Mclaren gets fined $100 million for spying..
09-14-2007, 02:20 PM
#26
They are up now.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=32766
Pretty convincing argument in there.
Also, Peter Windsor was saying this morning that the big rumor (supposedly from good sources) is that Alonso tried to blackmail the team to get Hamilton sent to test driver status (replaced by De La Rosa) or Alonso would reveal the damning evidence.
Regardless of how true this is, Alonso and De La Rosa did reveal the evidence....
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=32766
Pretty convincing argument in there.
Also, Peter Windsor was saying this morning that the big rumor (supposedly from good sources) is that Alonso tried to blackmail the team to get Hamilton sent to test driver status (replaced by De La Rosa) or Alonso would reveal the damning evidence.
Regardless of how true this is, Alonso and De La Rosa did reveal the evidence....
09-14-2007, 03:16 PM
#30
There are several sources that Ron Dennis alerted the FIA, last month, about the email exchanges.
09-14-2007, 03:32 PM
#31
My father-in-law (deceased) was in Spa, in Dec 1944, during WW II. He was one of Gen. Patton's men.
Last edited by alnielsen; 09-14-2007 at 03:48 PM.
09-15-2007, 12:23 AM
#32
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This all but locks the driver's championship for Hamilton . . . I forsee some, ahh, unfortunate pit delays in Alonso's future.
My money's on little Bow Wow, backed by 50 Cent in the Glaceau Vitamin Water Hyundai, to clinch the 2010 championship at the Indian GP!
My money's on little Bow Wow, backed by 50 Cent in the Glaceau Vitamin Water Hyundai, to clinch the 2010 championship at the Indian GP!
09-15-2007, 02:35 AM
#33
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I don't see any problems for Alonso due to the FIA decision. Right now at the Belgian GP practice, Alonso is the fastest. He has his own crew that is separate from Hamilton's crew, and the 2 crews probably have an open competition to see who does the pit stops faster.
Don't be manipulated by the language in the titles of the articles, which focus on Alonso ratting out McLaren; that's just for marketing purposes. The facts are simple. Coughlan is ultimately the scape goat because he went to meet Stepney and took home the giant Ferrari documents. Coughlan then passed on information in the documents to de la Rosa and Alonso. Hamilton denied receiving emails with Ferrari info from Coughlan, which is highly unlikely (they are both English). More likely is that (A) Coughlan emailed Hamilton but both were able to delete the emails before the investigation, and/or (B) Coughlan talked to Hamilton in person. The correspondence between de la Rosa and Alonso provided the same kinds of evidence as the correspondence between Coughlan and de la Rosa. Alonso and de la Rosa had no choice but to fess up because the emails were already in the hands of the FIA investigation. The crews and folks at McLaren have no reason to single Alonso out. They have reason to blame only Coughlan.
I'm looking for Alonso to win the championship again.
Don't be manipulated by the language in the titles of the articles, which focus on Alonso ratting out McLaren; that's just for marketing purposes. The facts are simple. Coughlan is ultimately the scape goat because he went to meet Stepney and took home the giant Ferrari documents. Coughlan then passed on information in the documents to de la Rosa and Alonso. Hamilton denied receiving emails with Ferrari info from Coughlan, which is highly unlikely (they are both English). More likely is that (A) Coughlan emailed Hamilton but both were able to delete the emails before the investigation, and/or (B) Coughlan talked to Hamilton in person. The correspondence between de la Rosa and Alonso provided the same kinds of evidence as the correspondence between Coughlan and de la Rosa. Alonso and de la Rosa had no choice but to fess up because the emails were already in the hands of the FIA investigation. The crews and folks at McLaren have no reason to single Alonso out. They have reason to blame only Coughlan.
I'm looking for Alonso to win the championship again.
09-15-2007, 10:17 AM
#34
Taken from:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=32795
Speaking to British broadcaster ITV ahead of today's qualifying session, Mosley described the phone call that Ron Dennis made to him on the morning of the Hungarian GP - the phone call that the McLaren boss is said to have made as a result of being given an ultimatum by Fernando Alonso
"On the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix, Ron rang me and said, 'I've just had Alonso in the motorhome and he says he's got information and he's threatening to give it to the Federation'," said Mosley. "So I said, 'What did you say Ron?' and he said, 'I said, go on and hand it over.'
"I said, 'Ron, you said exactly the right thing.' And then Ron said, 'But there isn't any information.' So I said, 'So it's an empty threat?' and he replied: 'Yes, a completely empty threat. There is no information, there is nothing to come out. I can assure you that if there was something I would have told you.'
...............
After reading this, I think Team McLaren had nothing do do with the spying. This was all a scheme cooked up soully by Alonso & De La Rosa, both Spanish, to give Alonso a leg up on Hamilton and Ferrari. Fernando will do anything to repeat as World Champion. This was the type of behaver that got Schumacher in trouble while he was driving.
