The New BMW M5
10-30-2005, 11:01 PM
#101
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i agree (w/ DANomite). i finally got to see a cls (at costco gas of all places) and it is a damn fine looking auto. the amg version has similar stats on paper, but it's always the subjective analysis that puts bmw ahead of it's competitors (kinda like how the rx-8 wins all of it's comparisons :D )
Last edited by ECHO1; 10-30-2005 at 11:03 PM.
10-31-2005, 11:06 AM
#103
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
find a competitor that comes close, cheaper.
Hint: there isn't one.
Hint: there isn't one.
10-31-2005, 03:54 PM
#105
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by babylou
Caddy CTS-V; same handling, 100 less ponies, 1/2 the price and likely more reliable. Personally I don't care about the power so much but for those that do for $15k more you can have 750 ponies on the Caddy. Plus you are keeping your money at home.
Edit: nevermind, looks like it and the SLR-V get a 443hp supercharged Northstar.
Last edited by therm8; 10-31-2005 at 03:59 PM.
10-31-2005, 04:01 PM
#106
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
The CTS-V wasn't even as good as the old M5, let alone this one.
10-31-2005, 04:11 PM
#107
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For me this M5 and CTS-V are both ugly--but having to chose between the two I'd take the M5. And it was built to compete with the M5--just not this 500HP M5. Me personally I'd take an E55 or XJR and call it a day if I needed a fast sedan.
Oh and Ike was saying alot of wrong stuff about the Cayman and 911 Turbo for the record. The Boxster S is not as fast as the Cayman S and it will not handle as well either. The Cayman is the ideal track car and its more practical than a Boxster. The 911 Turbo is capable of sub 13sec 1/4mi runs as well.
Oh and Ike was saying alot of wrong stuff about the Cayman and 911 Turbo for the record. The Boxster S is not as fast as the Cayman S and it will not handle as well either. The Cayman is the ideal track car and its more practical than a Boxster. The 911 Turbo is capable of sub 13sec 1/4mi runs as well.
10-31-2005, 04:15 PM
#108
Originally Posted by therm8
It was and is 1/2 the price of this one. But not 1/2 the car. Considering it wasn't built to compete with the M5, I'd say it does a pretty good job of it.
It's often said that the last 1% of any effort, is the hardest to accomplish, and will make the biggest difference. It can seperate greatness from mediocrity. That idea is blatantly obvious in the automotive world. The CTS-V could be 99% of an M5, but it's that last one percent that makes the M5 such a great car.
Last edited by BlueEyes; 10-31-2005 at 04:18 PM.
10-31-2005, 04:20 PM
#109
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
Look, the E39 M5 is a better car. It is one of the greatest cars of all time. The CTS-V does not compete in anything but performance. THe old M5 is special, the CTS-V is not.
It's often said that the last 1% of any effort, will make the biggest difference. That idea is blatantly obvious in the automotive world. The CTS-V could be 99% of an M5, but it's that last one percent that makes the M5 such a great car.
It's often said that the last 1% of any effort, will make the biggest difference. That idea is blatantly obvious in the automotive world. The CTS-V could be 99% of an M5, but it's that last one percent that makes the M5 such a great car.
10-31-2005, 04:21 PM
#110
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The CTS-V was a bold and valiant effort by GM--and if you like the styling then its ok--it has a nice price, decent tranny, and nice exhaust note--but I can't see why anyone would choose this over many other offerings.
10-31-2005, 04:25 PM
#111
Originally Posted by therm8
I didn't say the Caddy was the M5's equal. I said for 1/2 the price it comes close. And for those who don't have the scratch to drop on the BMW, the Caddy is a nice substitute. Luxury has come way up on the '06 model. It still won't equal the M5, but it is a significant improvement for the CTS-V.
The new M5 is in a league of it's own.
10-31-2005, 04:37 PM
#114
Bummed, but bring on OU!
The Maserati
Audi RS6 (due out late '06 from what I've read).
Jag XKR.
Benz CLS AMG.
Based on the whole package. Since performance is not very important according to the CTS-v discussion. Not that those cars perform poorly.
