Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

They're actually making around 1400 horse now but there are rotary drag cars exceeding that even.

Paul.

rotary crazy

Rotor,how long does that engine last? one pass maybe 2

both engines are capable of the needed hp, the decicion is up to mazda and the PR potential of the race program

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

The drag racing Mazda 6 engine, which 'resembles' an L3 MZR unit is extremely strong. I would imagine they get more passes than that. It definitely makes more power than any 2 rotor in the world, much to my dismay.

Paul.

rotarygod

Strangely enough for it's rated displacement, it takes up 3 times as much space.

rotary crazy

I was being sarcastic

im sure they can make a 500 hp 4 banger as well as a renesis, but as I said before the decicision will come down to PR and spreating cost

bern

A point well made, but in the overall scheme of things, again the marketing and PR folks are not looking to reach out the educated race enthusiast, of which most rotary enthusiast are, but to the general non-educated public, on a very high and superficial level. If these folks see, or are told/sold, that a Mazda 4-cylinder turbo is winning, or at least running successfully, then they can be marketed to on the basis, and convinced quite easily, that this is the same exact engine combo in several Mazda vehicles (MazdaSpeed-3, MazdaSpeed-6, CX-7, CX-9, and maybe MS MX-5) and the same engine without-turbo, in most of the rest of the Mazda line-up.... and that vehicle line-up is a big chunk of marketing money to share from. On the rotary racing side of marketing budget aspect, there is currently one product in the line-up to take money from, and it's success, if any, would return very limited PR/marketing opportunities for the company, with what would be, I feel, a greater total investment in money and time to make the RE competitive vs. the Mazda 4-cylinder.

As I stated before though, now Mazda has the option of tapping into a huge pool of racing knowledge with the 4-cylinder, quite easily and cost effectively. There are MANY proven, developed, and packaged combos out there that they can derive engineering support from. Although, as you say, even if the rotary can be boosted to the needed HP levels, there is NO real knowledge base or engineering support that Mazda can easily tap into for such a BOOSTED Renesis Rotary in a sports racing application. This would mean much one-off development time, money, and resource that MNAO does not seem willing or even capable, to sacrifice, for what they percieve would be less return then the other program.

Yea, but apples-&-oranges... remember who did the LeMans program, and when... MC (Japan) and the FC was a huge hit worldwide, and the 3rd gen was upcoming. This led to a good marketing oppurtunity and budget pool...

In this case, remember, MNAO is the one supporting the ALMS program, and they do have much in-house engineering experience and development with boosted DISI/MZR engines... The same can definitely not be said for the RENESIS, for which MC (Japan) has done all development and engineering. And without MC on-board 100% with the ALMS program, there doesn't seem to be much choice for MNAO against the Porsches, Acuras, etc... Of course we can always hope that the rotorheads at the company (MNAO), which btw are influential, can pull a rabbit out of the hat!

Because it was a real nice easy and cheap solution for Mazda to score positive marketing points for the RX-8/RENESIS; and the first year it worked out fine. Also the RX-8 was still fairly fresh and in need of a positive push via racing. It was when the other teams came fully committed that the flaws in Mazda's plan became apparent. They had tough choices to make after the first or second season, to crap or get off the pot, but they felt that the historic RE reliability in racing would be enough to push them through in a postive fashion for a while longer... unfortunately even this situation didn't work out to well for them... as they say: money talks, and....

Yea, I already stated that lack of race development, budget, and even a long term committment to the RE racing in "ALMS", where the rules do not help or do the RE any favors, made it fall victim to corporate realities. So now that Mazda is gettting serious about ALMS, the RE fell short in the corporate investment-to-return game. It's unfortunate, but a reality none-the-less!

Because when you begin with something that is not a widely known quantity, RE in this case relative to the rest of the racing world, then you go to something (MZR) you do understand, and can reach out for assistance with much confidence that any issue you may have, already has an off-the-shelf remedy or fix (read: more cost effective and a better use of your resource). And remember Mazda although they were supporting BK with some budget and other ancillary support, there really was no support in the way of engineering for the RE from MNAO, which I as mentioned above, didn't have the budget resource or even full knowledge base to do so.

