New Camaro and Challenger
12-11-2006, 03:45 PM
#26
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
Camaro looks pretty nice. Any chances of the Firebird ever coming back?
12-11-2006, 04:25 PM
#28
jersey fresh
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jedi54
Camaro looks pretty nice. Any chances of the Firebird ever coming back?
. but i bet pontiac sets up the GTO as the pontiac version of the camaro.Also the camaro was hardly underpowered. It should come with 400 hp, thats what the gto has, anything less will be noticed buy the buyers. People realize the american hp's numbers, and if the new camaro has less than 400 but the ls2 gto had 400 something not right. plus buy then the vette will have over 400 for its base model.
12-11-2006, 04:37 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CAM427R
I'm pretty sure the 02 Corvette had 375HP while the Camaro with the same engine made 315 according to GM.
12-11-2006, 05:10 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
See, GM lists them differently, but I did figure it was one of those things they didn't want their top of the line car and their 20 grand car sharing the same horsepower numbers. I didn't know the Camaro actually dyno'd more. I haven't seen a dyno curve for an 02 Corvette.
I was under the impression it was a dumbed-down LS1, but it being the same engine makes more sense.
Also, the new Camaro and CHallenger will have full-independent setups, no axles anywhere, which is a leg up on the Mustang right there.
I was under the impression it was a dumbed-down LS1, but it being the same engine makes more sense.
Also, the new Camaro and CHallenger will have full-independent setups, no axles anywhere, which is a leg up on the Mustang right there.
12-11-2006, 05:11 PM
#31
doin' the bull dance
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Quahog, RI
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Tirminyl
Fixed.
I'll take either. But not over the 8. Coulda bought more power when I got my 8. Went for the styling & driving feel then, and would do it again when these 2 beasts actually come out.
But I've gotta agree - from concept to production can bring lots of changes . . .
Oh, and I love both. Maybe by then I can just add to my car collection rather than having to consider one vs. the other.
Last edited by dmc27; 12-11-2006 at 05:14 PM.
12-11-2006, 05:15 PM
#32
Fire-Spewing Maniac
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd wager money that Chevy will put about a base model with a V6. They just won't move the volume they need to otherwise to make a good business case. Goingt o be very insteresting in a couple of years:
12-11-2006, 05:23 PM
#33
jersey fresh
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Nocturn
The Camaro and Vette had the same LS1 engine, both put out the same power, the reason the Camaro registered more on a dyno is because the Corvette has an IRS suspension that absorbs more horespower than the Camaros old live Axle. .
the 02 camaro ls1 had 310hp, the SS had 325. the 02 vette had 350.
12-11-2006, 05:29 PM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dillsrotary
wrong....
the 02 camaro ls1 had 310hp, the SS had 325. the 02 vette had 350.
the 02 camaro ls1 had 310hp, the SS had 325. the 02 vette had 350.
12-12-2006, 12:15 PM
#36
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bindon
Dont forget the new GT-R!
The GTR will probably be a great machine but will be about 2x as much as a next Camaro. That is why Nissan has the 350z which is due for a redesign in 2009. That is the affordable sportscar while the GTR is the Vette/NSX halo car for the brand.
I want to see the new G35 coupe which wouldn't surprise me if it showed up at the NAIAS in a month.
With all these new performance machines coming out in 1-3 years I can't see Mazda (Zoom-Zoom) resting their hat on the current RX8. They will make a competitor, just maybe not with a rotary. How could they be a sport-oriented car company without a viable sportscar?
12-12-2006, 12:31 PM
#37
Follower of CHRIST!!!!!!!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^AMEN, is it really ZOOM ZOOM....or FLUFF FLUFF pretenders? Don't get me wrong, Mazda makes some great balanced/handling cars that are nice to look at and have good quality but the ZOOM ZOOM needs more UMPHHHHH!
12-12-2006, 01:34 PM
#38
doin' the bull dance
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Quahog, RI
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But that seems to be what Mazda's entire zoom zoom campaign is about - fun to drive machines for every driver. Not head pinning acceleration for torque mongers. Mazda's "answer" to these beasts will likely (still) include a lower HP combined with better overall performance. And we'll face a similar choice.
These bad boys will (hopefully) be what every red blooded, meating eating American car buyer drools over: head pinning torque . . . ie American Muscle.
These bad boys will (hopefully) be what every red blooded, meating eating American car buyer drools over: head pinning torque . . . ie American Muscle.
12-12-2006, 02:42 PM
#39
Follower of CHRIST!!!!!!!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^...and nothings wrong with that! I love the overall package, a sports car that is just an all around athlete performer but Mazda seems to be about 40-60HP off the sweet spot (depending on car) in regards to HP.
12-12-2006, 04:10 PM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dillsrotary
wrong....
the 02 camaro ls1 had 310hp, the SS had 325. the 02 vette had 350.
the 02 camaro ls1 had 310hp, the SS had 325. the 02 vette had 350.
Put it this way, what difference was there between an SS Camaro and a Z28? A hood? Spoiler? None of these will net a 15HP gain. They simply changed the rating.
12-12-2006, 06:11 PM
#42
jersey fresh
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Nocturn
Thats what they were rated out, but the engines didn't put out different numbers. GM Just dropped them in without retooling anything. The Corvette put out a little more due to its superior exhaust system, but it also looses more to its IRS setup. Which is why on a dyno the two cars will register around 300-310 RWHP. Gm just altered the rated horespower on the Camaro to make the Corvette look better.
