UnknownJinX

Meh, if it's just a range-extender designed for an econo electric SUV(that's not that competitive to begin with and is sold in North America only for regulation reasons), I don't think that's what most people here are looking for, anyway.

"Oh but maybe they can put the system in a sports car!" Nah. Look at how the BMW i8 and 2nd Gen Honda/Acura NSX worked out. Hybrid sports cars are a pretty tough sell - people who buy these want the engine sound. They couldn't care less about emissions or gas mileage.

I'm gonna be on the pessimistic side of things with BigCajun. We want to see an ICE-only(or at the very least, something like the CX-90 MHEV system) sports car, preferably with a manual transmission, and we know this isn't happening, so it may as well just be dead.

If I want an EV with a rotary onboard, I can just buy any EV and then put a busted rotary engine in the frunk/trunk and call it a day. Bonus that it will never have problems because it never runs.

kevink0000

I'm going to be gentle, but I will say I am surprised by some of the comments here.

Take a longer view. Scale is important to any production, especially for a smaller company with a niche product like Mazda with their rotary. I know you know this.

They could have easily shelved the rotary and produced a piston engine hybrid, but they chose not to. I am sure it would have been much cheaper, unless there were other plans (already in place, I might add) that justified the R/D and risk.

I believe this route was taken to bring scale and profitability, so that funding and experience is provided so further rotary projects can be done in the future.

The pricing of the R-EV also is aggressive compared to other similar Mazda products in the same markets, so that it hopefully gets adopted in larger numbers.

There are few other explanations for the above that make sense if you think about it.

Like I said before, we should be rejoicing over this news, not pissing on it.

UnknownJinX

I think the scalable system is the BEV package (with the optional RE range extender), not the RE itself. That's a pretty big difference. RE is holding on because of the packaging and NVH advantages, but I am sure it is fairly disposable if they can't get it to work well enough.

I don't dislike EVs, but for me, I'd get one just as an A-to-B toaster machine to save wear and tear on a fun ICE-only car. Having an RE range extender, as I mentioned, is the same feeling as getting an EV with a bigger battery and putting a $100 paperweight RX-8 engine with 0/0/0 compression in the trunk. I think that's how a lot of people here would feel, too. The market, too, has proven that hybrid sports cars get swept away. An EV sports car with an RE range extender will be a literal embodiment of "Who asked", too. It will please no one.

Another point that I should really add is that, if you look at the Mazda crowd, people aren't even that hopeful about Mazda giving us an I6 sports car(or even just an RWD sedan) with the CX-90 powertrain. Heck, they never even bothered making a performance version of the 2.5T Mazda3(what did they call that again? Speed something? Performance Series?) which would be significantly less work than an RE ICE-only(or MHEV) RWD sports car. What makes you so confident about Mazda giving us an RE ICE-only(or MHEV) RWD sports car if they aren't doing anything that's infinitely easier to do?

There is also the fact that MX-30 is anything but performance. It's like the slowest EV of its size. Hopefully, things change for the better in the next generation of EVs by Mazda.

I'd be happy to be wrong, very much so, but with anything rotary sports car stuff, seeing is believing is a very good rule to stick with.

Edit: oh also, Mazda has to be aggressive with MX-30's pricing, R-EV or not. The MX-30 R-EV has similar fuel consumption as a CX-90(that's a lot bigger, heavier, and has more than twice the power). In Canada, the BEV is getting a CAN$ 4,000 manufacturer rebate. Again, it's just not very competitive to begin with, so that's about the only thing they can do with it at this point. Rotary's performance gap between piston engines is already pretty big when the RX-8 is around if you compare it to Mazda's own Speed3 at the time. Halting the R&D on it certainly didn't do it any favours, and it shows.

Another edit: you don't have anyone other than Mazda themself to blame for people "pissing on the news", as you put it. We are talking about the brand that pissed on their own motorsport branch here, so forgive us when we are more than skeptical about Mazda being able to deliver anything that's not an SUV. And yes, I get it, they have to make SUVs to survive, but if they can't be bothered to make a Mazdaspeed3 successor(fairly low-risk stuff if you ask me - Civic Type R and Corolla GR sell fine even with ridiculous markups), don't set your expectations high.

kevink0000

Most here now are speaking about what was, rather than objectively looking at what is.

