PoorCollegeKid

Do you think it would have heat problems if Mazda had gone with a more conventional front mount or side mount intercooler? I was kind of thrown off when I first read that the MS6 had a top mount; putting an intercooler right on top of the hot exhaust manifold and over the hot turbo without much space for airflow underneath didn't make a whole lot of sense to me then and still doesn't now. This setup may have cut down on lag, but having to pull boost after a few hard runs sounds like a much worse situation than a little bit more lag would've been. A front/side mount may have also let them use a smaller, lighter hood and have saved a few pounds on the fairly heavy car.

s13lover

I've had a subscription to C&D for 12 years. In their comparison they'll say at the beginning exactly what the point of the comparison is.....the most uncompromised car, or the best all around performer, or whatever. Yet, their point scales is the same regardless of what the particular comparison is focused on.

MikeW

What is with the narrow tires 215/45 18, 234/45 17 would be better.
What is with the engine revving to 7000 with peak power at 5000.

With direct injection, how much benefit would be had from a front mounted intercooler versus the current setup.

s13lover

Mazda has said that wider tires would rub suspension parts under hard turing.

zoom44

hmmm sems they turned the boost down in other markets

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/preview...zda_6_mps.html

GULAMAN

Well, sorta yes, sorta no. After they add up the performance, comfort, styling points, they then add in the subjective "Fun to drive" factor and the completely useless "Gotta Have it" factor; each of which carry a lot more points weighting than any of the other (more tangible, IMO) factors. These two factors tend to jumble the finishing orders of these comparos quite a bit, compared to how you'd think it would turn out by just reading the driving observations. so definitely take C&D with a grain of salt.

I do agree with MikeW that the MS6 is undertired. that's definitely an earned knock on Mazda for not forseeing that a 3500# sports sedan would need extra rubber.

Japan8

I did and still do disagree with how Mazda setup the MS6's engine. Personally I have no problem with a discreet hood scoop like on the Legacy GT. That doesn't look immature, rice or whatever to me. If, for whatever reason, they had to use a top mounted intercooler, then that is what they should have used. Additionally... according to a JDM magazine the Tokyo Auto Salon MS Concept car had a larger intercooler and turbo. That is something else they should have considered versus just upping the boost for the USDM.

With the setup they used... a carbon fiber hood, magnesium alloy, or ? hood should have been used to reduce weight with some kind of venting (something like the MS Concept car) to help keep under hood temps down. That plus a larger intercooler and possibly a larger turbo with less boost would have been a more optimal setup.

The best setup... a side mount or front mount intercooler with a normal hood and possibly a larger turbo.

What mazda did put out for USDM was just half-assed and stupid. Upping the boost and changing the gearing to improve performance without adequate consideration for the cooling issues and gasoline quality (in places like Ca) was just plain old amature. Rushing a flawed product to market is a good way to lose customers. I expect better of Mazda than that.

rx-cars_rock

I would have thought mazda learned its lesson after producing the 2nd Gen. RX-7 with a top mount intercooler. Even the MS Miata has a FMIC!! That huge bumper opening on the MS6 would be the perfect place to put a FMIC, but noooooooo why would they want to do something crazy like that?

I bet they didn't make the MS6 any more powerful because then it would be faster than the RX-8 in straight line performance.

PoorCollegeKid

I think that it's already a bit quicker than the RX8 through a 1/4 mile. In the few reviews I've read, it's been running low, low 14s at just under 100mph, with a 0-60 under 5.5.

TALAN7

The Mazdaspeed 6 is crap. What happened to Mazdas vaunted lightweight great handling cars. If this is supposed to be the top 6, then forget about it. Mazda is great at making a 7/10 car but they can't make a 10/10 car.

rx-cars_rock

Yeah I'm aware that its already faster than the 8, but I was saying they didn't want to make it any more powerful than it currently is so it wouldn't really walk away from the 8 in a straight line. Unless people are really beating the absolute **** out of either car the race will be awfully close.

zoom44

the speed or performance of the rx-8 was not a metric of any kind when developing the MS6.

ASH8

AS we know Mazda have always been on the conservative or cautious side when it comes to turbos and boost on any of its Japanese made models....I wonder why?

Even the 150 Australian developed/made MX-5SP (NB) Turbo's by A.Horsley & Co had mild boost.
Partly because the engine/pistons and rings were stock standard MX-5.
It did though out perform the later Japanese MX-5 SE which was factory modified.

ASH8

Give me a break!....

So who in your opinion make 10/10 cars?

And who and in what numbers (sales) are going to buy this 10/10 car, and who can and would be able to afford it.

Every car ever made is also made to a price...you know, you get what you pay for.

Mazda like the other 99.9% of manufacturers mass produce cars for WORLD markets, with all types of performance related/reliability issues because of fuel quality in a particular region and or climate.

