dmp

Both of those SUVs look pretty slick. Not power-houses...but nice-looking. The fusion/milan/Zephyr are boring, underpowered, and fwd.

:D :beers:

Explorer - Mountaineer: Trucks. Ford Trucks are cool
Escape/Mariner: Trucks_Light. Ford Light Trucks are aight.
Fusion/Milan/Zephyr: Lower/equal performance and no better - likely worse fuel economy than Honda, Toyota, or Mazda - to name three, off the top of my head.

I'd like to see Ford grab their ***** and bring to market those cars with attitude we can't get stateside...cars like the Focus RS; Ford brings a hot-compact here, with quality workmanship, and an exciting driving experience, and ford makes a LOT of money.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

as already stated a turn in a box with a 3yr/5yr/10yr/27billion year warrenty is still what it is. Hyundai is losing their *** on their warrenty becasue it is costing them so much to do all the warrenty work. So because of that they take the decisions making ability for warrenty work out of the hands of the dealership and put it all in the hands of a single "regional director" whos sole job is to watch the bottom line. This leads to a lot of customers getting bent over on work that should be covered because they simply cant afford it. I am very sorry i purchased a hyundai for this singular reason and so are many others. The proof of this is out there if you go look for it. I would have much rather had a 3yr warrenty that meant something, OR had the mfg just be honest with me and not give me a warrenty and tell me "Hey our cars are cheap but thats because they are shitty"

I hope for ford's customer's sake the new line with the extended warrenty are good qnough quality that they wont have similar problems.

therm8

Great move by Ford. Likely (hopefully) this means that GM will follow suit shortly.

Look how this helped Hyundai. They started by selling cheap, economy cars that no one had much interest in. Offer up a very nice warranty, then people start taking a look. Sales, and thus profit, rise. Keep the warranty, but now they can build bigger and better cars, and sell them at higher prices. Quality and sales continue to rise, all while entering into markets they couldn't touch 10 years ago. Now they make pretty nice cars, and quality on many models are on par with their competitors. Brand image for Hyundai is vastly different from what it was 10 years ago. Not to mention them beating out Honda and many "reliable" makes the past couple of years in reliability ratings.

Paying for repairs to customers cars forces quality to rise, simply because that's the only way to cut costs short of ditching the warranty. Not to mention the fact that warranty terms are very important to the average consumer, and will give an immediate public perception of better quality. Ford's quality is generally above average, but the public doesn't percieve it that way. They still have the Ford of the mid to late 80's in their heads. This will go a long way towards improving consumers' views of Ford, which will get people into the dealerships to buy cars. Quality will only go up from there.

Paul_in_DC

Heh. Well since the "powertrain" as such is one of the more reliable systems in most cars, that's hardly earth-shattering. Don't do handsprings until you read the fine print.

It shows Ford is growing desperate. (IMO, of course...)

Red Devil

Personally, this doesn't make me want to buy a Ford anymore than before. It will probably attract buyers, but when Ford builds a car I want is when they'll get me into their showroom.

therm8

No one offers extremely long non powertrain warranties. If you see an advert for a 10yr/100k warranty, that's for the powertrain only.

For example, Nissan offers a 5yr/60k powertrain but only 3yr/36k on everything else. Infinity gets 6yr/70k for the powertrain and 4yr/60k on the rest. Hyundai has 10yr/100k pwrtrain and 5yr/60k on the rest. Toyota: 5yr/60k pwrtrain, 3yr/36k on the rest. Mazda 4yr/50k on both. Etc, etc, etc.

It shows that Ford is catching up to the rest of the world. Having the worst warranties in the business is not good for business.

rx8wannahave

Yup, BUILD DA DANG IOSIS....I mean it's SUPER GOOD LOOKING! Talk about a 4 door sports car that would sell BIG TIME!!!!!

The bean counters control to much in the US auto companies....

mjd

Want some bad news..starting with the'07 model year, all Mazda vehicles will only have a 3 year, 36000 mile warranty as opposed to the 4 year 50000 mile warranty they currently have. Very bad business decision on Mazda's part, IMO. If you want to see for yourself, check out the window sticker on the CX-7. I went to test drive an '06 RX-8 the other day just for the hell of it and I just happened to be looking at the CX-7 in the showroom and sure enough, there it was. I asked the salesman about it and all '07s will go to this warranty.

grapes

Not too smart on Mazda or Ford's part!!!!

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler just went this route, too.

