Looks like Toyota is even MORE SCREWED NOW
04-08-2010, 12:52 AM
#3
tonybob failpants
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if idiots that don't know how to use neutral and a brake pedal keep crashing into things like ******* morons, then i think toyota will commit seppuku. but this story doesn't seem like it'll get too much attention.
04-08-2010, 01:24 AM
#4
Works for me - just double checked it.
Here's the print in case you can't open it:
The Associated Press April 7, 2010, 7:26PM ET
Toyota official: 'We need to come clean'
By LARRY MARGASAK and KEN THOMAS
Story Tools
WASHINGTON
Five days before Toyota announced a massive recall, a U.S. public relations executive at the automaker warned colleagues in an internal e-mail: "We need to come clean" about accelerator problems, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday.
"We are not protecting our customers by keeping this quiet," wrote Irv Miller, group vice president for environment and public affairs. "The time to hide on this one is over."
The recently retired Miller wrote the e-mail on Jan. 16, 2010, as Toyota officials were on their way to Washington to discuss the problems with federal regulators. On Jan. 21, Toyota announced it would recall 2.3 million vehicles to address sticking pedals in six vehicle models.
The e-mail reveals deep concerns within the company's leadership that Toyota wasn't dealing with the safety problems effectively and could damage the automaker's sterling reputation for producing safe and reliable vehicles. The company already had announced a recall of more than 4 million vehicles in late September 2009 to replace gas pedals that could get stuck in floor mats and cause sudden acceleration.
"We better just hope that they can get NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) to work with us in coming (up) with a workable solution that does not put us out of business," Miller wrote.
The e-mail was addressed to Katsuhiko Koganei, executive coordinator for corporate communications for Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc.
"I hate to break this to you but WE HAVE A tendency for MECHANICAL failure in accelerator pedals of a certain manufacturer on certain models," Miller's e-mail began with several words in capital letters.
In a memo earlier that day, Koganei wrote Mike Michels, vice president of external communications, "Now I talked with you on the phone, we should not mention about the mechanical failures of acc. pedal because we have not clarified the real cause of the sticking acc pedal formally, and the remedy for the matter has not been confirmed."
Koganei further wrote that Toyota executives were concerned that news of the mechanical failures "might raise another uneasiness of customers."
The subject line said the e-mail was in regard to a draft statement to respond to an ABC News story.
A Toyota official did not immediately respond to a request for comment Wednesday on the e-mails. Miller, reached by phone at his home in Los Angeles, said he had no comment. His retirement was announced by Toyota on Dec. 16 and his retirement was effective Feb. 1.
The Transportation Department has assessed a record $16.4 million fine on Toyota for failing to alert the U.S. government to the safety problems about the sticking accelerator pedals quickly enough. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Tuesday that Toyota made a "huge mistake" by not disclosing the safety problems sooner.
Concerns about sticking gas pedals and complaints from Toyota owners in the U.S. were rising at the end of 2009, according to documents obtained by the AP. The documents show that on Sept. 29, Toyota's European division issued technical information "identifying a production improvement and repair procedure to address complaints by customers in those countries of sticking accelerator pedals, sudden rpm increase and/or sudden vehicle acceleration."
Distributors throughout Europe and in Russia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Turkey and Israel received the technical information.
In mid-January, Toyota held internal meetings "to discuss status of production changes and to prepare for meetings with NHTSA" on Jan. 19, according to the timeline. Two days later, Toyota announced it would recall 2.3 million vehicles to address the sticking pedals.
The documents obtained by the AP were among 70,000 pages of papers turned over to government investigators.
Toyota has recalled more than 6 million vehicles in the U.S. and a total of more than 8 million worldwide because of acceleration problems in multiple models and braking issues in the Prius hybrid.
The Japanese automaker was still weighing its options Wednesday about whether to accept or contest the fine. It has also been named in 138 potential class-action lawsuits over falling vehicle values and nearly 100 personal injury and wrongful death cases in federal courts.
