going car shopping with the 'ol man...
11-25-2005, 01:40 AM
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going car shopping with the 'ol man...
So my Dad drove up from Arizona to spend Thanksgiving with the family. At dinner he mentions that he's looking to replace his '97 Buick Park Avenue Ultra with an '05 model...the last year Buick will be offering this particular trim. He's very happy with his Buick. The car has over 120k miles on the clock, gets about 30mpg, and has plenty of power...280ft/lbs of torque at 3500 RPM's. It also comfortably holds four with plenty of room for their golf bags in the trunk. The car does however weigh about 3900lbs, is FWD, and only comes in a 4 speed AT. My dad has expressed some interest in AWD but doesn't wanna sacrifice gas mileage by getting an SUV. I can't blame him.
I've convinced him to at least look at some other cars before buying another Buick. He's not exactly thrilled with the prospect of looking at Japanese cars, but said he will keep an open mind as long as the car can...
1.) hold 4 people comfortably
2.) hold 4 golf bags in the trunk
3.) get close to 30mpg
4.) and has good power
Now that I've got his attention, I gotta say I'm honestly having trouble coming up with a list of cars that the measure up to the 'ol man's standards.
The Subaru Legacy GT would meet most, if not all, of his criteria, but I dunno about trunk space. Some publications have described the Legacy's trunk room as "cavernous", but compared to what? Out of contention is the Chrysler 300. Recently one of his friends bought one and said the interior room is outstanding but the trunk is apparently smaller than you would expect. The Lincoln LS is another big and powerfull RWD sedan, but gas mileage is closer to 25mpg than 30mpg and I know nothing about trunk space or interior head and legroom.
What else is there in this particular market segment?
I've convinced him to at least look at some other cars before buying another Buick. He's not exactly thrilled with the prospect of looking at Japanese cars, but said he will keep an open mind as long as the car can...
1.) hold 4 people comfortably
2.) hold 4 golf bags in the trunk
3.) get close to 30mpg
4.) and has good power
Now that I've got his attention, I gotta say I'm honestly having trouble coming up with a list of cars that the measure up to the 'ol man's standards.
The Subaru Legacy GT would meet most, if not all, of his criteria, but I dunno about trunk space. Some publications have described the Legacy's trunk room as "cavernous", but compared to what? Out of contention is the Chrysler 300. Recently one of his friends bought one and said the interior room is outstanding but the trunk is apparently smaller than you would expect. The Lincoln LS is another big and powerfull RWD sedan, but gas mileage is closer to 25mpg than 30mpg and I know nothing about trunk space or interior head and legroom.
What else is there in this particular market segment?
11-25-2005, 02:02 AM
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Blue By You
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This might help you out...
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
11-25-2005, 02:23 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions and thanks for the links Ike. Looks like the Avalon might be the king of the full size sedan right now. We'll start at the Toyota dealership. Maybe the AWD Ford 500 would also be worth a test drive, although he's not gonna like the power. I just read that the Chevy Impala is much improved over previous models too so maybe we'll check one of those out if we have time too.
I personally want him to want the Legacy GT, but I just don't think it has enough room to compete with the other cars.
I personally want him to want the Legacy GT, but I just don't think it has enough room to compete with the other cars.
11-25-2005, 10:42 AM
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Well, the trunk requirements may be the limiting factor here. What is the minimum trunk space required for 4 golf bags? The Park Avenue is just gigantic (~19.1 cu. ft. of trunk space compared to 11 for the Legacy). There are very few cars that have a bigger trunk than the 16 cu ft of the 300C that is already ruled out, so if that is too small, you are basically going to be limited to the traditional "old man" cars: Buick Park Avenue(dead)/Lucerne(new), Cadillac Deville(dead)/DTS(new), Ford Crown Vic/Mercury Grand Marquis, Pontiac Bonneville.
The only non-American cars that will fit the trunk space requirements are pretty pricey: Lexus LS430, Jaguar XJ-series, BMW 7-series (even the MB S-class has a too-small trunk).
The only non-American cars that will fit the trunk space requirements are pretty pricey: Lexus LS430, Jaguar XJ-series, BMW 7-series (even the MB S-class has a too-small trunk).
11-25-2005, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Steiner
I personally want him to want the Legacy GT, but I just don't think it has enough room to compete with the other cars.
Why not an Accord Hybrid?...Wicked on gas... it has 240Hp.... prolly not as powerful as his prior car but hey.. whaddya want.. it has enough power to adequately do whatever your dad wants to do.
