Looking at the '08 Sky Redline
09-05-2007, 01:54 PM
#26
i pwn therefore i am
I totally disagree with you saturn. Going with the restaurant analogy, if a server at a restaurant can't answer a question like what is the base of the soup (shellfish/beef/vegetable/other) or does the seasoning have msg, or is peanut oil used then the customer should leave. If the server lies, then the customer may become ill.
When I bought my '8 the saleswoman told me about the flooding problem, she said always let the car warm up before shutting it off. This was excellent advice from a well informed salesperson. If I followed saturn's thinking, I would've stuck with the first salesman, who told me the automatic was faster because the transmission was computer controlled, even though I knew he was wrong. I also would have ended up flooding my car and thinking the '8 had major problems, I bought mine in Oct. '03 so little info was available then.
Shaunv74 has got it right, imo. We've all worked with idiots, if we all demand better performance, we'll get it. If we are fine with idiots, then why hire educated, seasoned professionals, just hire the drooling idiot at minimum wage. Remember that when your car is being serviced.
Cheers,
Alex C.
When I bought my '8 the saleswoman told me about the flooding problem, she said always let the car warm up before shutting it off. This was excellent advice from a well informed salesperson. If I followed saturn's thinking, I would've stuck with the first salesman, who told me the automatic was faster because the transmission was computer controlled, even though I knew he was wrong. I also would have ended up flooding my car and thinking the '8 had major problems, I bought mine in Oct. '03 so little info was available then.
Shaunv74 has got it right, imo. We've all worked with idiots, if we all demand better performance, we'll get it. If we are fine with idiots, then why hire educated, seasoned professionals, just hire the drooling idiot at minimum wage. Remember that when your car is being serviced.
Cheers,
Alex C.
I guarantee you that there was more info on this site alone about the RX-8 in Oct '03 than all the salesman's cumulative knowledge throughout the world. It's great when the salesman can do your research for you, but you shouldn't need it.
Getting your car serviced is completely different than purchasing it. If the service manager doesn't have good people skills then I don't go there because I've found it's symptomatic of poor technical service in general.
09-05-2007, 01:57 PM
#27
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I'm fine with salesman knowing just a little about what he's selling. As long as he knows the basic information, knows where to find detailed information, and not giving people wrong information. If he doesn't know the detail on whatever he's selling, fine, maybe it's just not something he's interested in. But at least know where the customer can find more information (manuals or whatever) if they want to know. I can not stand people passing out wrong information. That just shows how little you care about the customer and the product you're selling.
Using the same example above. If the waiter tells you he doesn't know the detail about the food you're ordering, it's usually fine. But if he goes to the kitchen and get some details, you sure will be happy to give him extra tip just for the effort. What if he tells you the wrong ingredients? Worse, what if you're allergic to that type of the food?
Using the same example above. If the waiter tells you he doesn't know the detail about the food you're ordering, it's usually fine. But if he goes to the kitchen and get some details, you sure will be happy to give him extra tip just for the effort. What if he tells you the wrong ingredients? Worse, what if you're allergic to that type of the food?
09-05-2007, 02:04 PM
#28
i pwn therefore i am
Nope, you're wrong. Ego has nothing to do with this subject. And wanting someone to act "accordingly" within their profession is anything but outrageous.
I can go purchase a car at numerous dealerships. If I don't like how the salesman is behaving - like for example swiftnet's reasons - than that's my decision. And considering most consumers probably only purchase a car every few years, if that, then you get to make that certain potential sale infrequently.
So the salesman chose to treat swiftnet one way. And he chose to react by giving his money/his commission to a salesman that did his job and earned it. The salesman "needs" commission. He "needs" to meet quotas to keep his job. Swiftnet, like any other consumer, needs neither. But he can go down the street and purchase from the competition instead.
The guy is a saleman, not a porter. The salesman's success is tied to how well he can relate to the customer.
I can go purchase a car at numerous dealerships. If I don't like how the salesman is behaving - like for example swiftnet's reasons - than that's my decision. And considering most consumers probably only purchase a car every few years, if that, then you get to make that certain potential sale infrequently.
So the salesman chose to treat swiftnet one way. And he chose to react by giving his money/his commission to a salesman that did his job and earned it. The salesman "needs" commission. He "needs" to meet quotas to keep his job. Swiftnet, like any other consumer, needs neither. But he can go down the street and purchase from the competition instead.