This is another reason I think the bottom is in on rotary production and development.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

🤔
.

UnknownJinX

People have made points about the MX-30 R-EV, which is a current product. Still pretty underpowered, pretty cramped, and the fuel mileage, from what I can gather so far, is on par with the much larger and much more powerful CX-90. And what do Mazda's current products mainly consist of nowadays? Oh.

And again, if you just want a rotary engine, sure, MX-30 R-EV has it. The point BC and I are trying to make is that we want a car where the RE is connected to the wheel via a transmission and a differential(and I am being pretty generous with the MHEV stuff), not a car where the RE is just a generator. Wouldn't take anything less than that, because I can buy a working model for 500 bucks if I just want to say "I have a rotary."



I admire the amount of hopium you have but again, seeing is believing. I have no reason to believe anything unless a production date for an RX-9 is announced. I'd be very happy to have you shove my words in my face one day. I just have a feeling that you won't get to do that.

kevink0000

Again, you are tending to prove my point, with each of your posts.
The bottom is in.

UnknownJinX

Sorry, that's just "pigeon knocking over pieces on a chessboard and pretending it won" logic.

This isn't stock market/crypto where you can buy when everyone is being pessimistic, aka when "the bottom is in", and expect to make a buck when people start being optimistic again. Stocks and crypto base part of their value in speculations, too, and even then, you have to understand that maybe people are pessimistic for a good reason, and there is a chance that the bottom isn't in. It is going to be a high-risk, high-return investment.

Pretty much everyone is sick of speculations now and Mazda isn't making any indication of them willing to make something sportier than a Miata. You are gonna need a lot more hopium where that comes from.

I will leave a helpful piece of advice: it's better to be pleasantly surprised when you have no expectations than it is to be terminally depressed waiting for something to happen, especially when you have zero control over it.

kevink0000

Pigeons and Bitcoin…

I’m going to stop now, since I’m not being understood.

Time will tell.

In the meantime (really) research Fibonacci, you will probably find that very interesting.

peloponisios

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati.../#post12581465

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yay!
Somebody gets it.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

Here ya go dreamers.

Take your Mazda Rotatoaster fantasies here.

https://www.rx8club.com/general-auto...5/#post4987085


Also, this thread for more EV nonsense.

https://www.rx8club.com/general-auto...-stuff-273282/

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

From the 7club

https://www.rx7club.com/old-school-o...ngine-1164157/

Good discussion. Some basic points mentioned that are a little hard to ignore.

I do know that the MX-30 EV fell on its' face out here in CA (ghastly sales #'s). But maybe this will prove to be a subjectively 'better' and therefore desirable product. I'm not sure.

The design and implementation are meant for a 'different' market.

kevink0000

The RX-7 Club string has some good, fresh info. Thank you for posting.

MincVinyl

Still working on it

kevink0000

For those that would like some encouragement here you go:

For those that would like to denigrate and naysay, here you go also:

Something for everyone!

Mazda in February will establish a team dedicated to the development of rotary engines, CEO Katsuhiro Moro announced during this past weekend's 2024 Tokyo Auto Salon.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ry-development


https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/m...er-to-reality/The rotor heads have spoken and Mazda has listened. Following a rapturous reception for its Iconic SP concept car Mazda is now working on bringing a rotary-powered sports car to market.

“I am very happy and deeply moved by all the support and encouragement I have received for the compact sports car concept,” said Mazda President and CEO Masahiro Moro at the 2024 Tokyo Auto Salon. “I would like to take this opportunity to thank you all. With your encouragement, we are launching a rotary engine development group on 1 February to move closer to this dream.”

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

JohnTheBastard

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

That's a good one.

UnknownJinX

Seeing is believing.

Just a good rule to go by when it comes to these things.