Mazda to design Ford subcompact
#52
Super Moderator
Thanks ZOOM!!
I am getting yelled at to get off, I have to go....!!
I stand corrected ZOOM, yep Ford has the financial controlling interest in Mazda.....
Bascho, There was obviously no need for Ford to take 51%, or spend more $$$'s...
Thanks again Zoom...your the man!
I am getting yelled at to get off, I have to go....!!
I stand corrected ZOOM, yep Ford has the financial controlling interest in Mazda.....
Bascho, There was obviously no need for Ford to take 51%, or spend more $$$'s...
Thanks again Zoom...your the man!
#53
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I've just always referred naysayers regarding Fords control of Mazda to Ford's Annual Report. Mazda is clearly listed in the pages in black and white for all to see with top Ford executives commenting on the direction of the company. When the RX-8 first came to market the Ford annual report had near a full page dedicated to bragging about the development of the car.
#54
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Originally Posted by bascho
Nice post Zoom That's why you da boss of this shiiiit
HEY! I had posted stuff on this a couple weeks ago... including info on Japanese corporate law.
#55
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Originally Posted by ASH8
Actually how the Ford influence came to Mazda was years before the US arm of Ford steps it, origingally.......and this is a brief explanation...
After the death of Mr.Matsuda the last main surviving executive and family founder of Mazda, financial constraints occurred over the fuel crisis of 1973/74/75, Mazda invested heavily in the RX-4 and all rotaries, but, sales slumped DRAMATICALLY, the Sumitomo Bank took control.(as far as I know are still to this day the MAJORITY financial share holder of MAZDA, more than the 30% or Ford US).
After the Sumitomo Banks rescued Mazda from bankruptcy, Ford Australia (which is US owned..dah), actually bought 25% of the share from the bank, and had one(1) Australian board member.
Ford US realised Mazda's worth and purchased another 5% about 10 years later, and another 2 board members to 3, add "Booth" as president that brings the total to 4 out of the 14 board members.
Later a US CEO was installed to represent their 30% share more "appropriately".
In the US you may view it differently, but here in Australia and the UK 51% is a majority share and controlling interest/ownership, and the same applies in Japan.
Out of a total of 46 executives at Mazda Japan, 12 are American, 1 Australian, and the remaining 33 are Japanese.
After the death of Mr.Matsuda the last main surviving executive and family founder of Mazda, financial constraints occurred over the fuel crisis of 1973/74/75, Mazda invested heavily in the RX-4 and all rotaries, but, sales slumped DRAMATICALLY, the Sumitomo Bank took control.(as far as I know are still to this day the MAJORITY financial share holder of MAZDA, more than the 30% or Ford US).
After the Sumitomo Banks rescued Mazda from bankruptcy, Ford Australia (which is US owned..dah), actually bought 25% of the share from the bank, and had one(1) Australian board member.
Ford US realised Mazda's worth and purchased another 5% about 10 years later, and another 2 board members to 3, add "Booth" as president that brings the total to 4 out of the 14 board members.
Later a US CEO was installed to represent their 30% share more "appropriately".
In the US you may view it differently, but here in Australia and the UK 51% is a majority share and controlling interest/ownership, and the same applies in Japan.
Out of a total of 46 executives at Mazda Japan, 12 are American, 1 Australian, and the remaining 33 are Japanese.
Sorry, Japanese corporate law ISN'T the same as Australia or even the US. Actually it's rather screwed up, but that's par for course. Anyway, as I had posted some weeks ago... LEGALLY, ownership of 1/3 or more of the shares gives the holder management decision power and veto power at board meetings. So it doesn't matter if anyone else holds a ton of shares or not... they have to work together with Ford to get what they want. But that point is moot, because as both Zoom44 and I (in the past) have posted, Ford IS the largest shareholder inaddtion to owning more than 1/3 of Mazda's shares.
