Christianv

Depends on the carmaker and the segment. In the sport sedan segment (30-40k), the BMW 3 series is the holy grail. Many have gotten close, but its formula still remains unbeaten. Its closest competitor in terms of driving dynamics has been the G35. In the mid/high 40 - 60k segment, the 5 series is the "driver's car" benchmark.

The 70k+ sedan shopper typically wants luxury above anything else. That's MBZ. The BMW brand has always put sport ahead of luxury. That works well in other price segments, not so much in this one. This is the one segment they don't wholly own. Just look at the conspicuous absence of an M car in the 7 series.

The Lexus LS started as an S class clone. It's always been one. Lexus as a whole - with the notable exception of the IS to an extent - has been chasing MBZ since day 1. Infiniti on the other hand has BMW square in its sights.

Moostafa29

Not that impressed. The new IS is pimp though. GS is okay.

RX8-79

I sit inside and drive one all the time, unfortunately. The car is about as overrated as they come. It feels about $30k too much for what they ask, and lacks the heft and presence of even b-segment German sedans, let alone the big, high-dollar ones.

RX8-79

Clearly youve never seen the csx next to a civic.



Agreed; their success is as much a perplexing mystery as britney spears'.

DARKMAZ8

Lexus may have copied the two tone exterior but looking at the sales #'s for the initial ls400s and you'll see who is really chasing who. MBZ is a glorified chrysler my friend. MBZs quality has been **** lately and is wayyyy overpriced for what you get these days. Also, You are crazy to think that infinity is closing in on BMW. Infinitys truck like interior is a far cry from bmw. Not even gonna mention performance.

DARKMAZ8

sure buddy.

Japan8

You may not like the styling and interior, but the performance... the mags all give the G35 high ratings. The new M45 is loved by JDM magazines much more than the Lexus GS. When the 2007 new G series comes out, it's going to seriously give the new 3 Series a run for its money... especially if Infiniti continues to undercut BMW on pricing. They'll already get my vote on that one alone.

DARKMAZ8

Problem is that anyone that wants a bmw will not settle for an infinity. Infinity is lower then lexus and acura. Also, Infinity is far behind the pack where hybrid technology is concerned. You also get what you pay for.

Japan8

Hybrid technology...

Acura... FWD HONDA wannabe luxury cars...

I like BMW, but would rather buy an Infiniti. You are wrong.

The only people who buy BMW and wouldn't "settle" for an Infiniti are posers that only care about the blue and white propellor on the dash. In that case there is no convincing them otherwise.

You get what you pay for only applies when talking about getting Hyundai instead of a Mazda or Honda. In this case... you get worse service than Lexus, lower reliability and a slower car for MORE money?! yeah... tell me another one.

DARKMAZ8

We'll see what happens when oil reaches $100 a barrel.

RL is awd...

Yeah...you like bmw. I said "if you wanted a bmw".... not liked.

WTH is this nonesense? You're basically saying that all bmw drivers are posers because they didn't settle for an infinity.

Japan8

Whatever.

And how many people were crying like that in the 1970's?

I have been and still do pay more for gas than you do. Europeans pay even more. Cry me a river.

The RL isn't all their cars.;.. just the top of the line showboat. It took them how long to FINALLy release something with AWD? And they still don't have any other AWD cars or RWD cars (that aren't 2 seater sports cars).

If you wanted a BMW you'd buy a BMW. IF you wanted an Infiniti, you'd buy an Infiniti. WTF is the point of your statement?

Where did I say that? Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Anyone who buys a BMW because it's a BMW... not because it's a nice enthusiasts luxury sport sedan, etc. Pretty much the average person who does buy a BMW... they buy it because they are posers. Nothing to do with settling and everything to do with buying something just because of the name on it. I think most people can understand that concept. Why can't you?

therm8

Truthfully, I'd never heard of it til now. WtF is that thing, a luxury car for the $10-20k bracket?? I'd just buy an Accord. The new Civic is the ugliest car currently available from any manufacturer, and now there's 2 of them. It's truly a car for thoses who only want the Acura badge. Doesn't even come standard with leather. People are sad...

DARKMAZ8

Keep living in the 70's then. Just like nissan.

Want a cracker?

Ignorance is bliss my friend


So what point are you trying to make here?

Nissan/infinity has how many awd cars?(trucks don't count)

what's with all this Nissan/Infinity superiority? Just admit it, Nissan is the biggest Toyota wannabee.