The guy is a saleman, not a porter. The salesman's success is tied to how well he can relate to the customer.
If you somehow think you'll make out better by purchasing from a knowledgeable person, then great. I personally don't think that is the case. I shop around to find the best price from the dealership that will give me acceptable service. If your opinion of what "acceptable service" is more stringent then mine then you will by definition have less places to choose from. Therefore, I will have more places to choose from and will, in general, get a better price.
Again, if you somehow think you'll make out better by purchasing from a knowledgeable person, then go for it. I still think there's ego involved because of your (and many, many others) focus on how you have the power. If I don't get service I like I walk out -- no hard feelings. If you get all pissy about it and make a thread on a website then your ego is involved too much. I'm sorry if you disagree.
09-05-2007, 02:30 PM
#29
i pwn therefore i am
I'm fine with salesman knowing just a little about what he's selling. As long as he knows the basic information, knows where to find detailed information, and not giving people wrong information. If he doesn't know the detail on whatever he's selling, fine, maybe it's just not something he's interested in. But at least know where the customer can find more information (manuals or whatever) if they want to know. I can not stand people passing out wrong information. That just shows how little you care about the customer and the product you're selling.
Using the same example above. If the waiter tells you he doesn't know the detail about the food you're ordering, it's usually fine. But if he goes to the kitchen and get some details, you sure will be happy to give him extra tip just for the effort. What if he tells you the wrong ingredients? Worse, what if you're allergic to that type of the food?
Using the same example above. If the waiter tells you he doesn't know the detail about the food you're ordering, it's usually fine. But if he goes to the kitchen and get some details, you sure will be happy to give him extra tip just for the effort. What if he tells you the wrong ingredients? Worse, what if you're allergic to that type of the food?
09-05-2007, 02:33 PM
#30
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If you somehow think you'll make out better by purchasing from a knowledgeable person, then great. I personally don't think that is the case. I shop around to find the best price from the dealership that will give me acceptable service. If your opinion of what "acceptable service" is more stringent then mine then you will by definition have less places to choose from. Therefore, I will have more places to choose from and will, in general, get a better price.
Again, if you somehow think you'll make out better by purchasing from a knowledgeable person, then go for it. I still think there's ego involved because of your (and many, many others) focus on how you have the power. If I don't get service I like I walk out -- no hard feelings. If you get all pissy about it and make a thread on a website then your ego is involved too much. I'm sorry if you disagree.
Again, if you somehow think you'll make out better by purchasing from a knowledgeable person, then go for it. I still think there's ego involved because of your (and many, many others) focus on how you have the power. If I don't get service I like I walk out -- no hard feelings. If you get all pissy about it and make a thread on a website then your ego is involved too much. I'm sorry if you disagree.
I'm talking purely about rewarding the individual - in this case a salesman - that performs his job better. I think that's the core argument many of us are making.
If I get bad service, I walk out also. So does everyone else, so what's your point?
As for this:
Getting your car serviced is completely different than purchasing it. If the service manager doesn't have good people skills then I don't go there because I've found it's symptomatic of poor technical service in general.
In other words, you reward the better service manager with your business because he caters to the customer. But that doesn't matter for the salesman, another public service oriented profession???
You can argue both sides, and pick and choose as you like. But that doesn't mean I, or anyone else debating with you won't see the flawed logic.
09-05-2007, 02:41 PM
#31
Now back on topic...
When I shopped for my dads new car, I went to 4 or 5 dealerships. We bought the car from, arguably, the dumbest salesman of them all. Why? because I negotiated the cheapest price with him. I already knew all the specs and options on the car, I didn't need to hear it from a car salesman. We now take the car to a different dealer closer to home for service and are a couple grand richer.
If you, or anyone, want a talking version of the car brochure as your salesman, then by all means, go find one. Personally, I couldn't care less about it. I walk into a dealership armed with all the information I need, I sit down and discuss a price. If they give me the lowest price, they get my cheque.
I guess it depends on how you define a better job. If it's by memorizing a brochure, or in my case, giving me the best price.
09-05-2007, 03:42 PM
#32
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It's all an expectations game. Some expect a lot more than others, ultimately to be disappointed by a lot of things around them.
I have to say, dumb car salesman/I've got lots of cars and motorcycles/I'm educated, young looking and environmentally conscious/I know a lot about cars/I've got a cool wife, isn't a particularly good thread, but I did enjoy the debate.
Laterz.
