Is Lexus imploding?
#51
Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Yes it's true, if you see an IS300 with an FMIC you can bet it's pretty damn fast.
The IS has never been a big seller, it's worse now than when it was introduced but when you don't change much on a car for 5 years that tends to happen... I'm just trying to figure out why Tyrell seems so passionate about it.
The IS has never been a big seller, it's worse now than when it was introduced but when you don't change much on a car for 5 years that tends to happen... I'm just trying to figure out why Tyrell seems so passionate about it.
#52
Originally Posted by Gambit
The IS has been a sales disappointment, but it is a pretty cool car. This is what I've seen for the potential next generation
PS I think Tyrell's car affections are misplaced - see his thread on the new Hyundai sonata
PS I think Tyrell's car affections are misplaced - see his thread on the new Hyundai sonata
Well, I think everyone is in agreement that the IS has been a disappointment for Lexus in 2004.
And as I qualified in the Sonata thread, I have no biased affections for Hyundai as their cars have been total **** so far aside from the current Tiburon, which is **** everywhere except for the exterior. Mark my words. This all new Sonata is a breakthrough for Hyundai. I believe I'm the only person on this forum who has seen them in person and on the road. And as I said in the other thread, place your bets. I've placed mine. Let's see what happens.
#53
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I'm not impressed by the ES at all--it is a Camry with a really nice interior--I was more of a fan of Lexus in 1998 when they still had the SC300/SC400, GS400/GS300, and previous ES300. Hopefully the new IS will be mostly carryover from that LFS concept.
#56
Screw gas mileage
Originally Posted by TyrellCorpNexus8
Gambit, that is a hot pic. I've never seen that before. If that's the new IS, then it's going to be a winner. And it's probably packing quite an engine, right?
The IS was disappointing in the respect that Lexus REALLY wanted to knock the 3-series off its pedestal, and even though the IS is a kickass car, they couldn't do it. The 3-series has too much of a good, longstanding reputation and owner loyalty, as well as the BMW brand name, not that Lexus is anything to sneer at. The 3-series also has the IS beat in choices, since there's two engines, 2 or 4 doors, and a convertible. The new IS should have a coupe and sedan variant, and they've been talking about a hardtop convertible (seen on the LF-C concept)
#57
Originally Posted by TyrellCorpNexus8
IBoth have been disappointments, the IS especially because of the tail-off in sales the last year that Lexus DID NOT foresee (because they underestimated the new products the competition would bring out),
#58
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
I don't know why you think Toyota could not predict a slide of sales for the IS. They haven't changed the car in 5-6 years, anyone with half a brain could predict this. I just don't feel it was at the top of their proirity list.
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Originally Posted by DreRX8
the IS has 215HP--remember the 3.0L in the old Supra in its non-turbo charged form were rated at 220HP. That is why Toyota Soarers and Aristos (SC300s and GS300s) are so easily modified--there are several aftermarket turbocharged SC300s and GS300s roaming around the U.S.
#60
Originally Posted by Gambit
Here's a shot of the back...I haven't heard anything about the new engine, other than it's going to be a V6 instead of an I6. I also heard something about offering an IS430 (with a V8) in the current body style to generate enthusiasm for the new model. They probably won't do it though.
The IS was disappointing in the respect that Lexus REALLY wanted to knock the 3-series off its pedestal, and even though the IS is a kickass car, they couldn't do it. The 3-series has too much of a good, longstanding reputation and owner loyalty, as well as the BMW brand name, not that Lexus is anything to sneer at. The 3-series also has the IS beat in choices, since there's two engines, 2 or 4 doors, and a convertible. The new IS should have a coupe and sedan variant, and they've been talking about a hardtop convertible (seen on the LF-C concept)
The IS was disappointing in the respect that Lexus REALLY wanted to knock the 3-series off its pedestal, and even though the IS is a kickass car, they couldn't do it. The 3-series has too much of a good, longstanding reputation and owner loyalty, as well as the BMW brand name, not that Lexus is anything to sneer at. The 3-series also has the IS beat in choices, since there's two engines, 2 or 4 doors, and a convertible. The new IS should have a coupe and sedan variant, and they've been talking about a hardtop convertible (seen on the LF-C concept)
That IS and its engine options, combined with cars from Infiniti, Mercedes, Mazda, Audi, and Acura, is going to kick the new BMW 3-series' ***. Hopefully.
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Originally Posted by TyrellCorpNexus8
Fair enough. So it seems Toyota has a way to go to be really PERFECT. They are the most feared carmaker but they do have many holes in their line-ups, which has given other companies room to find niches and breathe. It's amazing they can be so profitable with so many holes. The ES and IS are their combined tag team to take a bite out of the 3-series, yet it seems they were never given enough attention, while Infiniti gave its G35 sedan and coupe a ton of attention and look at the positive results for Infiniti. And as we know, there is no let down with the 2005 G35's. Add in cars from Acura, Mazda, Ford, Mercedes, etc., and this leads me to ask: What the hell is Lexus doing? I can think of two things. One, they extended their resources to the brink with the Scion projects. Two- and this just came to mind- they planned it to be that way all along. Could the current IS have been a baiter car for the new IS all along? That's what Ford did when they brought out that POS Mondeo just before they first brought out the last generation "rounded look" Taurus. That's what Ford did with the GT supercar just before they brought out the new Mustang that looks similar in many intricate ways. So the current IS was a "sacrificial lamb" because Toyota has the resources to sacrifice a car in the belief it would take the psychology of two generations of cars to kick the 3-series ***?