Here's the print in case you can't open it:
The Associated Press April 7, 2010, 7:26PM ET
Toyota official: 'We need to come clean'
By LARRY MARGASAK and KEN THOMAS
Story Tools
WASHINGTON
Five days before Toyota announced a massive recall, a U.S. public relations executive at the automaker warned colleagues in an internal e-mail: "We need to come clean" about accelerator problems, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday.
"We are not protecting our customers by keeping this quiet," wrote Irv Miller, group vice president for environment and public affairs. "The time to hide on this one is over."
The recently retired Miller wrote the e-mail on Jan. 16, 2010, as Toyota officials were on their way to Washington to discuss the problems with federal regulators. On Jan. 21, Toyota announced it would recall 2.3 million vehicles to address sticking pedals in six vehicle models.
The e-mail reveals deep concerns within the company's leadership that Toyota wasn't dealing with the safety problems effectively and could damage the automaker's sterling reputation for producing safe and reliable vehicles. The company already had announced a recall of more than 4 million vehicles in late September 2009 to replace gas pedals that could get stuck in floor mats and cause sudden acceleration.
"We better just hope that they can get NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) to work with us in coming (up) with a workable solution that does not put us out of business," Miller wrote.
The e-mail was addressed to Katsuhiko Koganei, executive coordinator for corporate communications for Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc.
"I hate to break this to you but WE HAVE A tendency for MECHANICAL failure in accelerator pedals of a certain manufacturer on certain models," Miller's e-mail began with several words in capital letters.
In a memo earlier that day, Koganei wrote Mike Michels, vice president of external communications, "Now I talked with you on the phone, we should not mention about the mechanical failures of acc. pedal because we have not clarified the real cause of the sticking acc pedal formally, and the remedy for the matter has not been confirmed."
Koganei further wrote that Toyota executives were concerned that news of the mechanical failures "might raise another uneasiness of customers."
The subject line said the e-mail was in regard to a draft statement to respond to an ABC News story.
A Toyota official did not immediately respond to a request for comment Wednesday on the e-mails. Miller, reached by phone at his home in Los Angeles, said he had no comment. His retirement was announced by Toyota on Dec. 16 and his retirement was effective Feb. 1.
The Transportation Department has assessed a record $16.4 million fine on Toyota for failing to alert the U.S. government to the safety problems about the sticking accelerator pedals quickly enough. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Tuesday that Toyota made a "huge mistake" by not disclosing the safety problems sooner.
Concerns about sticking gas pedals and complaints from Toyota owners in the U.S. were rising at the end of 2009, according to documents obtained by the AP. The documents show that on Sept. 29, Toyota's European division issued technical information "identifying a production improvement and repair procedure to address complaints by customers in those countries of sticking accelerator pedals, sudden rpm increase and/or sudden vehicle acceleration."
Distributors throughout Europe and in Russia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Turkey and Israel received the technical information.
In mid-January, Toyota held internal meetings "to discuss status of production changes and to prepare for meetings with NHTSA" on Jan. 19, according to the timeline. Two days later, Toyota announced it would recall 2.3 million vehicles to address the sticking pedals.
The documents obtained by the AP were among 70,000 pages of papers turned over to government investigators.
Toyota has recalled more than 6 million vehicles in the U.S. and a total of more than 8 million worldwide because of acceleration problems in multiple models and braking issues in the Prius hybrid.
The Japanese automaker was still weighing its options Wednesday about whether to accept or contest the fine. It has also been named in 138 potential class-action lawsuits over falling vehicle values and nearly 100 personal injury and wrongful death cases in federal courts.