I'm not sure about the trunk space though. However, I dont see it being a problem.
Last edited by TODreamer; 11-25-2005 at 11:00 AM.
11-25-2005, 12:21 PM
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No question, Mazda 6s 2005. Still powerful but much better handling than all the other FWDs and you'll going to get a great deal. Besides with a CP-E intake for just $539 http://www.cp-e.com/2001.html it will deliver an extra 25HP.
11-25-2005, 12:33 PM
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In German there's an expression for it: 'Aktive Sicherheit', which translates as active safety. (Vs. 'Passive Sicherheit' which translates as passive safety or in other words 37 air bags. Americans like to be safe when they crash their cars and Europeans also like to not crash their cars in the first place).
Anyway Better handling = active safety.
Still if his dad wants to save some dollars, he should have a look at the Mazda 6s. He should be able to get the 2005 model for less than $20k which btw comes with a 6 speed AT.
Anyway Better handling = active safety.
Still if his dad wants to save some dollars, he should have a look at the Mazda 6s. He should be able to get the 2005 model for less than $20k which btw comes with a 6 speed AT.
Last edited by globi; 11-25-2005 at 12:39 PM.
11-25-2005, 02:29 PM
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I'm guessing the Mazda6 and the Accord would probably be as tight on trunk space as the Subaru Legacy. I also can't picture my dad modding his car these days. He'd rather spend that money on a new putter, a BBQ or a new hunting rifle. Haha. And thanks for the heads up BlueEyes. I'm checking dealer inventory right now.
11-25-2005, 07:41 PM
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Steiner,
The 6 has a hatch version, which holds a rediculous amount of items if you put the rear seats down. Thats probably your best bang for the buck. You could easily get an 05 with a 6spd atx hatch for under 20k. Might want to check out the 06's if he likes or doesn't like the new styling.
The 6 has a hatch version, which holds a rediculous amount of items if you put the rear seats down. Thats probably your best bang for the buck. You could easily get an 05 with a 6spd atx hatch for under 20k. Might want to check out the 06's if he likes or doesn't like the new styling.
11-26-2005, 01:17 AM
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Ok the Mazda 6 fanbois need to give it up... 
They're nice cars but given the parameters aren't a very good choice in this scenario.
They're nice cars but given the parameters aren't a very good choice in this scenario.
Last edited by IkeWRX; 11-26-2005 at 01:24 AM.
11-26-2005, 06:30 AM
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Considering the 8's trunk holds 2 golf bags, I think any full sized car should meet the trunk requirements. I know the Accord's trunk is pretty big and should fit them.. I would look at the Accord or the Maxima
11-26-2005, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Steiner
I'm guessing the Mazda6 and the Accord would probably be as tight on trunk space as the Subaru Legacy
Or perhaps the Caddilac CTS - the 3.6 L 255HP one
Last edited by TODreamer; 11-26-2005 at 07:36 AM.
11-26-2005, 09:11 AM
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http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Actually none of these cars got 30 mpg. The best was the Avalon with 23 mpg. You really need to go Diesel or Hybrid to reach 30mpg figures. There would be lots of Diesel options in Europe, but of course hardly any in the US.
I'm sorry but if this what you're looking for, the Mazda 6 has it (apart from the 30 mpg) and still gets better mileage than the cars mentioned above.
Actually none of these cars got 30 mpg. The best was the Avalon with 23 mpg. You really need to go Diesel or Hybrid to reach 30mpg figures. There would be lots of Diesel options in Europe, but of course hardly any in the US.
Originally Posted by Steiner
1.) hold 4 people comfortably 2.) hold 4 golf bags in the trunk 3.) get close to 30mpg 4.) and has good power
11-26-2005, 11:02 AM
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what about the cadillac cts?
Looks pretty dam good. The higher end v6 produces 255 hp. Or you can get the v-series, 400hp
Looks pretty dam good. The higher end v6 produces 255 hp. Or you can get the v-series, 400hp
11-26-2005, 11:34 AM
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The Accord Hybrid and the Mercedes Benz E320 CDI are probably the only cars available in the US that would fulfill all points including mileage.
http://www.mbusa.com/campaigns/e320cdi/index.jsp
But with the extra costs he could also buy several golf bags.
http://www.mbusa.com/campaigns/e320cdi/index.jsp
But with the extra costs he could also buy several golf bags.