IMO Mazda like some other makes get the 'Balance' right.

czr

iTrader: (3)

Dang, you are never happy. First you say that Mazdas are underpowered. Now that they build a high hp one, you say why is it so heavy.. blah blah blah. Ash has a point and the thing Mazda concentrates on is balance and also driver connection to the road; that zoom-zoom feeling. The perfect car does not exist because everyone has different needs/tastes. There is something not right if you are basing your "The Mazdaspeed 6 is crap" notion on a review you read in a magazine.

ASH8

I have to also add, and yeah, I say that I am BIAS to anything MAZDA...and at the moment I can be, If Mazda make such "crap' cars that are 7/10.....

Why so many Automotive Awards world wide for the RX-8,Mazda3, Mazda6, Mazda5......
and now the new MX-5...Japan's Car of the Year, New Zealand's COTY, Australia's COTY, against the competitors, like Mercedes CSL, Mercedes M Class (Made IN USA), BMW 3 Series, Lexus IS 250, PORSCHE, etc ,etc,.

So, all these judges have it wrong?

Shiri

Yes.

How could they miss the CLS55 or Z tune Skyline GTR???

Japan8

What Skyline GTR? It hasn't been in production for several years now.

DARKMAZ8

I think they(mazda) just want to build cars that perform well and be civilized at the same time. I don't by that garbage about handling dynamics. Mazda could easily build the perfect race car for the street but convincing mazda that it will sell is another story altogether. I think the company is still rebuilding itself and the more enthusiast oriented cars will come when Mazda can afford to take more risks.

Basically in a nutshell, If Mazda can be the first and only Japanese manufacturer to win Lemans, have their own formula open wheel championship and be the only car company to make the rotary competitive. I'm sure it's not Mazda's engineering that is holding them back. It's all economics my friend.

Also keep in mind that Mazda will never make an evo or sti killer(ie awd ms3 with ms6 motor) . Not because they can't but because it would be a terrible business move. If anything, I could see a future rx7 or rx9 that will be everything the fd was and more. The price will be higher then the 8 and it will have FI.

I would advise everyone to be patient with mazda. I'm sure that something is cooking as we speak.

TALAN7

Everyone praises Mazda for making cars that are just right, handling, weight, balance etc. but why is the Mazdaspeed 6 so heavy? Compared to other all wheel drive cars its heavy. The Legacy is faster and handles better.

I like Mazdas. They just can't seem to get the perfect combination of speed and handling. IMO Mazda should have shot for EVO performance out of the Mazdaspeed 6. In the long run I don't think it will really matter as I don't think it will be a great seller. I sat in one at the dealer and they wanted 38 grand for it. IT IS NOT WORTH THAT! Anything more than 30 for that is a ripoff.

As far as the RX 8 is concerned, read Car magazines rightup about it. Something about how they're getting tired of it and how it has no torque and that sure Mazda's got good handling in the 8 but not bad gas mileage

DARKMAZ8

The mazda 6 is a mid sized sedan not a sport compact. If mazda wanted to compete with the evo, they would use the mazda 3 chassis.

why are you so mad at mazda? sounds like you have a vendetta.

TALAN7

I see Mazda for what it is. A middle of the road car manufacturer who makes somewhat sporty vehicles.

This is my first Japanese car and I must say I'm not impressed. My car just spent 2 weeks at the dealer waiting for an altenator that went at 50,800 miles. 800 miles after my warranty expired. Mazda did pick up part of the tab and I'm greatful for that, but I still had to pay. That, along with the 2 water pumps I needed (both were repaired under warranty, but I'm afraid of it happening again), the ac condensor I shelled almost $800 for and the 3 times a week I've gotta fill her up, I'm starting to wonder what's so great about this car. Sure it handles good but that's just one factor. It's slow to pick up unless I'm wailing it and that just gets me even less mileage. The mileage on this car is at the exotic car level but the power is not. I can see if it had one, bad gas mileage but awesome power and pickup or great mileage and the pickup it has but when it comes to pickup it's at the bottom of the pack of the cars it's compared with and the worst at mileage. I'm sorry for venting, this is the wrong thread for that.

DARKMAZ8

sorry to hear about your troubles but it seems that you made the wrong car choice from the get go. Did you test drive the 8 before you bought it?

TALAN7

Yes I did and I fell in love with it. I never said I didn't want my car. I love it and hate it at the same time. Perhaps you guys can't relate to such a concept. Like a woman who has your heart but in the long run is not so good for you.

TALAN7

and a 10 minute test drive isn't going to tell you everything about a car. I should've waited for a few longterm tests and not been one of the 1st to buy the car. I realize now that the longterm tests are a more important gauge to consider.