Alonso is in the first year of a 3 year contract. After this, I can see Ron Dennis making him sit out for the remainder of his contract. Maybe, sweeping the floors of the McLaren garage.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=32795
Speaking to British broadcaster ITV ahead of today's qualifying session, Mosley described the phone call that Ron Dennis made to him on the morning of the Hungarian GP - the phone call that the McLaren boss is said to have made as a result of being given an ultimatum by Fernando Alonso
"On the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix, Ron rang me and said, 'I've just had Alonso in the motorhome and he says he's got information and he's threatening to give it to the Federation'," said Mosley. "So I said, 'What did you say Ron?' and he said, 'I said, go on and hand it over.'
"I said, 'Ron, you said exactly the right thing.' And then Ron said, 'But there isn't any information.' So I said, 'So it's an empty threat?' and he replied: 'Yes, a completely empty threat. There is no information, there is nothing to come out. I can assure you that if there was something I would have told you.'
...............
After reading this, I think Team McLaren had nothing do do with the spying. This was all a scheme cooked up soully by Alonso & De La Rosa, both Spanish, to give Alonso a leg up on Hamilton and Ferrari. Fernando will do anything to repeat as World Champion. This was the type of behaver that got Schumacher in trouble while he was driving.
Alonso is in the first year of a 3 year contract. After this, I can see Ron Dennis making him sit out for the remainder of his contract. Maybe, sweeping the floors of the McLaren garage.
Last edited by alnielsen; 09-15-2007 at 10:20 AM.
09-15-2007, 11:07 AM
#35
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Just wow. Anyone with any sense can see what Alonso and De La Rosa were up to. I will be surprised if Alonso is driving on Sundays for MM next year.
09-16-2007, 04:08 AM
#37
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With the new info that has come out, now I'll agree that the team has it out for Alonso. But why would you think Alonso and de la Rosa made up the thing about testing the substance in the fuel? I don't believe they made any of it up. Remember that Coughlan also had an email with de la Rosa discussing some Ferrari setups that was equally incriminating as the emails between de la Rosa and Alonso. Alonso forced Ron Dennis to pre-empt his bluff and go ahead and send all the emails to the FIA but Dennis must have known what was contained in the emails. I'll bet Dennis tried to down-play McLaren's testing of Ferrari's setups during the FIA hearings. I'll bet Dennis did not claim to the FIA that Alonso and de la Rosa's emails were falsified. So the ultimate blame still goes to Coughlan, but I agree Alonso's blackmail attempt has finished him with McLaren after this year.
However, this year is not finished and I believe the team will do everything to give Alonso a fair shot at winning the championship. If anything weird goes on with Alonso's car, McLaren knows Alonso and all his fans will attack unrelentlessly. Thus, McLaren must do everything to make sure Alonso's car has no mechanical failures for the remaining 4 races or weird setup issues. That way if Alonso fails to capture the championship, he would only have his driving to blame.
Let's not forget that McLaren did a mind-**** to Alonso from the beginning of the season. Alonso's paranoia and anger is warranted. Any person in this forum to be subjected to that stuff would react similarly. You have to admit that Alonso has had good reason to be pissed and paranoid with McLaren, even though you may not agree with how Alonso has expressed his anger and paranoia.
I think Hamilton has been a weasel by purposefully manipulating the McLaren crew and the public with calculated charisma. I still look to Alonso to secure the championship.
However, this year is not finished and I believe the team will do everything to give Alonso a fair shot at winning the championship. If anything weird goes on with Alonso's car, McLaren knows Alonso and all his fans will attack unrelentlessly. Thus, McLaren must do everything to make sure Alonso's car has no mechanical failures for the remaining 4 races or weird setup issues. That way if Alonso fails to capture the championship, he would only have his driving to blame.
Let's not forget that McLaren did a mind-**** to Alonso from the beginning of the season. Alonso's paranoia and anger is warranted. Any person in this forum to be subjected to that stuff would react similarly. You have to admit that Alonso has had good reason to be pissed and paranoid with McLaren, even though you may not agree with how Alonso has expressed his anger and paranoia.
I think Hamilton has been a weasel by purposefully manipulating the McLaren crew and the public with calculated charisma. I still look to Alonso to secure the championship.
09-16-2007, 09:52 PM
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...Let's not forget that McLaren did a mind-**** to Alonso from the beginning of the season. Alonso's paranoia and anger is warranted. Any person in this forum to be subjected to that stuff would react similarly. You have to admit that Alonso has had good reason to be pissed and paranoid with McLaren, even though you may not agree with how Alonso has expressed his anger and paranoia.