Audi RS6 (due out late '06 from what I've read).
Jag XKR.
Benz CLS AMG.
Based on the whole package. Since performance is not very important according to the CTS-v discussion. Not that those cars perform poorly.
10-31-2005, 04:45 PM
#115
Of course performance is important. All I said was that the CTS-V came close to the old M5, but that's all it came close in. It's light years behind the new one.
The RS6 will be fat, and handle poorly in comparison. Just like the old one. Plus Quattro is a piece of crap. It might be as fast in a straight line, but, I'll be shocked if it keeps up on a track.
The XKR is a coupe, the XJR is infinitely slower.
The CLS AMG is enromous. AMG is pretty shitty IMO. Other than stuffing huge engines in cars, they don't seem to be able to pull together a total package.
The RS6 will be fat, and handle poorly in comparison. Just like the old one. Plus Quattro is a piece of crap. It might be as fast in a straight line, but, I'll be shocked if it keeps up on a track.
The XKR is a coupe, the XJR is infinitely slower.
The CLS AMG is enromous. AMG is pretty shitty IMO. Other than stuffing huge engines in cars, they don't seem to be able to pull together a total package.
10-31-2005, 04:53 PM
#116
Bummed, but bring on OU!
All close enough to be in the same league however.
The M5 is still a heavyweight at just over 2 tons.
Btw, this is the most fun I've had since political threads were abolished. And I'm moving on toward 1000 posts
The M5 is still a heavyweight at just over 2 tons.
Btw, this is the most fun I've had since political threads were abolished. And I'm moving on toward 1000 posts
10-31-2005, 05:21 PM
#117
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The only real competitor I see for the new M5 is the Quattroporte that is going to come out with the 5.7L Ferrari V12. The other cars mentioned in this thread aren't even worth comparing to the new M5.
10-31-2005, 06:01 PM
#118
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In terms of utility the STS-V with 460+HP, the E55 with 469HP and the rediculous S65 with over 600HP I suppose--but none of those are spot on competitors. They surely don't handle as well as the M5. In terms of straight line speed the S65 is probably the fastest--but its also nearly $100K more.
GAS GUZZLER LOL
10-31-2005, 06:28 PM
#121
yea...certain states require a gas guzzler fee for cars that have a certain amount of mpg usage.
http://solstice.crest.org/efficiency...ons/ch2-3.html
read it...it's interesting.
http://solstice.crest.org/efficiency...ons/ch2-3.html
read it...it's interesting.
Last edited by Im_DANomite; 10-31-2005 at 06:32 PM.
10-31-2005, 06:55 PM
#122
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
The only real competitor I see for the new M5 is the Quattroporte that is going to come out with the 5.7L Ferrari V12. The other cars mentioned in this thread aren't even worth comparing to the new M5.
10-31-2005, 07:46 PM
#124
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Wait a min. You have $100k to go car shopping. How many of us are going to buy the new M5? Be honest. You can buy 1 can or you can buy 10 cars. You can also buy mods or whatever. $100k to do whatever you like. You want a Bangled M5 with SMG for $96k + tax?
Argue the merits of the car all you want. Ferraris are wonderful cars... perform beautifully, but I'd probably never buy one if I had the money. The M5 is an even harder sell. No one is arguing the technical merits of the car. On paper and in reviews it's an evolution from the previous M5... better in all ways. I would love to test drive it and see. But I'd never buy it based on value... and that's a personal thing. All that matters in the end is your personal opinion for you. For me... the car is overpriced. I don't like the Bangle 5 Series to start with. I hate SMG... clutch and double-H please. iDrive... you can keep it! The M6 is damn sexy, but the magazines are right... the M5 has more room and almost exactly the same performance... better value. With $100k I could buy a Porsche 911 Carrera ($71k) and a Subaru Legacy GT Limited ($29k). I could go for a Porsche Cayman S ($59k) and Lexus IS250 (I don't drive auto) ($31k) with change leftover for mods. The Infiniti M45 Sport ($50k) is there if you want 5 Series size (better than the Lexus GS even according to JDM mags). There are all kinds of mixing and matching you can do for a 4-door sedan daily driver and a weekend sports car.... some even cheaper than cars mentioned above... like the new MX-5.
