New luxury sedans for 2005
04-08-2004, 10:42 AM
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Lexus GS
2006 Lexus GS430 (due Q1 2005): 300HP 4.3 V8, 6 speed auto, RWD
Also GS300 with 245HP 3.0 V6, 6 speed auto, RWD
Also GS350 GT with 300HP 3.5 V6 and 170HP electric motor (effective AWD) due August 2005
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Also GS300 with 245HP 3.0 V6, 6 speed auto, RWD
Also GS350 GT with 300HP 3.5 V6 and 170HP electric motor (effective AWD) due August 2005
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04-08-2004, 10:46 AM
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My thoughts:
RL - clean, sleek, bland. Vast improvement on previous model but $48k+ may be too much against this competition. Note i-drive controller. Sadly uses BOSE.
M45 - most interesting design, but Fuga concept was so much better. M35 may be very good value for money. Note i-drive controller. Sadly uses BOSE as well.
GS430 - Most bland of all, most tame interior (in photos at least), no i-drive, ML stereo. Others seem to have caught up in terms of luxury and gadgets.
RL - clean, sleek, bland. Vast improvement on previous model but $48k+ may be too much against this competition. Note i-drive controller. Sadly uses BOSE.
M45 - most interesting design, but Fuga concept was so much better. M35 may be very good value for money. Note i-drive controller. Sadly uses BOSE as well.
GS430 - Most bland of all, most tame interior (in photos at least), no i-drive, ML stereo. Others seem to have caught up in terms of luxury and gadgets.
04-08-2004, 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by SiMplyBluE
I've two of these already here in NJ.... They look nice.
I've two of these already here in NJ.... They look nice.
Good lord, Acura stole the Bangle Butt!! It's not nearly as bad as on the 7 series or 6 series, but it's there on the back of the RL. Uuuuuugly.
04-08-2004, 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Lawerence
...And the RL looks like a glorified accord.
...And the RL looks like a glorified accord.
I'm really disappointed with how many of the luxury makers are becoming almost indistiguishable from a styling perspective.
"Was that an Acura Accord? Or maybe an Infinity Camry? Or could have it been a Lexus 6 series?"
You get the point.
04-08-2004, 12:43 PM
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Luxury seems to be the word of the day as all the baby boomers are startin to become old folks. Looks like its time for a buick revival. I wouldn't mind seeing some sweet turbo V-6's or V-8's even it its in a granny car.
04-08-2004, 01:44 PM
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Wow, glorified accord is dead on for the Acura. That and you're paying how much for FWD?!?
The Infinity looks great from the front, hideous from the rear, and yak-tastic inside.
The Lexus looks good inside, but I wish they would've done something different with the C-pillar. It blends in a little too well to the rear quarter for me. Almost verging on hatchback look - which is NOT a good look for this Lexus...
If it were my money, I'd take the Lexus, warts and all, but I'd rather have my 8 and the left over cash.
The Infinity looks great from the front, hideous from the rear, and yak-tastic inside.
The Lexus looks good inside, but I wish they would've done something different with the C-pillar. It blends in a little too well to the rear quarter for me. Almost verging on hatchback look - which is NOT a good look for this Lexus...
If it were my money, I'd take the Lexus, warts and all, but I'd rather have my 8 and the left over cash.
04-08-2004, 02:21 PM
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RL - Doesnt look like a Acura, the front headlights are over-sized, the interior is nice, the rims are awful, and the back doesnt have that 2004 look.
M45 - Impressed that Nissan actually designed a nice looking car, the back taillights are over-sized, the front is beatiful, the interior is beautiful and the car is very powerful.
GS430 - Pretty nice, the back has that Audi Look, and the Front has a cross of the 2002 Millenia with some Audi to it, beautiful Lexus interior.
M45 - Impressed that Nissan actually designed a nice looking car, the back taillights are over-sized, the front is beatiful, the interior is beautiful and the car is very powerful.