I have to say, dumb car salesman/I've got lots of cars and motorcycles/I'm educated, young looking and environmentally conscious/I know a lot about cars/I've got a cool wife, isn't a particularly good thread, but I did enjoy the debate.
Laterz.
09-05-2007, 10:05 PM
#33
What am I doing here?
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Why are you expecting good service from people that only want as much of your money with as little effort as possible?
Just decide whether or not you like the product and buy it. Interact with the salespeople as little as possible as they are there primarily to misdirect you and keep you off-guard.
Just decide whether or not you like the product and buy it. Interact with the salespeople as little as possible as they are there primarily to misdirect you and keep you off-guard.
09-05-2007, 11:45 PM
#34
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Took a silver corvette out today, convertible, auto - nice. Torque rocks.
The salesman was knowledgeable, personable and seemingly honest. He told me his 06 'vette gets about 22mpg mixed driving, aggressive driving down into the mid teens. I can believe these numbers. If I can convince my significant other that lower mpg and higher price is what we are going for, then I may be driving a silver 'vette convertible this month.
I was in a T-shirt "I'm mean because your stupid", jeans and sneakers. Bill (the salesman) asked where I'm from, what do I do, what is the timeline for purchase, etc. This is a proper salesman, and I'll happily give him the sale even if his price is slightly higher than an idiot down the street who doesn't know whether he should chance letting me drive the car.
I appreciate all the comments and opinions. Some people don't care about the relationship, just the price. I'm not one of them, but that is what makes things interesting, the differences.
oh to the people who think I started this thread to brag - My car is faster than yours, my bike is faster than yours, I'm a better driver, I'm a better rider, I'm stronger than you, I'm smarter than you, I'm prettier than you, I eat better vegeburgers than you, I'm taller than you, I'm nicer than you, my computer is better than yours, my supermarket is closer, walmart is farther away, my favorite gas station is better, my garbage is cleaner and I'm great.... in case you wanted to know - for all the stupid people, I'm joking...
Cheers,
Alex C.
The salesman was knowledgeable, personable and seemingly honest. He told me his 06 'vette gets about 22mpg mixed driving, aggressive driving down into the mid teens. I can believe these numbers. If I can convince my significant other that lower mpg and higher price is what we are going for, then I may be driving a silver 'vette convertible this month.
I was in a T-shirt "I'm mean because your stupid", jeans and sneakers. Bill (the salesman) asked where I'm from, what do I do, what is the timeline for purchase, etc. This is a proper salesman, and I'll happily give him the sale even if his price is slightly higher than an idiot down the street who doesn't know whether he should chance letting me drive the car.
I appreciate all the comments and opinions. Some people don't care about the relationship, just the price. I'm not one of them, but that is what makes things interesting, the differences.
oh to the people who think I started this thread to brag - My car is faster than yours, my bike is faster than yours, I'm a better driver, I'm a better rider, I'm stronger than you, I'm smarter than you, I'm prettier than you, I eat better vegeburgers than you, I'm taller than you, I'm nicer than you, my computer is better than yours, my supermarket is closer, walmart is farther away, my favorite gas station is better, my garbage is cleaner and I'm great.... in case you wanted to know - for all the stupid people, I'm joking...
Cheers,
Alex C.
09-06-2007, 12:04 AM
#35
Destroying Threads
vegeburgur better than me?!?!? no way!!!!
haha cool man, I almost bought a corvette.......03 with 55k miles for 28000
was silver also, with the 50th year package thinging
ended up not buying it because my dad didn't want the hassle, its a good car
beware of maintainance costs after the warranty runs out though, I'm not trying to poke holes in it, but trust me, if the little things bothers you, you won't like the corvette, garunteed
haha cool man, I almost bought a corvette.......03 with 55k miles for 28000
was silver also, with the 50th year package thinging
ended up not buying it because my dad didn't want the hassle, its a good car
beware of maintainance costs after the warranty runs out though, I'm not trying to poke holes in it, but trust me, if the little things bothers you, you won't like the corvette, garunteed
09-06-2007, 12:07 AM
#36
Blue By You
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09-06-2007, 01:43 PM
#37
The "other RX8" owner
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I like my 2 Saturns and have had nothing but good things to say about the dealership in Greenwood/Indianapolis, IN. Sounds like you just got a horrible dealership(s). With my immediate family owning 6 Saturns currently, it says a lot. Now when we were shopping it was the Chevrolet dealership that pissed us off.