#62
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
So are you trying to say it's a different engine?
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Originally Posted by TyrellCorpNexus8
That IS and its engine options, combined with cars from Infiniti, Mercedes, Mazda, Audi, and Acura, is going to kick the new BMW 3-series' ***. Hopefully.
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Originally Posted by MazdaspeedFeras
think he's saying they are the same due to similar output. what is this FMIC you were talking about?
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#66
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
I don't know why you think Toyota could not predict a slide of sales for the IS. They haven't changed the car in 5-6 years, anyone with half a brain could predict this. I just don't feel it was at the top of their proirity list.
The reason I say that is because in 2003, at least in southern California, the IS really seemed to be taking off. The car was everywhere around here right alongside the BMW 3-series. It really seemed to be getting some traction and the feeling where I live was that the car would get to the next level in 2004. Which never happened. In fact the reverse happened. So this two-year dichotomy, in my mind, can not be same ol' same ol' status quo in Toyota's eyes. Even if Toyota never expected this generation's IS to be that hot, they certainly could not have expected the dip for 2004.
#67
Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Why on earth would you even group Mazda in with those other manufacturers? The 3 series will lead the market for years to come, it has earned its reputation and it's not going to get its *** kicked by anything. At least not as far as sales go.
It seems to me that the 3-series' impenetrability was first penetrated by the Infiniti G35 sedan and coupe. It's the same for sharks and other animals. I think just about every respectable car company (so that means American carmakers are not included) is going after the 3-series now in a tacit or explicit group effort to hunt down the 3-series. This is what Apple and Motorola and IBM did with the PowerPC alliance in response to Intel Pentium. This is what the European alliance is trying to do to the US. BMW is vulnerable now. And I hope they lose more market share. Not because I've always had something against BMW but because I have something against a car company with such incompetent decision-making so as to allow Chris Bangle to get away with it.
Last edited by TyrellCorpNexus8; 12-16-2004 at 11:25 AM.
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I like the looks of the IS300 personally. I think that Lexus really should have come out with a hotter version though. 215HP from a 3.0L 6 just isn't competitve in the market.
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Originally Posted by Chrisbert
I like the looks of the IS300 personally. I think that Lexus really should have come out with a hotter version though. 215HP from a 3.0L 6 just isn't competitve in the market.
#70
Originally Posted by Chrisbert
I like the looks of the IS300 personally. I think that Lexus really should have come out with a hotter version though. 215HP from a 3.0L 6 just isn't competitve in the market.
#71
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"That IS and its engine options, combined with cars from Infiniti, Mercedes, Mazda, Audi, and Acura, is going to kick the new BMW 3-series' ***. Hopefully."
Ike is right. Mazda is not a luxury car manufacturer like the ones you mentioned. Mazdaspeed's emphasis is on performance not luxury. And in luxury you can subtract Mazda and add Lexus, Lincoln and Cadillac.
Ike is right. Mazda is not a luxury car manufacturer like the ones you mentioned. Mazdaspeed's emphasis is on performance not luxury. And in luxury you can subtract Mazda and add Lexus, Lincoln and Cadillac.
Last edited by czr; 12-16-2004 at 11:15 AM.
#72
Originally Posted by czr
"That IS and its engine options, combined with cars from Infiniti, Mercedes, Mazda, Audi, and Acura, is going to kick the new BMW 3-series' ***. Hopefully."
Ike is right. Mazda is not a luxury car manufacturer like the ones you mentioned. Mazdaspeed's emphasis is on performance not luxury. And in luxury you can subtract Mazda and add Lexus, Lincoln and Cadillac.
Ike is right. Mazda is not a luxury car manufacturer like the ones you mentioned. Mazdaspeed's emphasis is on performance not luxury. And in luxury you can subtract Mazda and add Lexus, Lincoln and Cadillac.
On the one hand, you have a bunch of carmakers focused on affordable luxury better than ever before- Infiniti, Acura, Audi, Cadillac, Mercedes, Ford, Chrysler, etc. Next thing you know, the entire population is focused on affordable luxury.
Secondly, you have a bunch of carmakers focused on more and more affordable performance and power than ever before- Infiniti, Acura, Audi, Cadillac, Mercedes, Ford, Chrysler, MAZDA (MPS and Mazdaspeed), etc. Next thing you know, the entire population is focused on affordable performance and power.
The zeitgeist has been changing the last one or two years and Mazda is a part of this. And this had been almost exclusively BMW 3-series' personal domain for a while. I'm telling you, Mazda is a part of this gestalt.
Last edited by TyrellCorpNexus8; 12-16-2004 at 11:29 AM.
#73
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Originally Posted by TyrellCorpNexus8
Right, that's exactly consistent with my point. Why would Toyota do that? The 240 HP Accord has been out for a couple years already. And you can't just play around or between BMW 3-series numbers if you want to take a bite out of the king. Infiniti's G35 went beyond 3-series numbers. Toyota knows what it has to trump and could have if they wanted to but they didn't. So was the current IS just a baiter car for the new IS all along?