Yeah, but don't you think that most infinity owners would have bought the bmw if they were priced the same? I do....

Why can't you understand that bmw has this persona for a reason. I'm sure that a bag of infinity owners are in this category as well.

Japan8

How is Nissan living in the 70's? What? You think hybrids are the future? They're a stop gap measure. Like the oil crisis in the 70's, when the political wind changes again, so will gas prices. We'll see what happens at that point in time. Emissions concerns will play a bigger role in forcing changes than gas prices.

You trash Nissan, but what the hell is BMW doing? Where are their hybrid models? I don't see a 530h model like Lexus has with the GS350h. Keep trying.

This doesn't even make any sense...


Point? You were the one trying to make a point. You were the one that brought AWD into this. I said that Acura sucks because more than 90% of their offerings are FWD only. BMW is all RWD or AWD. MB is all RWD or AWD. Infiniti is now all RWD or AWD. Lexus is almost entirely RWD or AWD (particularly with their current remake). It looks like everyone else is with the program as to what this market segment is about. Bitching about Honda/Acura on these grounds is more than reasonable.

Uh... left field. Succintly explain how and why Nissan is a Toyota wannabee? You just said that they suck because they don't offer any hybrids. Making hybrids and introducing them across your line of cars would be acting like a "Toyota wannabe".

No Nissan/Infiniti superiority. Nissan offers cars that match market expectations better than Honda does for this segment. I'd buy a Lexus IS before I'd get a TSX or TL. The Japanese hardly give Honda any respect. Only the few sports cars... NSX, S2000, Civic Type R, Integra Type R... that's it. Honda is a motorcycle company. I respect their bikes... well-built and reliable. Their cars is another story.

Uh, no. You seem to assume a lot.

I LIKE the styling of the G35 coupe a lot. I'm betting the next one in 2007 will be even more sexy. My mother loves the G35 coupe and sedan. She could care less about BMWs. My aunt has a e36 BMW. Her husband has a hard on for BMWs. My aunt would rather not buy an e90. She likes the new IS better. She also thinks the e90 is overpriced. The e90 BMW is O K. We'll see how the coupe comes out. The 5 series looks like ***... which leads to the M5 looking like *** too. The 6 series and the M6... they are sexy... I'll give BMW that. But the price... ouch. People will buy them, but to not only me (even mentioned in the magazines)... BMW seems to be getting to the point of pricing themselves out of the market.

It takes all types.

Why can't you understand the concept of "hype"? Current BMWs aren't all hype, but they're not the best thing since sliced bread either.

Don Vito

Nissan sucks.

DARKMAZ8

Bmw has been working on hydrogen power for some time now.

I have no interest in your "jdm magazine" degree. Your love for nissan is taking over this thread.

Fact is, Toyota/Lexus is the better car company end of story. I love mazdas myself but I'm not going to pretend something is better based on my biased views.

Japan8

Don Vito... right...

G35
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....ticle_id=10389
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=8

M45
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=4
http://www.automotivearticles.com/Fi...finiti_M.shtml
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=9024

Japan8

Someone BESIDES Darkmaz8 please explain to me how this became "you're a Toyota/Lexus hater and Nissan lover"? When did I say Lexus weren't good cars in this thread? Boring cars.. yes. DARKMAZ8... review the thread. I bashed HONDA/ACURA.... and how did we even end up on this thread jack? How old are you?! You got your panties all in a wad because in ANOTHER thread I totally disagreed with your opinion about the Mazdaspeed6 and alternative cars. Since then you dragged bits and pieces of that conversation into this thread and others... and now you dragging in your attempted ad hominem from another thread into this one. Can't you keep your arguments and threads straight?

Don Vito

Too much money for plastic.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

The new Infinity M, in either 6 or 8 cyclinder version, positively gives Lexus the official geriatric viewer's choice award.

The Infiniti M, which I haven driven, is light years more exciting in the way it looks (especially the interior) and drives, than any Lexus - especially the LS.

DARKMAZ8

Looks and "feel" are not always related. The Infinity looks nice and all, but this is a simple case of quantity over quality.

Christianv

Interior designed by Chanel and driving dynamics that closely shadow/match that of the class leading 545. Sounds to me like this Lexus is trailing the BMW and the Infiniti in both numbers and subjective categories and the quality if top notch.