarrassing. They are discounting Rams 40%, minivans 23%, etc. Nardelli must think he is still at Home Depot advertising 40% off paint. Mulally seems to be the only one with a plan and the skill set to get it done.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I also don't blame the unions. The automakers agreed to these contracts. The companies should have fought harder for an agreement that wouldn't have crippled their business. Health care is the biggest problem they have.

digitalSniperX1

I think it was about blaming the current mgmt. not the unions. But more the financial obligations created in previous union contracts. Again, at the time it felt like the right thing to do since all their competetors were dealing with the same labor issues.

However, the culture at GM of today still involves the union mindset. The financial obligations still involve the union, it's members past and present. I know this quite simply because I have several family members who are/were union members at both Ford and GM.

The issue are the financial obligations that have been created for the current mgmt by the previous mgmt. All top GM brass knows they must build competitive products. They also know they must build a product that generated profit.


In a simplified scenario, a $20k car should return at least return 7% to the corporation and shareholders. That's a whole $1400. Now, if they have a $1500 dollar competitive deficit, they either cheapen the car, which makes it NOT competitive, or they reduce their profits to a negative value.

Honestly, the numbers are pretty clear.

If I were heading GM, knowing that there are many problems that need addressing, I'd pay off the union members that are under contract (they are doing that) and I'd never sign another union contract again.

And if they strike, they'd be fired and replaced.



On the subject of cost incentives, they're simply trying to acquire market share in areas where they've done poorly in the past. This is not a bad strategy. Get their better cars out into the public so that others can find out they're actually pretty good (most of them). We all know SUV sales are way down across the board, so they're not going to gain market share there.


On the Solstice, I know it's not perfect. But I've read that the Solstice GT is more fun to drive than a Boxter (Car and Driver) so while you may personally find it lacking, others do not. Given the fact that Mazda has had more than 10 years to polish the Miata, GM did at least a decent job with it. IMO, the Honda S2000 isn't as as polished as the Miata even with a more powerful engine. Others agree, and generally Honda is held in high regard.

There are better examples of GM's good products than the Solstice however. No one intellectually honest or with the capacity to compare cars could argue that the Corvette is probably the most value packed performance car on the planet, and it is reliable. The new Malibu is doing well. And the CTS is a pretty good value when compared to a BMW 3 Series on the high end, and loaded Camry/Accord on the lower end. I've read nothing but positive press on this car.

911SC

Where did that come from?
I thought we were talking about Ford-GM-Chrysler. I better go back and re-read the posts, I may have missed something.