shigginsrx8

I posted the same thing in the lounge, didnt really get any love, so here it is again............

was doing some research for my thesis and came across a nice little CFD model animation from the BAR honda website.

It is along the same lines as what I am doing for my PhD, only, there movie looks a lot prettier.

Anyways, I hope you enjoy, it fascinates me.

BAR CFD

dammit, you will have to do some navigating, do this

under navigate, click team, then aerodynamics. On the left hand side there is a video option. enjoy

Hanzo

The reason why you didn't get any "love" from your old post is because you didn't ask any questions or opinions. You just say look, it's cool.

Yes very cool, aeros are big in F1 since it weighs only 1300lbs with driver and fuel it needs some down force to keep them on the road going 200+ miles per hour. Aerodynamicsist are big paying jobs in F1 teams, it's tremendously hard to get into one of those teams even with Minardy.

BTW F1 cars can generate 4000lbs of down force and the car weighs 1300lbs so theoretically it could drive upside down and not falling off.

shigginsrx8

haha, and i thought it was because the title of the topics doesnt make any sense to someone who doesnt know what CFD is.

your probably right. Altough, if i see something cool, i say hey thats cool. I just noticed that there seems to be a lot of scientific type on this board, and they might enjoy it

wakeech

...well, that's not really quite it. the low mass of the cars isn't why they need downforce, but just that thye want downforce to increase their weight on the track surface (more N force) without increasing their mass, which is bad as it would translate into much higher momentum going around the corners translating to lower speeds at a certain level of grip. so, you enhance your grip (more weight) and keeping your momentum very low (less mass).

and you can definitely get into F1 as an aerodynamicist if you're already a graduate student or a Phd in an appropriate field, but of course you wouldn't start at the top. the boys who run the show now didn't just start there, it's like a decade of hard lab work before you get to be a name thrown out on TV, and get to travel to the track to make appearances.


and i really like that video. kinda gives people a better idea of how air is really moving around the car as the car moves through it, rather than blows over it. oh, and terrific evidence against those who claim the "ram air" effect works, illustrating the real workings of the airbox slowing the air down before ingestion, increasing its static pressure. :D

and for a comment on F1, BAR finally did it after 5 years (making a decent car) by sticking to the basics (notice, no radical design shapes, construction techniques or aerodynamic strategies like there have been in the past) and doing what they know works. 'bout time Honda built a decent engine to go along with all of it too.

babylou

I still can't believe you are an economics student.

Hanzo

That is pretty much what I said just didn't go into detail like you did. Yes, down force is to increase grip between the tyres and the surface by applying force. The faster the car goes the more down force it produces, the more grip the car has. I should have made myself clearer I guess.

Hanzo

BTW did you guy notice the BAR's front wing element bends as the car gain more speed? I don't think any other team has that flexing on the element. I think BAR made just the right thickness of carbon fiber to create enough flex giving BAR an advantage on variable down force. Very smart design.

Gord96BRG

My favourite part of the video was the fact that it was still Villeneuve's helmet modelled in the car!

Yes, extremely cool video - it just hints at the complexity and the work that goes into the F1 aerodynamics. I love that stuff!

Regards,
Gordon

wakeech

what?? why not??

...and well, i'm not even an economics student anymore man. i like, dropped out. so i'm gonna start a program to become a mechanic (it's a newer fancier program that is suppost to incorporate managerial aspects into it and whatever... counts for 2 years of my apprenticeship, once i start).

so yeah, hopefully i'll be able to work on race cars, or own a shop and build race engines, or something. i just wanna get touchy feely with lotsa fast stuff, and hopefully not just repair air conditioning for $cdn 25 /hr.

more info on my first stepping stone.

wakeech

you've gotta be kidding. that's a really old idea, and when the wing flexes downward it's just to try and maximise the ground effect.

there are rules stipulating that there are certain tolerances the wings have to fall into regarding their dynamic "adjustability" these days.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

hey finance and economics is very math based, i could of easily been a scientist, mathematician, pre med guy but i used my applied mathematics skills to get a BS in Economics concentrating in finance...most sciences still appeal to me because i can apply some understanding to them.

babylou

This was a complement to his knowledge of the physics of the subject. I have mentioned this previously also. I've got no beef with economists. It would be nice though if you guys could agree on an economic theory.:D

I can't believe wakeech doesn't remember me telling him to drop economics and study his true calling of engineering. Instead he quits college all together

babylou

Do you remember the year when everybody was losing their rear wings? I think it was Villeneuves first at BAR. I think he lost two that year. Everyone was pushing the envelope until the FIA came up with the load test they have now.

wakeech

hahahaha, oh yeah... due to "acoustic vibration"... what a crock.

Hanzo

If you look at camera mounted on other cars in that view all of the cars they show don't flex through the same track. Adjustability is definitely stipulated by the FIA rulebook but this is not "adjustability ", it is not changed or set by the mechanics.

If you see another F1 team that has the flex front element let me know because through out this season I haven't seen one.

Hanzo

Back then they just didn't have enough budget to build a decent car because they had to pay Jacques Villeneuve LOL.