BlueEyes

Well, after reading this thread, I think it's time I post this video... http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...DC967B8311.htm
for no reason other than there are motorcycles and the theme song to top gun in it.


As well, I want to see some pictures of your house, it looks pretty cool from the garage/patio type shots

BlueEyes

I have only ever done shannonville in a race car, but was planning to take a bike school there next spring. It's a good track to learn on in a car, it would proabably be even better on a bike. Nice to know it comes recommended.

9291150

Nice vid Blue.

You’ll love the FAST school, they are real pros at a cost fraction of the US schools. Francis Martin was our group instructor (they group you into groups of 6-8 riders once they gauge your skill level in the morning), and he was last years Canadian Superbike Champ. I tried to push him and noticed that he was looking back, knee down, one hand on the bars, not even sweating. Humbling.

Shannonville has a lot of run off, safest course I know of. But if it is your first time, don’t worry cause they pace everybody, but sign up for the Fabi course rather than the Nelson. Nelson has a bumpy run-off area on grass at the end of the straight, guaranteed to throw you off. Plus, its a faster track and the pavement is more grooved by the cars…try not to drop into it at full lean. The long track or combined course is only used for phase 3, which is the prep course for racers.

flomulgator

9291150. Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can't quite figure how applying rear brake will compress the rear suspension though? I reviewed my experience and realized that since I am running a 1 liter V-twin, I am always running strong compression braking anytime I get off the throttle coming into a turn. I do remember the 600's having a more-difficult time settling into the lean and I could never figure out why......I had assumed that it was because my bike was about 70# heavier but this makes sense if it aids in "setting" the bike. I could see adding a minor slide to improve radius......according to "Speed Secrets" for cars at least a 5-8% lateral slip is the optimal traction point. However, I have never been bold enough to enduce such a slide on my own!

It also makes sense why I am more catious w/ my rear (after a few scary lockups!!) If I am running compression braking it will only take a minor amount of additional rear brake to lock 'er up. Whereas a bike like Oreo's 600 CBR will need more rear brake because it has none to begin with.

I've never ridden a bike w/ ABS and the idea scares me, judging by the chatter it produces in a car it seems that it would be upsetting to the balance of the bike when you need it most. Also, I would note that any bike that comes w/ ABS is not as leaned over and thus has a higher rear weight distribution, justifying more rear brake application. So I'm guessing you street ride either a Honda Interceptor or a BMW....am I right? What do your ride track?

Sorry for hijacking (kinda) your thread Oreo, your bike still rocks!!

flomulgator

just watched the video, it was awesome!!! Gotta love it when people are trying to squeeze that last 0.5% out of a machine. Those suspension shakes and shimmies gimme the ******* though!!

9291150

My flat twin engine (BMW R1150 w/ABS) also has strong compression braking like your 1000cc V-twin. Without rev matching, on a downshift it’ll slip its rear all the more (without a slipper clutch), which would only be complicated by rear wheel braking on a tire that’s already slipping. Rev matching is my Everest, can’t do it consistently while two-finger’n the front brakes, thats why I don’t always rear brake on the track.

Its hard to answer your question in words, but I certainly can feel the rear suspension compressing when I just use the rear brake. That’s what keeps less weight from being transferred at the initial grab at the front levers, you’re kind of hunkering down - or settling - the whole bike rather than just the front. But don’t know if I can explain it, something to do with inertia, pulling against the center of mass, position of the moon…

As for the ABS, its a semi integral system (front lever operates both, rear operates only rear). There is no ABS chatter, just servo noise. Otherwise it feels 100% conventional, but slightly wooden. In corners, it does stand the bike up more on the brakes than my sportbike, but I think that’s more a chassis design factor than a braking issue. Keep in mind that a telelever front suspension on a BMW nearly eliminates brake dive, so a conventional telescopic fork with ABS may feel differently. Its nice though having a bike that I can take my kid/wife around without worrying about locking up the front.

My sportbike / track ride is a CBR929RR with some work. Much faster than I am, often I’m just trying to stay on it rather than applying anything that I learned.

Razz1

Please take a riding class.

And if you can go to the track and take the classrom instruction too.

I've been riding longer than many of you are old.

It's defensive driving.

Keep your eyes Open and alway be aware.

Learn the bike. Drive slow for the first six months.

If you do that and pass then chance of an accident are little.

Learn how to be one with the bike.

Reflexes will then become automatic and you will save your life a few times and avoid several hundred to thousands accidents.

Do not drink and ride.

I've met too many want a bees in my life, few are dead and many injured.

Not every one has the skills.

If your smart you will learn and live properous.

Avoid the city like the plague. Too many intersections.

flomulgator

Funny Razz, till very recently I used to live in downtown Seattle and i think the best way to get around the city is on two powered wheels, and I think people are more concientious there because they are so concerned about their own vehicle they are actually paying attention.