When I turned my Liberty in, the salesman I knew was trying to convince me to get another Jeep then, because that was the last crop to have the 7 Year/70,000 mile powertrain warranty.

Bad, bad, bad....

bascho

I agree 100% that Ford should stop building a unique version for the US market. The Euro Focus that is sold in almost every other market is a class leading car in it's market segment. I am not sure if Americans are ready to really embrace the B-class segment.....but when we are Ford has a really competent package in the Fiesta.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

Ford's problems are so deep, it makes GM look like a well-run company:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...TO01/607150410

Ford buyouts speed up

JOB CUTS: Up to 24,000 hourly workers will be gone by end of 2007 WALL STREET SKEPTICAL: Credit rating is downgraded, stock slumps

Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News


Ford Motor Co. expects to shed between 22,000 and 24,000 hourly jobs in North America by the end of next year and likely will exceed its goal of cutting some 30,000 factory jobs by 2012, according to company sources.

They say the company's downsizing effort is proceeding more rapidly than analysts had projected. The apparent success of Ford's buyout program is one sign of progress amid an otherwise deteriorating financial situation, and could go a long way toward helping the company rein in its legacy costs. Ford has 87,000 factory workers. However, it is unlikely to make much of a difference to Wall Street, which has lost patience with Ford's turnaround effort and is bracing for more bad news when the automaker reveals its second quarter earnings next Thursday.

The financial community took a dim view of last Thursday's board decision to cut stock dividends in half, fearing the move signals more serious liquidity problems at the beleaguered automaker. Ford's North American automobile business lost $1.6 billion last year, and some analysts fear the company could lose as much as $2.5 billion in the region this year. Bloomberg News, citing unnamed sources, said Friday that figure could go as high as $3 billion.

Deutsche Bank analyst Rod Lache, who estimates Ford will use up $4 billion in cash reserves in 2006, said the company's continuing loss of market share and weak product mix have put its North American restructuring plan in jeopardy.

Others on Wall Street echoed those concerns.

"We do not think a dividend cut would be as necessary if Ford was making good progress on its 'way forward' restructuring plan, which targets returning the (North American) auto business to profitability by 2008," said Robert Barry, who follows Ford for Goldman Sachs in New York. "It has been our view that this goal is ambitious and unlikely."

Shares slip on debt rating

On Friday, Moody's Investors Service lowered its Ford debt rating further into junk status, citing "considerable additional stress" on the automaker in the region.

Ford's shares were buffeted by the growing concern over the company's future Friday, with shares losing 18 cents to close at $6.38.

Some analysts said Ford's shares are likely to fall even lower.

Bear Stearns' Peter Nesvold expects Ford's stock to fall to $4 a share, citing the company's decision to renege on its pledge to produce 250,000 hybrids a year by 2010, the departure of key executives and a shift to lower-margin passenger cars and crossovers from more-profitable sport utility vehicles.

"We think the dividend cut is prudent," Nesvold said. "However, the more investors digest the news, the more likely they are to view as reactionary, rather than part of a well-planned turnaround."

Buyout strategies vary

The pace of Ford's work force reduction program is a big source of Wall Street's frustration.

GM has offered buyouts to all of its 113,000 hourly employees in the United States. More than 35,000 workers took advantage of the offer by the June 23 deadline, and are expected to leave the company by the end of the year.

In contrast, Ford is only offering buyouts at some of its factories. Fewer than 6,000 Ford workers had accepted buyout offers as of July 1. That figure includes 3,450 workers at Ford factories and another 2,300 Ford employees at facilities operated by Automotive Components Holdings LLC, a holding company set up to liquidate the unprofitable properties of Ford's former parts subsidiary, Visteon Corp.

Though Ford has vowed to eliminate between 25,000 and 30,000 factory jobs over the next six years as part of its North American restructuring plan, analysts worry that those cuts are proceeding too slowly -- particularly given the rapid pace of GM's downsizing.

But Ford insiders say it is unfair to compare the two companies' buyout strategies. After all, Ford has far fewer employees in its jobs bank program, where idled workers continue to collect most of their pay and benefits.

Ford began working more than four years ago with the United Auto Workers to control hiring at its U.S. plants and use overtime to handle peaks in production. It also began moving idled workers out of its jobs bank program and into open positions on the assembly line. As a result of these actions, Ford only has about 1,300 workers in its jobs bank program, compared to about 9,000 in GM's pool.

As a result, Ford sources say the company can afford to take a more careful and focused approach to downsizing its factory work force, only offering buyouts at those factories with excess capacity and matching the downsizing with its production needs.