#56
Out of NYC
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My simple question turned into a big big discussion :-O
They should put more resource into Rotary devlopement. 8 was the first car I personally "own". Im paying it outa my own savings. @ 25 years old I think its ok to have my own car.
I didnt know what Rotary was really like, I heard good things about the 7, so I got the 8.
At first I was "quite disppoainted" with its performance. but the more I drive it, the more I like it.
Now my question is, what would've happened. if Ford gave Mazda's more "resources" in the first place for Rotary Development ? Its gonna be alot better I think.
They should put more resource into Rotary devlopement. 8 was the first car I personally "own". Im paying it outa my own savings. @ 25 years old I think its ok to have my own car.
I didnt know what Rotary was really like, I heard good things about the 7, so I got the 8.
At first I was "quite disppoainted" with its performance. but the more I drive it, the more I like it.
Now my question is, what would've happened. if Ford gave Mazda's more "resources" in the first place for Rotary Development ? Its gonna be alot better I think.
#58
Go Texas Longhorns!
Originally Posted by nycgps
My simple question turned into a big big discussion :-O
They should put more resource into Rotary devlopement. 8 was the first car I personally "own". Im paying it outa my own savings. @ 25 years old I think its ok to have my own car.
I didnt know what Rotary was really like, I heard good things about the 7, so I got the 8.
At first I was "quite disppoainted" with its performance. but the more I drive it, the more I like it.
Now my question is, what would've happened. if Ford gave Mazda's more "resources" in the first place for Rotary Development ? Its gonna be alot better I think.
They should put more resource into Rotary devlopement. 8 was the first car I personally "own". Im paying it outa my own savings. @ 25 years old I think its ok to have my own car.
I didnt know what Rotary was really like, I heard good things about the 7, so I got the 8.
At first I was "quite disppoainted" with its performance. but the more I drive it, the more I like it.
Now my question is, what would've happened. if Ford gave Mazda's more "resources" in the first place for Rotary Development ? Its gonna be alot better I think.
It looks like we will finally be getting some serious rotary advancements in the near future such as direct injection, all aluminum construction and hybrid technology.
#59
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Originally Posted by zoom44
i actually was going to go looking for your previous post on the subject Japan but i found the stock info first.
's ok. Thought it was odd you didn't just post a link to that thread instead of searching. I c now.
#60
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Originally Posted by bascho
The reason they were able to break into this segment in the US is that Americans of then and now believe in the bigger is better theory. When I say Americans, I mean citizens that have lived in this country for several generations. Immigrants to the US do not have the same mindset and thus purchased the smaller automobiles they were used to in their native country. It just so happened that the smaller cars were available in great #'s from Asian car makers.
I'm not sure where you get these stereotyped ideas from... but talk with ignorant inferences like that has recently been coming from noteables like the Mayor or New Orleans, Pat Robinson, and Trent Lot, to name only a few who seem destined to put their foot in their mouths regularly.
To say only immigrants to this country historically buy/bought small cars... and that's how the 'foreign' automakers got started.... I mean really.... that is a head shaker. Where have you grown up? It's simply insulting and that's the nicest word that comes to mind.
Let me tell you a story and hopefully this will educate you, if even only a bit...
My relatives likey were on the Mayflower, at least to hear them talk. I'm white as a sheet, as American as apple pie, at least according to your definitions. As I mentioned somewhere in a thread, my first car out of HS was a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500, only a few years old at that time. What a fun piece of crap that was. A 289 V8 auto that had a glasspack muffler, chrome aircleaner, 4 barrel carb and a jacked up rear end... it looked pretty good. However it went like a slow fart lol, so I always lost streetlight challenges that came my way regularly because of the muffler sound. I spent more keeping it running for my 1 yr of ownership than I paid for it, and it was my everlasting lesson on FORDs (even though I had been brought up to love them by my well-intention, but sadly misinformed (conerning quality cars) father.
Sold it and bought a brand spanking new 1972 Toyota Mark II. One of the best cars I've owned. After 109K, sold that and bought the 1st Honda Accord brough to the US in 1976...it was about Mini size, then after that several more Honda Accords, a Mitsu, a Civic, and now the RX-8.