04-08-2010, 07:54 AM
#6
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there has been no proof that any ones accelerator ever stuck in any on of their vehicles. the only thing that Toyota did by recalling their cars was show to the public that they are serious about customer impressions. the DOT and Toyota have tested hundreds of Prius' and even the exact same one from that guy in California that claimed to be in an out of control situation for like 10 minutes on the freeway. never reproduced or had any findings from testing through internal or DOT testing that there was a problem and even showed that the driver rode the brakes "lightly" for miles to show wear and was never heavy on the brakes like he should have been in an emergency situation.
there is no way that any vehicle outside of possibly a v-12 Ferrari or a Bugatti could out power it's braking system with modern power brakes. NO WAY. automatic of manual, go outside and put your car int first gear accelerate and slam on the brakes but keep your foot on the throttle, guess what happens......you ******* stop. people are so stupid they will believe anything that some guy at a coffee shop who built his own car once and only trusts real cable throttle systems because the car can run out on it's own will tell them.
i am so tired of this crap. Toyota makes amazingly reliable cars and trucks. i had a Tacoma, my father, before he died had a Tacoma and my sister and her husband kept it even though her husband has a Tacoma also. thats 3 in 1 family at the same time while my sister has a 4runner and my other sister had a Camry, aside from oil changes, not one thing had to be done to any of them for maintenance, not even brakes until well after they were all payed off. i have had my 8 for less than a year and i can't say that about it or any other Mazda i have had but i still love Mazda. I would buy another Toyota in a heart beat as well as another Mazda.
it's amazing that there have been no recalls outside of North America, all of the parts are created in the same factory, all of the vehicles are built side by side but yet the only recalls are in the us and canada????? because this country's media is in charge and it's pathetic.
there is no way that any vehicle outside of possibly a v-12 Ferrari or a Bugatti could out power it's braking system with modern power brakes. NO WAY. automatic of manual, go outside and put your car int first gear accelerate and slam on the brakes but keep your foot on the throttle, guess what happens......you ******* stop. people are so stupid they will believe anything that some guy at a coffee shop who built his own car once and only trusts real cable throttle systems because the car can run out on it's own will tell them.
i am so tired of this crap. Toyota makes amazingly reliable cars and trucks. i had a Tacoma, my father, before he died had a Tacoma and my sister and her husband kept it even though her husband has a Tacoma also. thats 3 in 1 family at the same time while my sister has a 4runner and my other sister had a Camry, aside from oil changes, not one thing had to be done to any of them for maintenance, not even brakes until well after they were all payed off. i have had my 8 for less than a year and i can't say that about it or any other Mazda i have had but i still love Mazda. I would buy another Toyota in a heart beat as well as another Mazda.
it's amazing that there have been no recalls outside of North America, all of the parts are created in the same factory, all of the vehicles are built side by side but yet the only recalls are in the us and canada????? because this country's media is in charge and it's pathetic.
04-08-2010, 08:17 AM
#7
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there has been no proof that any ones accelerator ever stuck in any on of their vehicles. the only thing that Toyota did by recalling their cars was show to the public that they are serious about customer impressions. the DOT and Toyota have tested hundreds of Prius' and even the exact same one from that guy in California that claimed to be in an out of control situation for like 10 minutes on the freeway. never reproduced or had any findings from testing through internal or DOT testing that there was a problem and even showed that the driver rode the brakes "lightly" for miles to show wear and was never heavy on the brakes like he should have been in an emergency situation.
i am so tired of this crap. Toyota makes amazingly reliable cars and trucks. i had a Tacoma, my father, before he died had a Tacoma and my sister and her husband kept it even though her husband has a Tacoma also. thats 3 in 1 family at the same time while my sister has a 4runner and my other sister had a Camry, aside from oil changes, not one thing had to be done to any of them for maintenance, not even brakes until well after they were all payed off. i have had my 8 for less than a year and i can't say that about it or any other Mazda i have had but i still love Mazda. I would buy another Toyota in a heart beat as well as another Mazda.
And for manufacture records, I had 2 corollas, 1 the engine blew (unexpected, bought new, blew at ~61k), 1 didn't (bought used at 49k, traded in at 119k). I have had 2 Mazdas. 1 the engine blew (expected, my 8, at 56k, bought at 8.6k), 1 didn't (Protege5, bought at 45k, sold at 96k). So they are still equal in my books.
Great cars those Toyotas, just hope you don't get a exceedingly rare crappy roll of the dice and have to deal with them ever again.100% agree.