"The situation at GM was a little more severe," said Mike Jackson, an analyst with CSM Worldwide in Farmington Hills. "They needed to move more quickly."

Workers: Follow GM plan

Some Ford workers at plants that have not been offered buyouts also wish the company would follow GM's example and make the offers systemwide. But Ford sources say it does not make sense to pay workers to leave factories where they are needed.

Ford is on track to complete between 10,000 and 11,000 buyouts by the end of this year and expects to shed another 2,000 hourly employees through the normal process of attrition. Sources said the company will eliminate at least that many positions next year.

Ford would not confirm the exact numbers. However, Ford spokeswoman Marcey Evans said the company is pleased with the pace of its downsizing effort.

"Our use of voluntary hourly employee separation programs has been instrumental in assisting with the implementation of 'way forward' capacity actions," Evans said. "In fact, our acceptance rate of these packages is ahead of schedule."

But Wall Street analysts like Bradley Rubin with BNP Paribas say Ford still needs to do more, noting that Ford will still be two years behind GM if it meets those projections.

"They've always been conservative," he said. "Sometimes you've got to fix it in a dramatic fashion."

Japan8

Analysts and investment bankers.... bah! They all play a legalized version of horse racing and think themselves gods for it. But when these guys are wrong... it's never a little wrong... it's crashing countries' economies wrong. I put about as much faith in them as I do snake oil... and I have yet to meet one that I like any more than I do snake oil either!

And even if they are "usually" or "mostly" right, they're one of the main causes of the evil of American corporations greed. If a company isn't making more profits and taking more market share... if it doesn't meet THEIR expectations, then stocks prices fall, media, blah, blah... and really... what does any of that have to do with how well a business is being run? ANd so the continual race to cut every corner, pinch every penny and screw everyone from employees to customers over to save that one extra penny... and then pay some lazy fat cat CEO a multi-million dollar bonus for record profits that year.

It all just makes me sick.

Paul_in_DC

^^ Agreed.

zoom44

not correct entirely. i wrote about this a little while ago. for 2007 Mazda is splitting the warraenty like all the other companies have. along the lines of what mazdamaniac was saying above

the powertrain warrenty goes UP to 6 years 60k mile. the bumper to bumper moves down to 3year 36k

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...Mazda#warranty

zoom44

they think ford will go to 4 bucks? hell its time to by some ford stock

automaton

Does anyone on this forum really look at the warranty to help them decide which car to buy? I sure as hell didn't when i bought my 8.

I know the warranty is aimed at the "average consumer" that is in the market for an appliance (a.k.a. refridgerator on wheels) that makes them feel secure, but more and more that trend has been bucked. I suppose not entirely, since Hyundai has built it's empire on the back of it's 10k warranty, while selling wholly unsavory autos (until recently.... they've really upped their ante and built some decent new cars).

Anyway, I find this good news, but small news. I don't think it will turn the tides in Ford's favor or anything.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

I'll be a big buyer at 4.

Paul_in_DC

I did - nanny nanny boo boo! Of course, I probably would have bought it anyway.

Japan8

Not really, but it helps...

bascho

To answer your question yes, people care about warranty periods. Even you care.....you just don't know it. Want proof? Would you have bought your RX8 with a 90-day/900-mile warranty? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Red Devil

While not a bad point, that's a bit extreme. No new car offers a warranty like that with the exception of maybe some exotics or kits. If the car I want has a 3yr/36000 warranty and another a 7yr/100000 warranty, I'm still getting the car I want with the lesser warranty. And when the time comes, near all manufacturers sell warranty extensions.

But if all things were equal between two cars, and I felt the same about both manufacturers, than I would probably purchase the one with the more comprehensive warranty.

bascho

I was being extreme only to make the point that warranties do impact our decisions....it's the existence of similar warranty periods that causes indifference to this perk. For the most part Ford builds mainline vehicles which compete with very similar vehicles from other manufacturers. Some markets are so competitive that warranty period becomes a much stronger selling point........if only for reassuring you about perceived quality gaps between offerings. The RX8 is a lousy car to use for a barometer of automotive purchase behavior......in fact Mazda as a whole is not a good sample of what Americans want.....hence the low total sales volume in the US. Mazda is all about 'driving' and your standard issue American 'commutes'. As much as we bash the domestics for being bland and boring.....3 out of 5 people in the US drive a Ford, GM or DCX product. Why? Americans are bland and boring.