Very interesting about the BMW. I know next to nothing about those bikes so its interesting to hear how they work. Numbers, i think I know what you mean.....I can feel it myself I just was trying to figure out the physics. Obviously those guys in the video where using rear brake!!!

As for rev matching I often don't bother. If I am not pushing it I will rev match between full brake and lean in so I don't have the 2 finger problem.....or if I am I pushing it or its getting hairy (and in my traditional way I want no rear brake) I pull the clutch as I muscle it into a lean w/ front trail braking, coast in neutral till the apex, shift as necessary (often not on a torquey V-twin) and smoothly engage w/ power as I exit. Pro'ly not as fast but it works.

CBR 929 is a sick bike. Your statement is more proof of my original statement that you can't realize the full potential of even a 600 on the street.....if you (who sounds like you know how to race) can't even fully open up your 929 on a track.......

Score one more for Honda!! (but I'd take an MV Agust F4 if FORCED on me )

Moostafa29

Nice bike.

Japan8

Twin Ring Motegi freakin' rocks! I only wish I had actually been racing instead of having to follow a pace car After the MotoGP race i went to, they let the spectators take their bikes on the track for a lap with the pace car. The surface was so smooth and so sticky... the sweepers and straights were awesome. God I need to ride again (bike's been dead for more than 2 years)...

Ebisu Circut in Fukushima Prefecture was ok... I might have enjoyed it more if I hadn't been raining earlier that day (and the whole trip up from Tokyo).

At the end of the day I will always be a car enthusiast first... but damn... there is nothing like riding a bike through the twisties.

Japan8

CBR600RR... sweet bike! I thought the CBR600F4i was the ****... and then Honda came out with the RR...

Although I'm much more of a V-Twin guy. I love the torque. One day I might pickup a SV1000S.

Power and bikes... skill is a big one. A good friend who used to race 125cc 2-strokes in California has a CBR400RR street bike and a GSXR750 (I think) race bike. He's damn fast. on his 400... I can never keep up with him. He regularly takes R1, Fireblades, etc. (some of the riders do race too) in the mountains... of course he'll get killed in the straights though.

Enough with the ancedotes though... speaking from my experience with commuting in Tokyo rush hour traffic and having my share of spills (thank God no injuries though)... it's like others have said... you are invisible to cars. Ride for your life... always on the defensive. And I suggest you stay away from riding in traffic until you've got both more seat time in and some kind of riding lessons... be it a saftey course or track school. Ultimately experience is the biggest teacher with bikes... I learned this the hard way.

flomulgator

forget the SV1000, get a Superhawk 996 like me!! And put high mounts on it! Then, like yours truly, you will have the baddest sounding street machine on the planet. Sadly they stopped making it this year but you can get late model used at a very good price b/c it's undervalued. Of course if you really want to step up to the V-twin plate and out-race ducati's, there's always teh RC51.

Japan8

Is the RC51 still in production in the US? That is actually what I really want. Of course a Duc 999S would be nice too... or even a 749S.

The "Superchicken"? I dunno... it's at least a Honda, but it's styling and suspension are dated. Even with high mounts... it's styling is "O - K" at best for me. Not to mention that the engine isn't even fuel injected (at least the rC51 is...).

flomulgator

the high mounts add power and drop weight but more than anything I love mine because they transform the note from that raspy tin common in V-twin sports to a deep, menacing burble that makes panties drop and baby jesus cry. But all the other V-twins will should do that too w/ a good system. I just mentioned my bike because it has a more "streetable" composure and posture than the ducati or RC51, aka, you can actually ride it for a couple hours. The styling is, of course, subjective. What I remember about the SV1000 is that it has somewhat similar partial fairings to the "Superchicken" and as I'm biased I prefer mine. I've heard you also get a better power curve and better ease of handling in the Honda. You are right to bitch about carbueration, it an issue if you travel over 3000' (1000m).

Of course if you are up to the challenge then of course the RC51 is the way to go.....there is no substitute that is less than $13k US in the V-Twin world. ...And therein lies the rub of the ducati, price. Yes they still sell the RC51 in the US new. Wouldn't they in Japan of all places?

9291150

Don't discount the superhawk, always a really well rated bike. I think it was overlooked since Honda had two similar sized but more potent bikes selling at the same time. I'm sure it's a better streetbike than the RC51, lighter too.

The only negative I ever heard was a poor fuel range, right flomulgator? I think I remember hearing that it had the biggest carbs. of any production bike, maybe the reason for the poor fuel consumption. But I also heard that the carburetion was flawless.

But the RC51 is a legend, world superbike champ and all. Met Ducati at their class and killed 'em.