04-08-2010, 09:08 AM
#8
Registered
Even the worst cars today rival the average car of 20 years ago in reliability. Every Ford we had from 1979-1996 seemed to fall apart after about 80K miles. Our '83 Ranger needed a new engine at 86K miles. Our '79 LTD (remember those huge tanks!) was on it's third engine at 120K miles. Our '96 Tempo needed a new engine at '85K miles. Today Ford actually builds a decent car. I look at GM quality through those same years. Even Mazda was in the same boat. Anyone buying an old 2nd gen RX-7 needs to be aware of certain issues such as certain in terior pieces that fall apart and other potentially serious problems such as pulsation dampener related issues that may cause engine fires.
My 2000 Civic had a hard life and due to a mistake on my part needed a new engine at 183K miles. The rest of the car was just fine. My wife's 2006 Camry is over 110K miles and has been extremely reliable. Her driving ability hasn't always been though. Change the fluids, fill up the tank and that car just keeps going. Runs great. This is true of most cars today. Even the cheap ones.
The media has really fallen to the point of being tragedy reporters. They want suffering. They will report every little issue over and over again and then build on it. I'm sick of hearing about Toyota recalls over and over again mostly because the media isn't being fair about it. At any point in time, some car maker somewhere has a recall for some issue. Why doesn't the media report about those? It's quite simply because a small story doesn't mean anything. When you can link things together, it can seem more impressive than it really is and reporting is all about putting out a product. In this case a story. The bigger the better and if they can make a big story out of nothing, they are happy.
I'm sick about stories of Toyota, of Tiger Woods, about Natalie Holloway, etc... Report what matters.
My 2000 Civic had a hard life and due to a mistake on my part needed a new engine at 183K miles. The rest of the car was just fine. My wife's 2006 Camry is over 110K miles and has been extremely reliable. Her driving ability hasn't always been though. Change the fluids, fill up the tank and that car just keeps going. Runs great. This is true of most cars today. Even the cheap ones.
The media has really fallen to the point of being tragedy reporters. They want suffering. They will report every little issue over and over again and then build on it. I'm sick of hearing about Toyota recalls over and over again mostly because the media isn't being fair about it. At any point in time, some car maker somewhere has a recall for some issue. Why doesn't the media report about those? It's quite simply because a small story doesn't mean anything. When you can link things together, it can seem more impressive than it really is and reporting is all about putting out a product. In this case a story. The bigger the better and if they can make a big story out of nothing, they are happy.
I'm sick about stories of Toyota, of Tiger Woods, about Natalie Holloway, etc... Report what matters.
04-08-2010, 10:31 AM
#11
I am getting sick and tired of all of this Toyota crap. It's ol news, you're not going to get any more action out of it unless a car explodes.
Toyota is at least handling this situation. They've admitted to their faults and they're DOING something, actively, about it. Have people died? yes. People die in ANY car, every day because of accidents and poor decisions, as well as mechanical failure. This is like the U.S. government trying to sue alcohol providers because drunk drivers are killing people with cars. I keep hearing these stories about how people "try" to slam on the brakes and change gears, yet it does nothing. If you change gears to reverse and neutral while in motion, the car should be able to recognize the change, either that or your gear box will be laying on the road about 1/2 a mile back, in pieces.
I own an 06 corolla, and I have yet to have a serious issue with the car. I have abused that poor car so much, pressing it's engine far too hard and taking turns faster than I should, and I have yet to have an issue *knocks on wood* My brother and sister in law still have their prius, and are (dorkily) proud to drive it, despite all of this news about recent recalls and problems. With any car, you're going to have problems, and yes, the executive public relations officer sent out an email about coming clean about this problem, but it's true what the higher ups said: they have to discover what is causing the problem before telling the world that there's a problem.
That's like saying "Russia is shooting nukes, but we don't know where their targeted locations are." You need to know the whole story before sending out news like that, or else it'll create mass panic and make the situation worse than it actually is.