Moral of the story....and hopefully a lesson in something for you...I don't think there is anything at all unusual about my buying habits, Millions of people who are sensible, reasonable people from where ever by small cars in America. It has absolutely nothing to do with your wrong-headed idea that immigrants like small cars because the are 'used to them in their own countries' or whatever you were trying to say.
If you are basing your logic in this thread on ideas as wrong headed as these are, your arguments here are virtually baseless. I'm not flaming you.... I'm telling you you need to get out of the cabbage patch you've been getting your ideas from about people and cars and 'Americans' and discover the real world. maybe travel a bit... it's a big country. I not trying to insult you, just wake you up. Perhaps that's why so many have difficulty with many of your thoughts.
#61
Originally Posted by Spin9k
The above is too blatant and insult to all involved in that paragraph to let it pass bascho. You seem well intentioned so benefit of the doubt to you.... Maybe you didn't intend it the way it sounds, but.... think what you're saying....really.
I'm not sure where you get these stereotyped ideas from... but talk with ignorant inferences like that has recently been coming from noteables like the Mayor or New Orleans, Pat Robinson, and Trent Lot, to name only a few who seem destined to put their foot in their mouths regularly.
To say only immigrants to this country historically buy/bought small cars... and that's how the 'foreign' automakers got started.... I mean really.... that is a head shaker. Where have you grown up? It's simply insulting and that's the nicest word that comes to mind.
Let me tell you a story and hopefully this will educate you, if even only a bit...
My relatives likey were on the Mayflower, at least to hear them talk. I'm white as a sheet, as American as apple pie, at least according to your definitions. As I mentioned somewhere in a thread, my first car out of HS was a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500, only a few years old at that time. What a fun piece of crap that was. A 289 V8 auto that had a glasspack muffler, chrome aircleaner, 4 barrel carb and a jacked up rear end... it looked pretty good. However it went like a slow fart lol, so I always lost streetlight challenges that came my way regularly because of the muffler sound. I spent more keeping it running for my 1 yr of ownership than I paid for it, and it was my everlasting lesson on FORDs (even though I had been brought up to love them by my well-intention, but sadly misinformed (conerning quality cars) father.
Sold it and bought a brand spanking new 1972 Toyota Mark II. One of the best cars I've owned. After 109K, sold that and bought the 1st Honda Accord brough to the US in 1976...it was about Mini size, then after that several more Honda Accords, a Mitsu, a Civic, and now the RX-8.
Moral of the story....and hopefully a lesson in something for you...I don't think there is anything at all unusual about my buying habits, Millions of people who are sensible, reasonable people from where ever by small cars in America. It has absolutely nothing to do with your wrong-headed idea that immigrants like small cars because the are 'used to them in their own countries' or whatever you were trying to say.
If you are basing your logic in this thread on ideas as wrong headed as these are, your arguments here are virtually baseless. I'm not flaming you.... I'm telling you you need to get out of the cabbage patch you've been getting your ideas from about people and cars and 'Americans' and discover the real world. maybe travel a bit... it's a big country. I not trying to insult you, just wake you up. Perhaps that's why so many have difficulty with many of your thoughts.
I'm not sure where you get these stereotyped ideas from... but talk with ignorant inferences like that has recently been coming from noteables like the Mayor or New Orleans, Pat Robinson, and Trent Lot, to name only a few who seem destined to put their foot in their mouths regularly.
To say only immigrants to this country historically buy/bought small cars... and that's how the 'foreign' automakers got started.... I mean really.... that is a head shaker. Where have you grown up? It's simply insulting and that's the nicest word that comes to mind.
Let me tell you a story and hopefully this will educate you, if even only a bit...