Put it this way, what difference was there between an SS Camaro and a Z28? A hood? Spoiler? None of these will net a 15HP gain. They simply changed the rating.
Put it this way, what difference was there between an SS Camaro and a Z28? A hood? Spoiler? None of these will net a 15HP gain. They simply changed the rating.
do you see the same concept with the 09 camaro, ls2 just different rating?
12-12-2006, 06:12 PM
#43
Registered
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dmc27
These bad boys will (hopefully) be what every red blooded, meating eating American car buyer drools over: head pinning torque . . . ie American Muscle.
Just above the comments on the web page is a link to an mp3 file of the Camaro concept car exhaust. I flat out enjoy it every time I hear it. Very nice.
Cheers
12-12-2006, 06:35 PM
#44
'03 Dodge Viper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: University of Maryland
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by dillsrotary
my apologizes.
do you see the same concept with the 09 camaro, ls2 just different rating?
do you see the same concept with the 09 camaro, ls2 just different rating?
GM also hasn't been shy lately about rating the GTO at 400hp with an LS2 in it.
They'll want to compete with the challenger, so it's to their advantage to rate the car at 400hp (which it actually is).
===============More GM Speculation=========================
I'm also wondering if GM will try and compete directly with the GT500. Supercharged Camaro SS anyone? I suppose they could also dump in the Z06 engine and keep it NA...but I bet they'd be smart to supercharge it.
I can hear a lot of people saying that this won't happen because GM won't let a car be faster than the Corvette. BUT - hasn't anyone seen the plans of a faster Corvette being developed? I'm at the library now and don't have time to look it up, but it's possibly being named either the stingray or corvette SS. Supercharged LS2. This should be convenient for GM because they can use the same setup in a possible Camaro SS with the boost turned down.
So...if GM did all of what I said, they'd have a 400hp Camaro to compete with the challenger (and possibly a newer mustang GT with a bigger engine - Ford will want to keep up), they'd have a 500hp Camaro SS to compete with the GT500, and they'd keep the corvette as their fastest car with the Stingray or Corvette SS or whatever they're going to call it. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I want to say this corvette under development would have 600hp.
Why don't I work for GM again?
Last edited by SlayerRX8; 12-12-2006 at 06:37 PM.
12-12-2006, 06:44 PM
#45
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New York, Northern NYC Burbs
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I read the Corvette SS (or stingray) was going to be 600+ HP and the top end Camaro (SS?) is going to be 500HP. Can't find the aritcles, but I'll keep looking.
12-12-2006, 07:06 PM
#47
jersey fresh
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i don't see the z06 engine in the SS, its 16k alone for the engine. as for a supercharger is would be cheaper but gut feeling says chevy guys love a N/A engine. tough call either way, but you can easily mod an ls2 to get 450 hp, so who knows
12-12-2006, 09:38 PM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see GM going FI on a Camaro, no precedent for it. Ford did it because they couldn't get what they wanted out of the 4.6 in the Mustang. GM could get all the power they need out of a 6.0 or even a 7.0, just not the LS7.
I also don't see the Z06 engine in the Camaro, but maybe a retuned LS2 would make a lot of sense.
Lot of speculation here, I suppose we will just have to find out. My feeling is that the Z28 will be around 400HP and the SS around 450HP. Wow we're in a HP War all over again....
In 2008 Ford is replacing the 4.6L in the Mustang GT with a new "Hurricane" 5.0L which will debut in the new Boss 302 Mustang and Bullitt Editions. They obviously realize the Challenger and Camaro will have oodles more power than their stock GT, and will be comparably priced.
I also don't see the Z06 engine in the Camaro, but maybe a retuned LS2 would make a lot of sense.
Lot of speculation here, I suppose we will just have to find out. My feeling is that the Z28 will be around 400HP and the SS around 450HP. Wow we're in a HP War all over again....
In 2008 Ford is replacing the 4.6L in the Mustang GT with a new "Hurricane" 5.0L which will debut in the new Boss 302 Mustang and Bullitt Editions. They obviously realize the Challenger and Camaro will have oodles more power than their stock GT, and will be comparably priced.
12-13-2006, 12:02 AM
#50
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Odds are the Z28 isn't going to be the same performer it was compared to the old SS. It used to be the old Z28s were the same exact car minus a few sporty options that the SS had (hood/spoiler etc). Now from what all I have herd, is that the Z28 will get the 305HP (5.3L) LS4 thats currently in the Impala SS/Grand Prix GXP. They will probably tune it up to at least 350HP, and then shove the LS2 in the SS and give it the 400HP rating.
There is also the new LS2 which is debuting pretty soon that is going to be a 6.2L and anywhere from 400-500HP depending on who you believe. The LS7 is to expensive to be put into the Camaro IMO. But lets not forget the GT500 weighs in at about 2 tons. So it won't need a the same HP to beat it.
There is also the new LS2 which is debuting pretty soon that is going to be a 6.2L and anywhere from 400-500HP depending on who you believe. The LS7 is to expensive to be put into the Camaro IMO. But lets not forget the GT500 weighs in at about 2 tons. So it won't need a the same HP to beat it.