Maybe, but maybe not... because as explained above, the boosted 4-cylinder is a very well known quantity at MNAO engineering. So if the 4-cylinder becomes a reality, it will now also have a much larger marketing/PR program budget pool from which to dip into for ALMS race car program support and development. I still think it's a tough reality for Mazda to race against the mega-budgets and commitments of Porsche and Acura, but it would seem that if they go with 4-banger, they'll at least have a better chance of success, then with the improvised RE effort we've been seeing.


Without commitment from the entire Mazda corporation, RE racing is a tough sell in ALMS. If the program does indeed go 4-banger then at least, I feel, there will be a lot more relevance and commitment from not only the guys on top at MNAO, but engineering, to make it happen properly!

-Bern

rotarygod

I guess it's easy to see where the rotary focus has shifted to. Mazda's goal has been to win all 3 big 24 hour endurance races. The rotary is the natural candidate for that. They won Spa Francorchamps way back when. They won LeMans in '91 and that leaves Daytona. Look at the new Grand Am 3 rotor we saw at Sevenstock. That's a definite commitment to that program. That seems to be where the emphasis went and hopefully there's a good chance they can win it.

AggieLuke

Does Daytona seem a little less impressive these days to anyone else now that they're NASCRAPing it up? Don't get me wrong, I love the hell outta that GT RX8 (even if it is tubeframe) but Daytona seems kinda like the Indy500 since it's just IRL now...

And to bring this back to topic, I think Mazda should focus on my personal Big Three: Sebring, Le Mans, and Petit Le Mans.

With a rotary.

bern

a little fuel to the piston fire...

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...65#post1654265


-Bern

hogcar

Mazda has more class wins at Daytona than just about anyone. I hope you don't mean an overall win with the 3 rotor Gt class RX8. It ain't gona happen. They won Daytona first time out in 1979 with the RX7 in the GTU class. Racing beat has also won in the GTO class which is basically the same as todays GT. Under the current rules Mazda does not have an engine that can compete in the Daytona Prototype class. A four rotor would have a chance but is unlikely to ever be allowed.

bern

Agreed!!

The likely hood that any GT car wins the Daytona-24 overall now a days is very slim... The "Daytona" Prototype racers is where it's at with Grand-Am... and unless most of them fall out, a GT victory is very difficult.

I do know that there had been talks between Grand-Am, Mazda, and 3rd parties to allow a 4-rotor in DP class a while back, but they went no where, and that's where they're likely stay...

-Bern

AggieLuke

Just read on both the ALMS forums and SpeedTV that Dyson is supposedly going with two of the next-gen Porsche Spyder RSes in P2 next year. So whatever Mazda throws out there will have to deal with 4 Spyders, 3 Acuras, and a quick Radical and plucky Lola, which will possibly be running updated aero.

Good times!

As a side, P1 is now just Audi and Autocon running one (maybe two) very outdated cars.

Renesis_8

sorry, since this thread has so much speedsource content, i thought i'd post this here.

http://speedsourceinc.com/index.cfm?...173&section=ss

Its from the speedsource website, "Posted (12/06/2006) - 2 GT cars testing at Miami-Homestead Speedway, getting ready for 2007 Grand-Am Rolex season"



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Tirminyl

Damn, that looks good!

rotary crazy

I just wet myself !!!!!!!!!!!!

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

pervs...

Renesis_8

Its too good, with 2 speedsource 3-rotors, i will be satisfied watching just GrandAm GT. They're going all out in the 07 season, we could even see some 1-2 podium finishes!!
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shaunv74

Here's the press release dated 12/8...20b. As stated earlier in the thread it's too bad they aren't doing a turbo Renisis.

http://speedsourceinc.com/index.cfm?...s&news_id=2606

Renesis_8

We are a month away (Jan27) from hearing the "6 rotors" roar.
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rotarygod

Speedsource had one of the 3 rotor cars out at Sevenstock and even did a presentation at the banquet about what went into that project. They are impressive. I've got some great shots of the enbine bay.

shaunv74

Anyone have the TV coverage schedule?

AggieLuke

Hey RG,

Did you ever post the these pics of the engine bay? You've mentioned them a couple times now...

Renesis_8

He did in the SS7 section
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AggieLuke

thanks! I'll go take a peek. And also thanks to everyone for not screaming "SEARCH" as soon as I asked it!

:D

rotarygod

Actually I may have to repost them. I didn't put those pics up in the Sevenstock thread. I did load a couple into another thread but admittedly they were irrelevant to the thread topic and another admin deleted them! Damn it! I'll load them up here when I get to my other computer. That's where they are stored.