Musings on sports car market
#26
what's all the arguments about?
just turbo an rx8.
if u're worried about mpg and such, just drop an ls1 or ls7 to the either rx7 or rx8 chassy.
if u're into lightweight, 13b in a miata or ls7 in an rx7? well just a thought.
any above combination should smoke most cars mentioned and made.
just turbo an rx8.
if u're worried about mpg and such, just drop an ls1 or ls7 to the either rx7 or rx8 chassy.
if u're into lightweight, 13b in a miata or ls7 in an rx7? well just a thought.
any above combination should smoke most cars mentioned and made.
#27
Super Moderator
I think I have said it before...but from MAZDA I would like to see a very light weight MX-5/Miata with say a 12B RENESIS or even 13B.
The problem would be what effect would it have on existing MX-5 sales and RX-8 sales with another rotary engined car, we have not seen more than one rotary model for over 25 years now...so I don't like my new years wish!
Remember the RX-3,4 and 5.
The problem would be what effect would it have on existing MX-5 sales and RX-8 sales with another rotary engined car, we have not seen more than one rotary model for over 25 years now...so I don't like my new years wish!
Remember the RX-3,4 and 5.
#28
Go Texas Longhorns!
You can make a safe , lightweight car that doesn't need super exotic materials.
The biggest issue with an aluminum frame other than cost, is its much harder to repair. A solution to that would be to make the frame from steel alloys and then bolt aluminum reinforcements where needed. Then, and this is key, everything that hangs of the frame is made of aluminum, doors, hood, body panels, subframe, etc...which essentially are things that are replacable.
they heaviest parts of the 8 are the doors, exhaust system, wheels/tires, PPF, and subframe, all of which could be lightened.
The biggest issue with an aluminum frame other than cost, is its much harder to repair. A solution to that would be to make the frame from steel alloys and then bolt aluminum reinforcements where needed. Then, and this is key, everything that hangs of the frame is made of aluminum, doors, hood, body panels, subframe, etc...which essentially are things that are replacable.
they heaviest parts of the 8 are the doors, exhaust system, wheels/tires, PPF, and subframe, all of which could be lightened.
#29
I totally agree, it's all about weight. A sport coupe, much less a sports car, should NEVER be over 3000lbs. I don't particularly consider the RX8 light either.
Anyway the quickest way to drop some weight off production cars is to go with less stereo speakers and amps, and get rid of some of the sound deadening materials and creature comforts like carpet.
Anyway the quickest way to drop some weight off production cars is to go with less stereo speakers and amps, and get rid of some of the sound deadening materials and creature comforts like carpet.
#31
DaveCm
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central North Carolina
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PoorCollegeKid
It all depends on the power:weight ratio. For a 3:2 power:weight ratio, this is true, but no car I know of has this kind of power:weght, except for the purpose-built pro drag racing cars. For a car like the RX8, you'd need to add a little less than 8hp for every 100lbs you add to the car to maintain the same quickness.
.
.
#32
DaveCm
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central North Carolina
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RX8Maine
You're still spending 50 grand either way. Maybe less for a used M3 or a REALLY old NSX. Late model NSX's (1997+ which gets you more HP) with less than 40,000 miles are selling for around 50-55k.
#33
Registered
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by brillo
the heaviest parts of the 8 are the doors, exhaust system, wheels/tires, PPF, and subframe, all of which could be lightened.
#34
DaveCm
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central North Carolina
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mwc
I second your comment on wheels/tires. So many automakers, including Mazda, don't have the courage to stand up to the current fashion of putting large, bling wheels on their cars. Even the MX-5 Miata has suffered from this trend. There are always trade-offs (i.e. tire sidewall width), but you definitely pay a penalty when you put on large "wagon wheels" with all of the mass pushed out to the outer diameter of the wheel. That really increases the rotational inertia. Plus, you risk adding a lot of unsprung weight.
#35
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: I am a leaf in the wind...
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by DaveCM203
I took a 97 NSX in on trade once and we did not give him any where near 50g for the car. In fact, it was only $17,500.