BMW will sell some of this car, but I would really like to see how well it's going to do. I think that they have priced themselves out of the market. Maybe I'm wrong... maybe there really are enough people that will buy one. Ford had the sense to not build another upper SVT Mustang beyond the GT500. They said that frankly no one wants to pay $55-60k MSRP for a Ford Mustang... even with IRS, high quality interior and 600hp.
Who wants to pay $100k for a factory tuned 5 Series BMW? You might say you. Good for you. Not me. The M5 is not an exotic, but it sure as hell is approaching that price. Maybe that is BMW's goal... but read the previous paragraph.
Argue the merits of the car all you want. Ferraris are wonderful cars... perform beautifully, but I'd probably never buy one if I had the money. The M5 is an even harder sell. No one is arguing the technical merits of the car. On paper and in reviews it's an evolution from the previous M5... better in all ways. I would love to test drive it and see. But I'd never buy it based on value... and that's a personal thing. All that matters in the end is your personal opinion for you. For me... the car is overpriced. I don't like the Bangle 5 Series to start with. I hate SMG... clutch and double-H please. iDrive... you can keep it! The M6 is damn sexy, but the magazines are right... the M5 has more room and almost exactly the same performance... better value. With $100k I could buy a Porsche 911 Carrera ($71k) and a Subaru Legacy GT Limited ($29k). I could go for a Porsche Cayman S ($59k) and Lexus IS250 (I don't drive auto) ($31k) with change leftover for mods. The Infiniti M45 Sport ($50k) is there if you want 5 Series size (better than the Lexus GS even according to JDM mags). There are all kinds of mixing and matching you can do for a 4-door sedan daily driver and a weekend sports car.... some even cheaper than cars mentioned above... like the new MX-5.
BMW will sell some of this car, but I would really like to see how well it's going to do. I think that they have priced themselves out of the market. Maybe I'm wrong... maybe there really are enough people that will buy one. Ford had the sense to not build another upper SVT Mustang beyond the GT500. They said that frankly no one wants to pay $55-60k MSRP for a Ford Mustang... even with IRS, high quality interior and 600hp.
Who wants to pay $100k for a factory tuned 5 Series BMW? You might say you. Good for you. Not me. The M5 is not an exotic, but it sure as hell is approaching that price. Maybe that is BMW's goal... but read the previous paragraph.
10-31-2005, 08:01 PM
#125
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
Of course performance is important. All I said was that the CTS-V came close to the old M5, but that's all it came close in. It's light years behind the new one.
The RS6 will be fat, and handle poorly in comparison. Just like the old one. Plus Quattro is a piece of crap. It might be as fast in a straight line, but, I'll be shocked if it keeps up on a track.
The XKR is a coupe, the XJR is infinitely slower.
The CLS AMG is enromous. AMG is pretty shitty IMO. Other than stuffing huge engines in cars, they don't seem to be able to pull together a total package.
The RS6 will be fat, and handle poorly in comparison. Just like the old one. Plus Quattro is a piece of crap. It might be as fast in a straight line, but, I'll be shocked if it keeps up on a track.
The XKR is a coupe, the XJR is infinitely slower.
The CLS AMG is enromous. AMG is pretty shitty IMO. Other than stuffing huge engines in cars, they don't seem to be able to pull together a total package.
I know of several old e39 M5 owners who traded for the current E55 because they thought the new 5 was ugly. And then there is also my favorite, the 997 911 S. While not a direct competitor, it's also warrants consideration. As cars like the M5 are for people who'd like to have Porsche performance but need a sedan. Most of those folks don't really use the handling potential of the super sedans anyway. They just want to be in the lap of luxury and blow someone away on the freeway every once in a while.
I test drove the previous M5 and it was too heavy for my liking, the new one is even heavier. Even if I could afford an M5, I'd prefer something more lightweight. As good as the M5 is, its really just too heavy as a serious track car.