DARKMAZ8

Japan has had one for over a year and all we get to do is watch and dream. Will mazda finally spill the beans at the Detroit autoshow this year? I'm a patient guy but we need an all out sports car 8.

I saw the pics of the one in irvine california. Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come.

Mugatu

iTrader: (1)

yeah but the Japanese version has no HP increases. all they have is the mazdaspeed kit (which we all have access to), plus fancy suspension and flywheel mods...nothing more.

what we all want is a Mazdaspeed version with forced induction.

Pkskull77

AGREED! Don't give us body kits, give us ponies!

playdoh43

dont underestimate those suspension kits and areo kits, the stiffer suspension significantly improves the handling and cornering ability of the rx8. hope they do come out with a FI kit though, it would help out the rx8's overall performance by a lot. we'll know this october at the tokyo auto show.

DARKMAZ8

To be honest I'd be happy if mazda just gave us more power n/a. FI is great and all but I really like n/a for those hot summer track days. But yeah I wouldn't complain if Mazda came out with a FI kit. I just hope the price is right.

I'm starting to think that mazda can't FI the rotary anymore due to the heat and cat/emission failures.

DARKMAZ8

I don't know about the aero kit but the suspension, flywheel, shifter, clutch, chassis stiffning, ect. would definatly make a huge difference on a track.

I thought that the tokyo auto show already showcased the ms8 two years ago. I might be wrong though. I think that the american varient will be at the detroit show next year.

playdoh43

mazda is supposedly showing a new rotorary coupe concept at the tokyo auto show, possibly rx7 or a coupe version of rx8. according to autoweek.com

Pkskull77

Whatever the case, it better have some more power, or you can bet the rotary engine will die with the 8.

Ike

With the regular RX-8 only selling around 1k a month, unless most of the R&D is mostly done and we just don't know it, I don't think it'll ever happen. If they did do it and added FI I'd be excited, but I also wouldn't even consider buying one. It'll have a gas guzzler tax + gas prices are insane right now, Mazda will have one hell of a time getting it to pass emissions, and it will also be iffy in the reliability department in most peoples eyes (including mine) even if it turns out to be reliable.

DARKMAZ8

If it goes with the mazdaspeed trend, Turbo will definately be a big part of the 8. The big problem will be emissions/smog tests. If anything, I wouldn't expect a huge hp difference. Probably 30whp max. I would be happy with 270-280 hp. Hopefully it will have 180+ torque to go along with it.

Aoshi Shinomori

I thought the Japanese version did have a few more ponies, 10 or 15 or something with "increased throttle response." Something like that. Either way, I'd love to see a factory FI version of the RX8. That would be teh greetness.

playdoh43

i think its not really a technical barrier but a economical one thats keeping FI from not only the rx8 but 350Z and S2000 as well. Its not too hard to pass the US emissions these days, much easier than to get good gas mileage out of the rotary engine with current tecnologies. But these are technical issues that can be solved with R&D, and R&D cost money, which leads to my next point...

In the end it comes down to whether its economically feasible to introduce a $45k-50k sports car. Its not just about simply bolting on a turbo, they need to retool the internals and redesign certain aspect of the engine, transmission etc in order to work well with a turbo while boosting the price of the car significantly upward. Chances are, at 45-50k they wont sell very well to justify the amount of money that needs to be invested to develop a FI rx8 When that money could be invested else where on products that would sell to the masses. Lets not forget the reason that 350z and rx8 has experienced sucess is because they are priced much lower than the rx7, 300ZX, supra in the 90s. So i dont think we will see a factory FI rx8.

I should note that Toyota, Honda and Nissan are currently trying to get around this by introducing their high performance sports cars under their luxury brands (Lexus LFA, Infiniti Skyline GT-R, NSX) where high prices are more common under those brands. Unfortunately Mazda currently dosnt have a luxury line. a 50k mazda will have a very hard time at succeeding in the market.

DARKMAZ8

I really think it's just the fact that the rx8 cat is prone to fail. The added heat from a turbo would most definately increase failure. This was the main reason why mazda dropped hp #'s to begin with. Mazda had to run super rich to keep the cat cool.

