VikingDJ

Well, I am not sure if I can handle the power loss. I'm stopping myself from going stage 1 and 2 in this sti, and it's not easy. I'm a old school mod guy, so it's not easy for me to not mod this STI. I drive a lot of miles, and I wear down cars fast, which is why modding a daily driver is a hesitating thing for me. The Sti sure as hell can't be a fun summer car for me. I look at the GTI, and I see a better car, if you go outside the performance box, and look into at it diifferently, much like people look at the RX8. I saw the same better car when I owned the RX8. For me it's a struggle between looks, amenities, luxury and performance. I'll be satisfied with keeping my STI as a daily, maybe modding it to stage 1. Looking at that GTI though, the struggle is starting to begin.

Japan8

According to VW/GTI forums... it's underrrated. VW says 210hp (flywheel) and it's dynos are like 190-200hp. Engine is easily chipped (ECU flash) for another 30 or so hp and adding a turbo back exhaust is supposed to take you to around 268hp.

Japan8

Personally... if the r32 came to the US and cost under $30k... there'd be no discussion about what car I'd be getting. You come to the GTI... the FWD thing really gets to me.... and concerns about VW reliablity... which I hear should be better since all the Golf's are made in Germany now.

Tell you want... if you can't wait for the r32, get the GTI and mod it. ECU flash, turbo back exhaust and soon intake... hitting just under 300hp won't be hard.

Handling... one of the magazine reviews (R&T or C&D) got .90g on the skidpad for the GTI. I forget what the slalom was... but basically it's supposed to handle well and with mods it'll probably be a FWD champ.

The Civic Si... screw it. No low end torque, weany tires (you can get optional 18" from the factory on the GTI) and the backseat it tight according to all reviews. The GTI's backseat can hold two regular-sized adults. And lastly... the Civic is a Honda (and we all know I HATE Honda)... nuff said.

Ike

190 wouldn't be all that underrated considering there is no power steering pump for the car to power and it's FWD. But yes, it's still a little underrated, much like the new SI seems to be.

Keep in mind all the VW/Audi chip guys usually use crank horsepower, how they arrive at these numbers I'm not sure... I've seen dynos of stock vs. chipped and they're gaining in the area of 20-30whp usually putting down about 210whp maybe 220 if someone is really lucky, which is a huge difference from 265whp.

Ike

Correct, the GTI is very linear. The RX-8 is more fun IMO, the GTI is a great car but like most german cars lacks passion, it's a bit cold feeling.

Japan8

That is a good point, but as you mentioned... even so it is a bit underrated.

I suspected the numbers were flywheel, but even so the 265 number is not just chipped... that's also with a turbo back exhaust system. The crazier numbers are from German or European tuners who have also gone to changing internals and at the top end upping the displacement.

Interesting that the power is so linear.... I would have thought that with the torque peak at 1800rpm it'd pull strong from down low unlike the RX-8. That combined with the "German sports car" feel... I would have thought that it'd feel more "lively" than the RX-8. Interesting...

Ike

Once you get past the wheelspin I have little doubt it would run even with or even pull on an RX-8, but you never get that little extra push in higher RPMs like with the RX-8. I'm just going by what I felt, but that feeling may not be fair to the GTI since at the time I drove the RX-8 I didn't own an Evo. To be honest, if I wasn't trying to keep a fair perspective on things I'd say the new GTI is dog slow... But it's not, I'm sure a lot of people will think it's fast and fun.

Japan8

^^ imagine how magazine writers must feel. They test drive Evos, STis, Corvettes, and Porsches galore. Then they have to test drive GTI's, RX-8's and Accords...


GTI probably feels fast and fun for most. But the RX-8 feels faster and more fun? Is your impression?

I wonder how back to back test drives of both now would turn out for you...

Steiner

Nice review Ike. So is the rainbow flag bumper sticker standard or an option on the new GTI. I joke, I joke. But seriously, do the back seats fold down to give you more room in the back?

VikingDJ

Since I owned an rx8 for almost 2 years and have not forgotten the feel of it (glued in my memory forever because of how special the rx8 is), I'll be able to add to this after tomorrow, assuming they will let me test drive it. If I end up really loving the way this car drives (already prefer the looks inside and out over the sti, and also the more amenities), I'll be looking to buy one down the road if the power is sufficient enough for me. I have to keep an open mind, because I am gonna suffer a very noticable power loss, although not nearly as major as Ike. It's a good thing I did not mod this sti, otherwise it very well could ruin my chances of getting one. What makes this possible is that I think it looks far nicer then the STI both inside and out, and the tranny alone might persuade me, because I can really use an automatic with the heavy intense traffic I drive through. We shall see.

playdoh43

maybe you should take a look at this?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....ticle_id=10627

Steiner

Going from AWD back to FWD would be rough.

