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iTrader: (1)

While I was at Laguna I heard rumors that they were as low as 350ish hp. They may have been very de-tuned in an effort to get a finish rather than a DNF in the last race of the year and Laguna was a four hour long race.

Senna

I hope the hell "next gen rotary engine" doesn't mean hydrogen.

bern

350hp is very unlikely... I would make an educated guess, if truly detuned for a race, at 425hp. On the 430-440hp comment, that might be close, but I expect that those #s are still very conservative for certain versions of the motor. Don't ask me how I know....

thanks to all who came out to SS, especially Sylvain and Dave!

-Bern

Tirminyl

Has anymore news slipped out about Mazda/BK program for next year?

rotarygod

Not that I know of.

AggieLuke

Not sure if this was previously discussed, but the LMP2 rules state that any sort of turbo motor can be no larger than 2.0 litres. I don't know much about the Miata engine, would it be a good starting point? I.E. does it have any sort of racing pedigree that the 2.3L does?

rotarygod

They could pretty easily run the DISI engine as a 2L engine. It's just the standard 2.3 L engine for the most part which is basically the standard 2L in the Mazda3, They could change the stroke from 3.7" down to 3.3". That takes it back to a 2L. Boost would have to make up for everything else as they could run somewhere around 21.5 psi or so but through a 43mm restictor. I'm not sure how they could get enough power out of that engine to be competitive.

As far as the rotary goes, even a 2 rotor Renesis at 21.5 psi could hit 500 hp. Not sure what the restrictor would do to that number though. Mazda calls the 2 rotor engine a 1.3L and the 3 rotor a 2L. I'm not sure what the ACO considers it though. If they considered it a 2L, Mazda could run 21.5 psi through a 3 rotor! That would be cool but I don't know what size the rules consider it.

Renesis_8

wow... 21.5psi in a 3 rotor.. how much hp is that? 800hp? but it wont happen =/ even racing bodies in japan does not use the 1.3L for 2-rotor. However, i am sure you know it already RG.

what boost and engine displacement are other cars running with turbo-4 in LMP2?
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rotarygod

Remember there's a restrictor plate that would seriously lower the total power output of a turbo engine. All they'd really need to do is pick up about 75 peak hp but gain tons of average.

LMP2 places a boost restriction at 36 psi on cars with more than 2 valves per cylinder. It's slightly higher if you have 2 valves. That's regardless of engine size although 2 Liters and a total of 6 cylinders is the max.

Senna

Why am I not surprised Mazda has put back their planned announcement of their plans for P2 in 2007.

Renesis_8

Give us the update Mazda....
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Senna

Why do I get the feeling Mazda doesn't know WTF they're doing in ALMS next year....

Senna

:d:

rotary crazy

Lol!

AggieLuke

Just for the sake of keeping this thing going, B-K Motorsports website (which has been under development since Sportsbook was demoted from primary sponsor) is also found at www.returntolemans.com. I did a domain check thingy from centralops.net and found this:

Created: January 23, 2004
Modified: October 10, 2006
Expires: January 23, 2007

I'm not sure if this site was always attached to BK or if that was the modification made Oct 10... Hopefully the Jan 23 expiration date doesn't mean anything though!

edit: Just as an FYI, BK's website has always been www.b-kmotorsports.com. Well, maybe not always, but at least for the last year or so...

rotarygod

I'm starting to wonder if the holdup with an announcement centers around the engine development. I'm pretty sure the Lola is built and that will be the chassis but the engine is still up in the air. They are probably still testing several different options to see what will work best for them. A few of the things they "could" be trying are:

1: Turbocharged 2 rotor Renesis
2: New further refined 3 rotor
3: Turbo 3 rotor (unlikely)
4: Turbo DISI 2.0L 4 cylinder piston engine

I didn't really get anything out of anyone at Sevenstock other than a hint that the rotary is Mazdas focus and future. It seems to imply that the race car will still run a rotary but who knows? They currently put out right around 450hp with the current restrictor. There is going to be a restrictor change for LMP2 to smaller ones for next year but I don't know what this will do to the rotary. They are also far more overweight than I had ever thought.