IMHO all that Alonso has achived at such an early age has skewed his psyche to the point where nothing must be allowed to challenge him. Check his behavior/ comments after the Euro GP this year. "I fought the world!" come on dude you came out on top of a slight wheel banging incident with Fillipe Massa, arguably the weakest of the 4 title contenders this year particularly in wheel to wheel duels.
Alonso may go on to win the title this year, who knows, as the next few tracks are a mix of point 'n squirt (fav Mclaren) & quick flowy/ Tilkesque (fav Ferrari). I can say at this point my money is on the Finn. Unfortunately, most of the action and intriugue is likely to take place off-track as it has all season.
09-17-2007, 01:09 AM
#39
http://www.f1technical.net/news/7082
“One hundred million dollars is a large sum of money but in such a serious case any fine has to be large enough to deter similar behaviour in the future whilst remaining proportionate to the resources of the team.
“Just over half the money from this fine will go to the competing Formula One teams. Each competing team will move up one place with McLaren now taking 11th position in this year's Championship.
“The World Motor Sport Council will be invited to distribute the remainder to the FIA's national sporting authorities world-wide for them to spend on helping young drivers to progress in circuit racing and rallies. This will be the first time the FIA has had such a budget available.
09-17-2007, 01:29 PM
#41
This doesn't fit with your statement.
09-17-2007, 08:18 PM
#42
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i seriously doubt mclaren will pay that 100 million judgement against them, they will appeal that and they will probably end up paying just a fraction as a settlement. still very sad for racing.
09-17-2007, 10:44 PM
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09-18-2007, 04:43 PM
#47
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Also, I believe the fine includes what they would have earned for the manufacturer's championship, correct? . . . so no, they will not have to pay the full $100M regardless of appeals.
09-19-2007, 03:28 AM
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If they can't win the manufacturer's championship, then isn't that a penalty as it is? Why would the FIA then tack on what they would have earned but now won't be able to earn?
09-19-2007, 06:59 AM
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Got this in an email this morning. Not sure what site it originated on:
Ruh roh, Alonso. Did we go a little too far this time?
Originally Posted by early93viper
Lawyers start work on Alonso's McLaren exit
Sep.18 (GMM) The wheels are now in motion for the early conclusion of Fernando Alonso's McLaren contract, according to reports. The German daily 'Bild' on Tuesday said the team's lawyers are now working on ending the deal, after Spaniard Alonso's relationship with McLaren reached a new low following the espionage affair and claims of lying and extortion in Belgium. "Adios, Alonso!" Bild exclaimed.
The news brings a fresh perspective to team boss Ron Dennis' admission at Spa-Francorchamps that he is seeking "closure" after one of the most difficult seasons in his 40 year career in racing.
"Part of our closure will be to take all the controversy out of the team," the Briton said, adding that any variation to any driver contract for next year would be "by mutual agreement".
It is believed that Alonso will return to Renault, where under the guidance of his mentor Flavio Briatore he secured back to back titles in 2005 and 2006.
The 26-year-old's McLaren contract was to run to the end of 2008 and also included an option for a third year.
Sep.18 (GMM) The wheels are now in motion for the early conclusion of Fernando Alonso's McLaren contract, according to reports. The German daily 'Bild' on Tuesday said the team's lawyers are now working on ending the deal, after Spaniard Alonso's relationship with McLaren reached a new low following the espionage affair and claims of lying and extortion in Belgium. "Adios, Alonso!" Bild exclaimed.
The news brings a fresh perspective to team boss Ron Dennis' admission at Spa-Francorchamps that he is seeking "closure" after one of the most difficult seasons in his 40 year career in racing.
"Part of our closure will be to take all the controversy out of the team," the Briton said, adding that any variation to any driver contract for next year would be "by mutual agreement".
It is believed that Alonso will return to Renault, where under the guidance of his mentor Flavio Briatore he secured back to back titles in 2005 and 2006.
The 26-year-old's McLaren contract was to run to the end of 2008 and also included an option for a third year.
09-19-2007, 07:52 AM
#50
Publicly, McLaren is saying that he will stay at least till the end of his contract. But, with this fine, can McLaren afford him on the payroll? With all the team problems does he want to stay? Can McLaren stay competitive to the point where they can have a chance at the Drivers Championship for the next couple of years? I can see this play out where he does leave.
The next question is, where does he go? Ferrari and McLaren have been the only top tier teams. Ferrari isn't going to take him. If I was a team boss, I would have to think a long time before coming to a decision on this. I can only see Renault taking him back.
The next question is, where does he go? Ferrari and McLaren have been the only top tier teams. Ferrari isn't going to take him. If I was a team boss, I would have to think a long time before coming to a decision on this. I can only see Renault taking him back.