An 8 turbo will sell because it still has great daily driving features. So making a limited ms 8 turbo would be a bright Idea. Remember that those early 90's cars were 45-50k in the early 90's. If you add inflation, it's more like 60-65k these days.

playdoh43

its easy to speculate whether a 45-50k mazda sports car will sell, its a whole other matter when you have to spend you own corporate dollars to take such a risk.
not to mantion the oppurtunity cost of investing that money else where on something like a new large size sedan to go up vs avalon and maxima or on hybrid technology among many other things that will yield much more return compared to a niche market limited production high priced sports car. realistically not too many people can afford a 45-50k car.

DARKMAZ8

I don't think mazda ever made any money off of the rotary. It's pretty much a loss leader for them. Gets ppl in the doors.

playdoh43

wrong, rx8 has never been sold at loss. it has generated consistent revenue since its debute. being a niche market car, the profit margin is relativelyl small compared to mass sellers such as the mazda 6, but under todays modern business models, when a car sells at a loss, it will be discontinued.

DARKMAZ8

If you read my post correctly you would see that I said rotary not rx8. Sure, the rx8 is a success but Mazda is far from making a profit from all the r&d they put in to developing the rotary. It's simply an enthusiast motor. Trust me, Mazda is not depending on the 8 for profit. As long as they break even, it will be considered a success.

playdoh43

there is no statistics available outside of Mazda that indicate whether they made a profit from the R&D put into the rotory engine or not. logically my hypothesis is yes, they did make a profit considering rx7 was never sold at loss. Mazda enjoyed healthy returns on the rx7 for many years. Mazda simply pulled it off the market due to rising oppurtunity cost of allocating the production capacity else where as result of slow sales of the rx7.

Mazda depend on every one of their product including rx8 for profit. car companies dosnt introduce cars to the market unless they expect profit. They will not put out an expensive sports car that could sell at a loss, just to get people in the door. They certainly wouldnt make a FI rx8 unless they expect it to make a profit and justify the oppurtunity costs. its a very risky venture with millions of dollars at stake compared to sure fire investments on things such as hybrid technologies and other mass market cars. Its always easy for someone to say a certain product will succeed, its a lot harder when its millions of your own corporate dollars at stake in a high risk situation in a dynamic market environment.

StealthFox

i've given up on a MS8 a long time ago, with the limited edition MS8 in japan, and how it was equipped, i HIGHLY doubt it will come to america, and even more than that the chance of FI is out of the question, too much R&D for sale to just one market. if any one market got the premium, it would be japan, because japanese companies accomdate to japanese customers better than US customers for some reason in terms of product selection(i figure because the japanese are so picky with thier cars) even though the US is one of the largest world auto markets.

playdoh43

its not that Japanses companies accomodate to Japanese customers better than US customers. its just that the market landscape in Japan is different from the US. Theres significantly higher demand for performance cars and a much higher percentage of auto enthusiasts relative to the total population than the US. Lets not forget the top selling automobiles in the US are trucks. The companies are simply trying their best to maximize profit by adapting to the demands of individual markets.

DARKMAZ8

If you read up on the history of the rotary, Mazda was the only company that got it to work reliably in passenger vehicles. What you clearly don't understand is that it took years for mazda to accomplish this. During this time Mazda engineers were stumped on many different occasions and wanted to quit r&d on the rotary altogether. It was the passion of mazdas sports car heritage that kept it alive. Mazda, is a company that specialized in light weight sports cars. The rotary would give mazda a clear advantage because it was lightweight and can be mounted behind the front axles for premium handling capabilities. Mazda might have sold every rx car ever made but they didn't factor the years of r&d into the bottom line. What killed the 3rd generation in north america was not only the price tag but the amount of engines they had to replace via factory warrentee. It was quite clear that the FD was too advanced for our shores at that point in time.

playdoh43

I do hope you understand one basic fact of how pricing works, the R&D cost is included in the final product price

playdoh43

actually we are getting off topic here, what youre saying dosnt have much to do with whether theres going to be a FI rx8.

DARKMAZ8

Well, all I got to say is that the piston engine has been around since 1690 and Wankel started the rotary in 1924. I think it's safe to say that Mazda went far and beyond expectations where the rotary is concerned. Mazda's rotary endeavors are not always about making a profit. They just love making rotary sports cars and get gratification just by ppl knowing that they are the only manufacturer to have rotary powered cars.

As far as the ms8, I beleive it's coming here but I still beleive it will be in N/A form....unfortunatly.

DARKMAZ8

ummmm not always my young friend. R&D costs will be fowarded until a profit can be determined and this can be spread for years or even decades for that matter.