My relatives likey were on the Mayflower, at least to hear them talk. I'm white as a sheet, as American as apple pie, at least according to your definitions. As I mentioned somewhere in a thread, my first car out of HS was a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500, only a few years old at that time. What a fun piece of crap that was. A 289 V8 auto that had a glasspack muffler, chrome aircleaner, 4 barrel carb and a jacked up rear end... it looked pretty good. However it went like a slow fart lol, so I always lost streetlight challenges that came my way regularly because of the muffler sound. I spent more keeping it running for my 1 yr of ownership than I paid for it, and it was my everlasting lesson on FORDs (even though I had been brought up to love them by my well-intention, but sadly misinformed (conerning quality cars) father.
Sold it and bought a brand spanking new 1972 Toyota Mark II. One of the best cars I've owned. After 109K, sold that and bought the 1st Honda Accord brough to the US in 1976...it was about Mini size, then after that several more Honda Accords, a Mitsu, a Civic, and now the RX-8.
Moral of the story....and hopefully a lesson in something for you...I don't think there is anything at all unusual about my buying habits, Millions of people who are sensible, reasonable people from where ever by small cars in America. It has absolutely nothing to do with your wrong-headed idea that immigrants like small cars because the are 'used to them in their own countries' or whatever you were trying to say.
If you are basing your logic in this thread on ideas as wrong headed as these are, your arguments here are virtually baseless. I'm not flaming you.... I'm telling you you need to get out of the cabbage patch you've been getting your ideas from about people and cars and 'Americans' and discover the real world. maybe travel a bit... it's a big country. I not trying to insult you, just wake you up. Perhaps that's why so many have difficulty with many of your thoughts.
I never intended to insult anyone with my statement. I am not sure what experience others have had in other states.....but the things I just stated about immigrants to America with regards to automotive preference is the experience that I've had.
Again, I meant no disrespect to anyone......that is not the type of person that I am.
Last edited by bascho; 02-09-2006 at 11:56 AM.
#62
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by nycgps
My simple question turned into a big big discussion :-O
They should put more resource into Rotary devlopement. 8 was the first car I personally "own". Im paying it outa my own savings. @ 25 years old I think its ok to have my own car.
I didnt know what Rotary was really like, I heard good things about the 7, so I got the 8.
At first I was "quite disppoainted" with its performance. but the more I drive it, the more I like it.
Now my question is, what would've happened. if Ford gave Mazda's more "resources" in the first place for Rotary Development ? Its gonna be alot better I think.
They should put more resource into Rotary devlopement. 8 was the first car I personally "own". Im paying it outa my own savings. @ 25 years old I think its ok to have my own car.
I didnt know what Rotary was really like, I heard good things about the 7, so I got the 8.
At first I was "quite disppoainted" with its performance. but the more I drive it, the more I like it.
Now my question is, what would've happened. if Ford gave Mazda's more "resources" in the first place for Rotary Development ? Its gonna be alot better I think.
IMO the way oil prices are heading I don't think we will see little if any change to what we have now, everyones post's here on a "new" rotary are generally from hearsay or media gossip. There is talk of a 15B or a 3 rotor, ALL will use more fuel, complying with emissions is another task to overcome. There is also Direct Ingection...if you want do a search, Rotary God has posted some very good info on this very subject.
As I said I don't think you will see any major structural change in the Rotary as Its all been done before.
The beauty of the Rotary...as you say the" more you drive it the more you like it", I think you have now been infected by the "Wankel Virus", watch out its very difficult to medicate!
Last edited by ASH8; 02-09-2006 at 02:05 PM.
#63
Super Moderator
Having said that we may see in a world car, the hydrogen powered rotary like the RX-8 now on sale/lease in Japan, but, thats a fuel matter, internal structure of the hydrogen rotary is still very closely aligned to the existing engine....just a lot more "ADD" ons and fuel mixers,valves, etc.
Then there is the Hybrid Mazda 5 Rotary....
IMO Hydrogen still has a very long way to go before its accepted by the masses.
Then there is the Hybrid Mazda 5 Rotary....
IMO Hydrogen still has a very long way to go before its accepted by the masses.
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