They are probably going to test the current engine in the new lighter better cooling chassis to see how competitive they are before they pursue any further options. With only 2 races to go in this last season, they completely redesigned the cooling system and had a custom water pump made. That doesn't seem to be something that would have been done if they engine wasn't going to continue. Especially since they were long out of the hunt for any top team or driver points for the season.

I suspect we won't hear anything for a couple of more months. They'll test over the winter and as we get closer to Sebring we'll hear more news. It would be nice for them to give us a hint though.

Renesis_8

I highly doubt they'll stick with the 3-rotors anymore, this time around, they'll need to bring a car out there that can compete with the Acuras, Porshces, etc. The penske porshce is pushing 580hp, probably more, at over 10,000rpm. the 3-rotor cannot put out those numbers in its naturally aspirated form no matter what they do to it. And turbo charging it is very unlikely as you said. I think we can narrow it down to a Turbocharged 2-rotor renesis or the turbo DISI 4 banger.

I guess that you left out the 4-rotor for a reason, so I wont include that.

Maybe, just maybe we'll still see the 3-rotor if the new rules mandate for a very very small restricted plate, to bring the horsepower down to around 500+hp for all the LMP2 cars.

Do you think a prototype car powered by a rotary engine would still have any handling advantage?

Also are they going to run two cars next season?

edit: its 480hp, not 580hp, sorry for the error
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Tirminyl

^^Don't forget that the car was severely overweight so a 3 rotor is still an option. They can utilize Speedsource in the building of it.

Renesis_8

yep, however, I am assuming all the LMP2 cars will be at minimum weight, so I think dont think that is a variable. Engine will be a major factor in determining how fast the cars are.
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rotarygod

Porsches new cars are supposed to do 520 hp under the current rules but with the new restrictor plates that should go down. The new goal for next year is to have all of the LMP2 cars at least 1.5% slower than the LMP1 cars so we won't see any more Porsches at the same speed or faster than most LMP1 cars. If this margin isn't maintained they will make adjustments throughout the season to make sure it does.

Renesis_8

That is good to hear, I saw that on mulsanne's corner too. I hope Mazda's new machine can at least keep up with the LMP2 pack, then they'll have a better chance at podium finishes with consistency, reliability of the rotary engine. The 3-rotor is capable of +/- 500hp, maybe that is why they redesigned the cooling? To help the 3-rotor run at a higher horsepower with the same reliability. However, there is the restrictor plate sizing which is still unknown.
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rotarygod

Since they already run the rotary with a larger restrictor plate than the piston engined cars, I'm wondering if they'll even make any changes to it. It's not like they are keeping up. If the piston engined cars can be held to 500 hp or lower and the rotary can maintain 450 or so, and if they can get the weight down, they may just be able to stay competitive. Hopefully the new chassis will allow them to use the variable intake manifold for more average power. Yes they'd have a power deficit but it wouldn't be as much. Porsche runs a 17:1 compression ratio and revs to 10,300 rpm. They are really stressing those things. They've also broken on several occasions. The Courage has had cooling issues in the past and that's really been it. It appears they have that figured out now.

I think we'll see the 3 rotor stay in the car for now. At least for a few races. They may change over mid season after more testing. I just think they need to give it a fair shot in the new car. I would presonally rather see a 2 rotor Renesis with a turbo and what would be even cooler is that at the power levels they'd need and the fuel they use, they could use a mostly stock one to get it! Obviously a few changes internally but for the most part it would be a street engine. That would be cool!

bern

from the latest grumblings I've heard, it's not looking good for a new RE powered LMP2. I'm going to speculate that we'll see a single car piston powered ALMS LMP2 effort from BK/Mazda next year, with all Rotary resources going to the SpeedSource boys in Grand-Am GT... but what do I know...


-Bern

Renesis_8

Lets all shoot the messenger shall we
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bern

Let's do it!!!! shoot him!!! wait is that me?!?! ha ha ha...