I feel people just see one person making this complaint, see it in the news, and are finding it to be an easy scam to get more and more money out of a reliable and dependable company that's willing to pay the money out for grievances and customer support, because they're doing what's right. Either that or they want their "pity me, pity me" 15 minutes of unnecessary fame.
sephy rant over lol
Toyota is at least handling this situation. They've admitted to their faults and they're DOING something, actively, about it. Have people died? yes. People die in ANY car, every day because of accidents and poor decisions, as well as mechanical failure. This is like the U.S. government trying to sue alcohol providers because drunk drivers are killing people with cars. I keep hearing these stories about how people "try" to slam on the brakes and change gears, yet it does nothing. If you change gears to reverse and neutral while in motion, the car should be able to recognize the change, either that or your gear box will be laying on the road about 1/2 a mile back, in pieces.
I own an 06 corolla, and I have yet to have a serious issue with the car. I have abused that poor car so much, pressing it's engine far too hard and taking turns faster than I should, and I have yet to have an issue *knocks on wood* My brother and sister in law still have their prius, and are (dorkily) proud to drive it, despite all of this news about recent recalls and problems. With any car, you're going to have problems, and yes, the executive public relations officer sent out an email about coming clean about this problem, but it's true what the higher ups said: they have to discover what is causing the problem before telling the world that there's a problem.
That's like saying "Russia is shooting nukes, but we don't know where their targeted locations are." You need to know the whole story before sending out news like that, or else it'll create mass panic and make the situation worse than it actually is.
I feel people just see one person making this complaint, see it in the news, and are finding it to be an easy scam to get more and more money out of a reliable and dependable company that's willing to pay the money out for grievances and customer support, because they're doing what's right. Either that or they want their "pity me, pity me" 15 minutes of unnecessary fame.
sephy rant over lol
04-08-2010, 11:34 AM
#12
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"as Toyota officials were on their way to Washington to discuss the problems with federal regulators. On Jan. 21, Toyota announced it would recall 2.3 million vehicles to address sticking pedals in six vehicle models."
this memo/email says nothing, means nothing. they were dealing with the issue. the problem is ignorant people, not pointing at you because you were just linking and commenting, but ignorant people will look at this and say " they knew about this HUGE problem and didn't do anything" wrong. they went above and beyond in my opinion and recalled 200billion or some ****, vehicles and replaced the accelorator assembly. probably with an exact model but with a different color electrical connector so they could show the difference.
The general public is an evolutionary amazement. it's compassion that has rendered our species obsolete. we care more about the weakest of our species than the strongest and that is why we have allowed ourselves to become this way. STUPID.
i agree that EVERY manufacturer has problems and every once and a while a lemon rolls out the door. but toyota has alot less problems and that has given them their stand as the #1 manufacturer in the world. but Ford, i will say is building amazing vehicles these days. that eco boost is 1 hell of an engine.
Last edited by E.M.S.; 04-08-2010 at 11:58 AM.
04-08-2010, 12:03 PM
#13
Administrator
i think you guys are missing one very important point- Toyota was hiding the pedal problems for a year at least. Teh documents show that Toyota had previously very unofficially told government types in Europe and even Canada that they might be having a problem but still didnt inform the NHTSA as they were required to do.
Toyota is not saying it didnt have a problem- it knows it was having problems and were keeping it quiet in hopes that it wouldnt have to do a huge recall here that would give it bad publicity. they were hiding it and for a long time ignoring it just as they did with the sludge. they came clean because they were forced to.
the NHTSA is also not innocent here. they had the data to tell them there was a problem. As several news outlets have reported now 40% of the complaints for accelerator problems in 2008 were about Toyota
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...s-ford-gm.html
It shouldn't have taken until ABC reported it to get it out to the public Toyota AND the NHTSA failed in their responsibility.
Toyota is not saying it didnt have a problem- it knows it was having problems and were keeping it quiet in hopes that it wouldnt have to do a huge recall here that would give it bad publicity. they were hiding it and for a long time ignoring it just as they did with the sludge. they came clean because they were forced to.
the NHTSA is also not innocent here. they had the data to tell them there was a problem. As several news outlets have reported now 40% of the complaints for accelerator problems in 2008 were about Toyota
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...s-ford-gm.html
It shouldn't have taken until ABC reported it to get it out to the public Toyota AND the NHTSA failed in their responsibility.