Ike

Not a clue, but would be good to know so maybe Viking will pay attention.

Also, as good as the new GTI is, even if the power was enough for me, I'd still be cursing the FWD every time I wanted to take off quickly.

GULAMAN

well, you say that....but I'll bet you the change in my pocket that the Si will beat the GTI on any road course on the planet (for less $$ at that). on the C&D comparo at least, the GTI was clearly down on skidpad and slalom to the Honda, even with the latter's so-called weany tires. and if you start talking mods...well Honda can play that game as well as anybody, as we all know. the GTI being 300+ lbs heavier and no LSD is a definite handicap when comparing vehicle dynamics to the Si (or other hot FWD compacts for that matter).

That being said, the GTI (esp. w/ DSG) would still be a pretty darn good overall daily driver, compared to the Si or Rx8. Slogging thru commuter traffic would be much more tolerable with that DSG set on full-auto mode, compared to operating a standard.

Japan8

No DSG for me. Trust me... traffic in a manual doesn't phase me... in Tokyo, DC, NC or FL. Even done it in a pushrod V8 Mustang... and trust me that clutch is a serious workout. Still noway I'd ever get automatic again... double H AND clutch or die.

The Civic.. maybe but I personally have no love for HOnda, I find the Civic Si dull looking outside and I HATE the dashboard. All adds up to another Honda that will definitely not end up in my driveway.

RX Renesis

hey Ike, if it doesn't have power steering pump, then what kind of steering does it have? just want to know how it works..

VikingDJ

I'm done looking if it's not in the $30k mark. As for switching from AWD to FWD, think of it this way. I drive 30k miles per year, most of are which highway, and in traffic. I simply don't get to use this STi to it's potential very often, and when I do have free road and time, I am not in my STI, I am in my S2K, because that's my fun car. In other words, I'm just not sure I'm gonna miss AWD. Yeah it's gotten me through some rough deep snow, but I purposely drove through those storms when I didn't have to, just because I wanted to have a little fun in the STi. Now tell me this guys. , and be honest. If you drove 25-30k miles per year on a continous level, most of it being highway and traffic would you buy an STI? Maybe I should try and get myself to use the STI more for fun, but it's hard to do, when you own an S2K. That car is a total blast.

Ike

It has electro-mechanical power steering which has no parasitic power loss since the only power it draws is electric.

Here's an interesting article if you want to learn more.

http://www.embedded.com/showArticle....leID=164904435

RX Renesis

if i had to sit in traffic most of my time then i rather have something more comfy than a STi and probally most likely an automatic too... so i think the GTi suits u better in the long run if ur intrested...

VikingDJ

Well, I went to VW yesterday. I was looking at a white dsg model with the 17 all seasons. Wasn't thinking about the 18 inch one with summer tires. This one was sharp. Had every option except the rim package and navigation. Didnt take long before the greeter came out, and intrduced the salesman. That kind of made me laugh. I thought to myself " here comes the *** kissing fest". They had me figured out, as eyes gleemed, watching me drive by the showroom in my STI. You pick slow days, you are gonna go through this. Anyway, I told the guy I was looking into the GTI as a replacement for my STI, but was planning on doing it in spring or early summer, so he had a silver DSG model they use for test drives. I have to say, the moment I started it up, and pulled out of lot, I was already impressed. A lot of what Ike said, I agree with. I'll add a few things though. I do think this car will seem fast to even an RX8 owner, because that torque is there the moment you start to move. It's quite remarkable actually. I have to say IMO it feels a bit faster then my RX8 did, but as I went along, it became hard to tell. It's really that low end torque and pull that makes it feel that way, so I understand it might not be. it's just the feel. They feel too different to accurately know. I will say that it would be quite a good race. The handling is nimble. I didn't get the chance to truly test car, but I hit some turns, and it is definitely the best handling FWD car I have ever driven. I love the interior, and the seats. Stereo system sounds very good. I love the 6 disc mp3 cd changer standard. The dsg has me sold. I will own a VW with dsg at some point afer that test drive. It's hard to tell it even shifts under normal driving. I really don't think that car suffers any powerloss whatsoever vs manual. It certainly feels and drives like a more expensive car then my STI. It's much smoother, quieter, interior is way better, it looks more sopphisticated on the outside, and there is no doubt it makes a better daily car. However, the power differce is obviously there. Of coures to Ike, it's probably very anemic. Overall, this car is very quick responsive. It does not feel like a 2 liter thats' for sure.
I was talking to the salesman after the drive, and he was telling me that the Corrado is coming back, used on a GTI platform. Not sure how accurate this stuff is, but that surprised me. That was a great car, so it makes sense. He also said the new R32 is not making it to US. As of now, the R36 is set to make it to US sometime between 2008-2010. There really is no time table. He said they will also be putting the 3.6 liter into an AWD Jetta and Passat in the future, as AWD versions of several cars are coming. I told him honestly that I wanted to get an early feel on the GTI, and plan to buy a new car in early summer. He actually was cool, and told me, you might wanna hang onto your car and wait it out, because this GTI is just the top of iceberg, and higher performers will be here before too long. I am definitely buying from that guy. He knew a lot about this car.