09-06-2007, 02:40 PM
#38
i pwn therefore i am
Why do you re-iterate that? Where did I state I'd make out better by going to the more "knowledgeable person"?
I'm talking purely about rewarding the individual - in this case a salesman - that performs his job better. I think that's the core argument many of us are making.
If I get bad service, I walk out also. So does everyone else, so what's your point?
As for this:
Getting your car serviced is completely different than purchasing it. If the service manager doesn't have good people skills then I don't go there because I've found it's symptomatic of poor technical service in general.
In other words, you reward the better service manager with your business because he caters to the customer. But that doesn't matter for the salesman, another public service oriented profession???
You can argue both sides, and pick and choose as you like. But that doesn't mean I, or anyone else debating with you won't see the flawed logic.
I'm talking purely about rewarding the individual - in this case a salesman - that performs his job better. I think that's the core argument many of us are making.
If I get bad service, I walk out also. So does everyone else, so what's your point?
As for this:
Getting your car serviced is completely different than purchasing it. If the service manager doesn't have good people skills then I don't go there because I've found it's symptomatic of poor technical service in general.
In other words, you reward the better service manager with your business because he caters to the customer. But that doesn't matter for the salesman, another public service oriented profession???
You can argue both sides, and pick and choose as you like. But that doesn't mean I, or anyone else debating with you won't see the flawed logic.
My entire point is that you are choosing to "reward" salesman you deem "competent". I think that's a stupid decision as it could hurt you financially.
I'm not arguing both sides -- I'm being pragmatic. Poor salesmanship doesn't affect me in any way shape or form. All that matters is the price. However, when I'm getting my car serviced, poor customer service is a sign that they're going to have no attention to detail and screw up my car. Put simply, price isn't the only issue when dealing with the service department.
BlueEyes hit it right on the head. Just refer to his post and we can stop talking about this. At least when all is said and done swiftnet admitted that he cares about the "relationship" as well as the price, but gets that we don't all think that way. That's good enough for me.
09-07-2007, 05:10 PM
#41
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I drove a Miata Speed and Solstice before buying my 8. Miata was great and I would have bought it but at 6 '3, it was just too uncomfortable. The Solstice is nice but poorly designed. No storage inside the car and no trunk space. The base engine is weak, making the only real choice the GXP version.
09-15-2007, 05:11 PM
#44
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I'm sorry you had a bad sales experience with the Saturn. We bought a minivan this spring, and a few of the different salesmen (and sales women) we spoke with slipped a few lies into their pitch. It was very frustrating. We ended up buying a Honda Odyssey from one of the only people that we never caught in a lie.
Check out the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) certified dyno for the LS3 engine:
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...ombination.pdf
The engine is producing around 290 pound feet of torque and 45 horsepower off idle.
The Corvette can just loaf along at low RPMs in fifth or sixth gear when a lot of weaker cars would be spinning their smaller engines at high RPM in third or fourth. That's how it does so well on fuel.
We have a Honda CRV (2.4 liter 4-cylinder) and we had a Chevy Impala (3.4 liter pushrod V6). On long trips, the CRV gets 27 mpg on the highway. The Chevy used to get 31. The CRV's 4-banger runs around 2000 RPM at 60 mph. The Chevy's bigger engine ran at 1500. (The Impala had to be one of the worst handling cars I've had the privilege to drive, lots of road noise, and the engine sounded awful at high RPM. But for an ancient pushrod design, it was surprisingly good on gas. The worst fuel economy I ever got in 134,000 miles of driving was 23 mpg.)
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...ombination.pdf
The engine is producing around 290 pound feet of torque and 45 horsepower off idle.
The Corvette can just loaf along at low RPMs in fifth or sixth gear when a lot of weaker cars would be spinning their smaller engines at high RPM in third or fourth. That's how it does so well on fuel.
We have a Honda CRV (2.4 liter 4-cylinder) and we had a Chevy Impala (3.4 liter pushrod V6). On long trips, the CRV gets 27 mpg on the highway. The Chevy used to get 31. The CRV's 4-banger runs around 2000 RPM at 60 mph. The Chevy's bigger engine ran at 1500. (The Impala had to be one of the worst handling cars I've had the privilege to drive, lots of road noise, and the engine sounded awful at high RPM. But for an ancient pushrod design, it was surprisingly good on gas. The worst fuel economy I ever got in 134,000 miles of driving was 23 mpg.)
Last edited by FamilyGuy; 09-15-2007 at 05:14 PM.
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