04-08-2010, 01:05 PM
#14
i think you guys are missing one very important point- Toyota was hiding the pedal problems for a year at least. Teh documents show that Toyota had previously very unofficially told government types in Europe and even Canada that they might be having a problem but still didnt inform the NHTSA as they were required to do.
Toyota is not saying it didnt have a problem- it knows it was having problems and were keeping it quiet in hopes that it wouldnt have to do a huge recall here that would give it bad publicity. they were hiding it and for a long time ignoring it just as they did with the sludge. they came clean because they were forced to.
the NHTSA is also not innocent here. they had the data to tell them there was a problem. As several news outlets have reported now 40% of the complaints for accelerator problems in 2008 were about Toyota
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...s-ford-gm.html
It shouldn't have taken until ABC reported it to get it out to the public Toyota AND the NHTSA failed in their responsibility.
Toyota is not saying it didnt have a problem- it knows it was having problems and were keeping it quiet in hopes that it wouldnt have to do a huge recall here that would give it bad publicity. they were hiding it and for a long time ignoring it just as they did with the sludge. they came clean because they were forced to.
the NHTSA is also not innocent here. they had the data to tell them there was a problem. As several news outlets have reported now 40% of the complaints for accelerator problems in 2008 were about Toyota
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...s-ford-gm.html
It shouldn't have taken until ABC reported it to get it out to the public Toyota AND the NHTSA failed in their responsibility.
In fact:
According to the Los Angeles Times (11/29/09) at least 19 deaths were attributed sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles since the start of the 2002 model year.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov...yota-recall8/4
In 2004, the NHTSA began a probe into a defect petition filed by Carol J. Mathews, a registered nurse who was then director of health services for the Montgomery County, Md., school system. Matthews reported that she had her foot on the brake of 2002 Lexus ES when it took off and hit a tree.
In its subsequent investigation, the NHTSA and Toyota both winnowed down other reports of sudden acceleration involving 2002 and 2003 Lexus ES and Camry models.
When the agency asked Toyota to disgorge all of the reports it knew about, the company eliminated an unknown number in five broad categories, including cases in which drivers said they were unable to control a runaway engine by applying the brakes.
In closing the probe, federal investigators said only 20 cases were considered relevant.
But The Times' examination of consumer complaints and a sampling of reports from Toyota dealers found more than 400 reports of sudden acceleration involving those models. And federal records show that the NHTSA knew about 260 of those cases and another 114 cases identified by Toyota.
As for its position that brakes can always overcome a vehicle's engine, the safety agency and Toyota now acknowledge that a braking system cannot always counter a wide-open throttle, as is the case in sudden acceleration.
04-08-2010, 01:13 PM
#15
Stupidity keeps me busy!!
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if you caused an accident and had no other explaination wouldn't you blame the vehicle?
there is no way that a toyota, any Toyota has the power to outperform the brakes. END OF STORY!!! step on brakes car stops.
there is no way that a toyota, any Toyota has the power to outperform the brakes. END OF STORY!!! step on brakes car stops.
04-08-2010, 01:20 PM
#16
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...-56629472.html
Have you seen this?
I believe this guy. Even the dealership service manager saw the problem with his own eyes:
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Last edited by RotoRocket; 04-08-2010 at 01:24 PM.
04-08-2010, 02:07 PM
#17
Administrator
this article was in the USA today http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...kes06_ST_N.htm
It mentions that while GM is installing brake over rides(and already has systems in place in 9 models) it has had an internal policy that the brakes should always be able to stop its vehicles in a WOT situation from hwy speeds.
It mentions that while GM is installing brake over rides(and already has systems in place in 9 models) it has had an internal policy that the brakes should always be able to stop its vehicles in a WOT situation from hwy speeds.
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