That just comes to proove that you always get screwed when you trade in a car (at least when it comes to getting fair market value out of the car, it still is a LOT less of a hassle than trying to sell it onthe street to then buy another car)
What you fail to mention is what the car sold for when your Dealer turned arround and sold it (I'm pretty darn sure $34K to $37K since that is the KBB on it)
Unless the car was beat to hell- I doubt that was the case, since you were actually considering keeping the car yourself.
so you made a $20K profit on it (by the way, KBB trade in value puts it at $25K so basically you uversold whatever the poor guy bought by about $8k)
I trully hope the poor sap LOVES what he bought, since you basically fleeced him for $28K extra on the trade/purchase. (damn, that's about the price of a new RX-8) Or considering that a "service charge" that must have been the most pleasant/hassle free trade/ title/registration/ tags transaction in the history of mankind
Last edited by WhiteDealershipRice; 01-02-2007 at 12:31 PM.
#37
DaveCm
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central North Carolina
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by WhiteDealershipRice
That just comes to proove that you always get screwed when you trade in a car (at least when it comes to getting fair market value out of the car, it still is a LOT less of a hassle than trying to sell it onthe street to then buy another car)
What you fail to mention is what the car sold for when your Dealer turned arround and sold it (I'm pretty darn sure $34K to $37K since that is the KBB on it)
Unless the car was beat to hell- I doubt that was the case, since you were actually considering keeping the car yourself.
so you made a $20K profit on it (by the way, KBB trade in value puts it at $25K so basically you uversold whatever the poor guy bought by about $8k)
What you fail to mention is what the car sold for when your Dealer turned arround and sold it (I'm pretty darn sure $34K to $37K since that is the KBB on it)
Unless the car was beat to hell- I doubt that was the case, since you were actually considering keeping the car yourself.
so you made a $20K profit on it (by the way, KBB trade in value puts it at $25K so basically you uversold whatever the poor guy bought by about $8k)
It does go to show you that you not only need to do your homework on the value of the car you are buying, but also know what your trade is worth. If he had done homework on the Sequoia, he would have known that we had a ton of markup. He got it from both ends.
#38
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: I am a leaf in the wind...
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
^^ Dave, I'm NOT Blaming you.
That is exactly how the game is played, And you can only go with what the management policy/numbers are at your dealership. Bottom line, you work for them, not the customer. (A lot of people fail to realize this- that is their downfall)
I am actually surprised the guy actually went ahead with that trade. You must have caught a crapload of flack during those negotiations.
And yes, if you haven't done your homework, stepping into the dealership is just begging to get fleeced.
That is exactly how the game is played, And you can only go with what the management policy/numbers are at your dealership. Bottom line, you work for them, not the customer. (A lot of people fail to realize this- that is their downfall)
I am actually surprised the guy actually went ahead with that trade. You must have caught a crapload of flack during those negotiations.
And yes, if you haven't done your homework, stepping into the dealership is just begging to get fleeced.
#39
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: La La Land
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jeffe19007
I agree the Cayman is close to ideal. I would love to see someone do a comparison between the Cayman and the Rx-8.
I know the 8 would come in second, but how far behind? Is it fordidden to compare the 8 to the Cayman in magazine-land? Are the Porsche fanboys afraid of the comparison?
And basically, what parts do I need to get to the level of the Cayman/Cayman S?
I agree that light weight is an essential part of the equation (I am a Lotus fan, with a practical streak when it comes to dollars).
I know the 8 would come in second, but how far behind? Is it fordidden to compare the 8 to the Cayman in magazine-land? Are the Porsche fanboys afraid of the comparison?
And basically, what parts do I need to get to the level of the Cayman/Cayman S?
I agree that light weight is an essential part of the equation (I am a Lotus fan, with a practical streak when it comes to dollars).
The Elise is not holding is value well on the used market and might turn into a good idea after all. Recently there was one here locally for sale exactly how I want it for $32k. That was tempting.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ASH8
Series II Technical and Trouble shooting
7
10-30-2021 12:50 PM
BigMikeATL
RX-8's For Sale/Wanted
12
05-26-2016 12:31 AM