Overall, this car is fabulous,and a pure winner. There are three problems I have buying it right now. #1, car is full sticker. You aren't gonna find deals on this car anytime soon. #2, the jury is still out on reliability, is car is still unproven. and third, giving up the STI for a less powerful FWD car is not as easy to do as I thought it would be, regardless of it's better looks, refinement, and daily capability. This salesman own an 04 R32 himself, and is very proud of that car. He's waiting on the R36. He was telling me he test drove the STi and EVO before he got his, but he needed more refinement, and luxury, and shares my view about the lackluster interior, and cheapish exterior looks. He still praised the STI though for how it drives and performs. VW has their act together when it comes to refinement. The interiors of their cars, are simply amazing. I'm gonna own either a GTI, or an R36, it just depends on hw patient I am. The STI is approaching the expensive maintanence phase, so I could end up dishing it out for a GTI this summer, and buy time for the R36. Either thay or I bite it and spend the money on the service interval, and keep car for a while. We shall see.

Japan8

Being a VW fan and such aside... which would you get? An RX-8 or a GTI? How do the two compare to you?

VikingDJ

Each of these cars is in two different classifications for my personality. I do not look at the RX8 in a daily driver/commuter car category. It's in the fun sports car category for me. The GTI is in that daily driver category. If I lived in an area that did not have winter, I do believe if I could only get one car I would choose the RX8 hands down, because it's a sports car with incredible looks. The GTI is more practical to me because it gets much better gas mileage, has nearly just as much power, and offers you the low end torque that the RX8 can not offer. If I had to choose a fun car, the RX8 would hands down be my choice over the GTI. If I have to use it daily and in winter year round, the GTI is my choice. I generally am comparing the GTI to my STI, and the RX8 was compared to my S2K. I got rid of the RX8 purely because it was stuck in between a daily driver and a fun car for me. I needed a convertible to as a fun car, and something AWD or FWD as a daily driver. I still miss my RX8, but convertible factor alone makes me enjoy the S2000 more as a fun car. If Mazda makes a convertible RX8, the S2K is gone. I suppose it's just not feasable to compare the GTI to an RX8, because they are built for two different purposes. Even though their performance may be similiar, that's where the comparison ends.

Japan8

I dunno.... I'm considering cross-shopping them. I can only own 1 car. I don't do convertibles and I don't do two seaters. Like most of us, I don't particularly care for FWD. Obviously I want something sporty and enjoyable to drive, but this is my everything... daily driver, fun car, etc. No automatics (SMG and DSG are autos in my mind). Guess I just gotta go drive them hard and see which one feels better to me...

VikingDJ

Yeah, that is the point I was making. If I could only afford one car, I'd be in a
much tougher dilemma. I'd say that if I could only have one car, I'd likely have bought the R32 when it was out, and now I would be looking at the new Eclipse Convertible that is due out later this year. I know people mock that car, but there is a black one sitting out in parking lot across form my STI, and that car is very nice looking to me. I'd have to take a 263hp FWD roadster, because that car would ultimately be the best choice for both fun car and daily driver, since I am into convertibles. If winter wasn't an issue, and I could only have one car. The RX8 would have stayed, and I'd own nothing else right now.
It's normal to cross shop all kinds of cars, no matter how different they are, if you can only own one. I'd look at more then just the RX8 and GTI if I were you. It does seem like the RX8 is a nice fit though, because it's practical, very sexy, and has good power. Good luck!!

Japan8

I've got several months until I'll be looking to really hunt and purchase... so there's time to spare.

Unfortunately there isn't much else on the market... under $25k... the cheaper the better. That combined with what I'm looking for makes for tough shopping... that's why one reason to gather info early.