Japan8

Styling is just a matter of taste... so don't take it personally. "Superchicken" is what one girl's boyfriend that had one on SVRider.com used to call his bike.

I like the SV styling, but after two used Suzuki and both having engine issues... I am thinking that Honda or Yamaha is the only way to go.

The RC51 has pretty much never been sold in Japan... but has been available as a reverse import. Most liter and over bikes are like that and even 600's are available too. The JDM model's have power restictors... I am not positive, but I think they stopped carrying the RC51 in Japan... have to check on that.

For long rides... the RC51's position and seat will kill. But that bike with high mounts is pure sex.

9291150

That displacement issue in Japan would really peeve me off!

By the way, if you get an RC, get a 2002 and after. They started using the works frame and swingarm and other parts. A way better bike as I remember.

Japan8

When the new style SV came out...mags did compros with the VTR1000, Aprilia Falco, Duc SS1000. Comments about the styling, handling and lack of FI were some of the biggest complaints.

An Aprilia RSV 1000 would be a sweet bike to also have... if you want something besides Duc.

flomulgator

You are right about the fuel range, that has been the rags single biggest complaint. I get about 100 mi range, obviously more if I am just going down the highway. I think I read somewhere too that it has monster carbs....I haven't ventured into the world of motorcycle repair yet (but who needs to on a Honda?) Forgot about the Aprillia which is stupid b/c my friend's husband rides a Falco, she rides the SV 650. That is a good bike too, and has distinctly different styling that is more in line w/ the duc.

Japan is so goddamn strange sometimes. You make the fastest bikes in the world but can't even use them? How did that ever come about? If you were serious about getting a hold of one there are a ton of post 2002's used for sale over here on the west coast of the US at major port cities w/ low mileage because they don't make the best daily rider (and owners cherish them). You could probably buy one on EBay and have it shipped and imported and not break retail new ($12k) price. Just a thought Slap on those high mounts and you'd sure make an impression when cruising Shibuya!

Japan8

One of Ducati's top 3 markets is Japan. They have all kinds of sponsored special events and stuff at MotoGP races, etc. The prices make me cry, but so does sitting on a 999R.

I don't know about the SV650, but the SV400 has great gas mileage. When I was commuting in heavy traffic, it was about 22-30km one way and I filled up about once a week.

The Falco is a good bike... I just don't care much for the styling. Now if you walk about the RSV 1000 / Mille... oh yeah... I'd be all over one of those. Definitely another good Duc alternative.

The bike licensing system is just annoying, but not such a huge deal (scooter, small bike, mid-class, large/open class). Either by makers' agreement or law (I dunno which)... they limit the output of each class of bikes... 400cc, 600cc, 1000cc, etc. Actually I think that everything bigger likea 'Busa are all reverse imports... and most people tend to buy reverse imports too. The shops that sell JDM models often advertise that they can mod the engine when you buy it to put out the same power as the reverse imports (you saw this a lot with the CBR600RR and 1000RR).

RC51's have been hard to find and I am pretty sure that Honda JDM isn't offering them anymore. But if they are still available abroad, then there are definitely going to be reverse imports. I've heard that they are rough... both riding position and power... for daily riding, but are monsters on the track.

I am not entirely sure what the reasons are for things here sometimes. They have a different way of thinking that isn't always logical (by the western definition of logic). The highways rock... rarely ever are they police patrols... usually only in areas that have lots of accidents/racing... otherwise there are just speed camera towers... which are useless on bikes since they only take a picture of your front plate and face (no plate and a helmet). So bikes riding up the Tohoku Expressway to popular bike places like Irohazaka / Tochigi just open up full throttle. Sucked being on a 400cc then... the guys on the GSXR750, Duc 748 and VTR1000 were just flying. Told me that they hit about 225km/h. Another guy I rode with sometimes had a ZX-12 and got pulled over (well he was nice and pulled over) on the Daisan Keihin doing 221km/h. He had his license revoked or suspended for several months (difference is in having to retake tests) and had to go to court... his fine was $1,200. I got busted on my way home for work once... 81km/h in a 50km/h zone... fine... $500.

9291150

Thanks Japan8 for that insight, very interesting.

About RC51 being monsters on the track...having ridden one I found that they steer very slowly and feel very heavy, not flickable, for a track bike. Their good traits are great stability once leaned over, and an ability to put the power down - a combination of a long swingarm, low torque and very even power pulses of the V-twin. They'll power straight out of turns while I'll be fighting wheelies or wheelspin on my Fireblade.

What they really are is a great foundation for a full on superbike once you get the engine fully kitted (otherwise its kinda soft) and top shelf Ohlins suspension components on it. If you don't plan on doing lots of $$ mods, I think there are far better sportbikes out there.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

when you make back to orlando i think you might enjoy a drive on my v strom.

beers