GS430 - Pretty nice, the back has that Audi Look, and the Front has a cross of the 2002 Millenia with some Audi to it, beautiful Lexus interior.
04-08-2004, 02:39 PM
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The Acura is AWD (varies between 30/70 and 70/30 front to rear) and it may look better in real life. I think the interior will be gorgeous if the TL is anything to go by. However sales number will be low as there is no lower powered model - just the 300HP 3.5 V6 for about $48k.
The Lexus will be the best seller, mainly thanks to the GS300 with 245HP 3.0 V6 which might start at $39k and fully loaded should be under $44k. I have seen the car on video moving down the road and it looks much better than in photos, and I like the hatchback rear (more like the first generation GS300). But the interior (in photos) doesn't shout luxury like the other two vehicles.
The Infiniti will do well too, again thanks to the lower priced M35 with 280HP 3.5 V6. However this car will steal a lot of sales from the G35 Sedan (which tops out at $36k with far less luxury). I suspect the price of the M35 will be between $38k-$43k to allow room for the M45 between $44k-$48k and above that the Q45 that starts at $52k. The M35/M45 is the most interesting design both inside and out and could do very well if the quality is there.
EDIT: M35 will be $39k-$45k and M45 will be $47k-$53k - pricey but they have way more options than any other car in this segment of the market. You can build your own at the Infiniti.com website. Prices may change a little by release date next year.
The Lexus will be the best seller, mainly thanks to the GS300 with 245HP 3.0 V6 which might start at $39k and fully loaded should be under $44k. I have seen the car on video moving down the road and it looks much better than in photos, and I like the hatchback rear (more like the first generation GS300). But the interior (in photos) doesn't shout luxury like the other two vehicles.
The Infiniti will do well too, again thanks to the lower priced M35 with 280HP 3.5 V6. However this car will steal a lot of sales from the G35 Sedan (which tops out at $36k with far less luxury). I suspect the price of the M35 will be between $38k-$43k to allow room for the M45 between $44k-$48k and above that the Q45 that starts at $52k. The M35/M45 is the most interesting design both inside and out and could do very well if the quality is there.
EDIT: M35 will be $39k-$45k and M45 will be $47k-$53k - pricey but they have way more options than any other car in this segment of the market. You can build your own at the Infiniti.com website. Prices may change a little by release date next year.
Last edited by pelucidor; 04-08-2004 at 05:40 PM.
04-08-2004, 03:04 PM
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I don't know Pelucidor... I think the Infinity has the worst looking interior of the 3. I know it's not for everyone, but I don't care for the stepped dash and all those controls on the upper "step" of the dash. The Acura looks pretty good inside, but the shapes and look REALLY REALLY remind me of my fiancee's Accord. It looks good, but it also looks like it is just a dressed up downmarket car. As for the Lexus, I don't like the square metal (probably silver painted plastic) around the nav screen. The design inside looks evolutionary from the last GS, and that's not really a bad thing. But yeah, I can see where the interior looks a little plain.
On a side note, what models does acura currently produce. I keep up with almost every car brand, but for some reason I pay basically zero attention to Acura. I don't even know how their numbering system works... There's the NXS (on hiatus?), RSX, MDX, and that's all I can come up with. I guess it's my own personal carry-over hate from having a totally FWD linup for so long. When are they going to get with the program and throw in a rear drive large luxary sedan? A flagship so to speak...
On a side note, what models does acura currently produce. I keep up with almost every car brand, but for some reason I pay basically zero attention to Acura. I don't even know how their numbering system works... There's the NXS (on hiatus?), RSX, MDX, and that's all I can come up with. I guess it's my own personal carry-over hate from having a totally FWD linup for so long. When are they going to get with the program and throw in a rear drive large luxary sedan? A flagship so to speak...
04-08-2004, 05:34 PM
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I'm mixed about how the RL looks like. The front looks like a Mazda 3 and the rear looks like a Scion TC...
not exactly the luxurious look the RL is suppose to be built for.
not exactly the luxurious look the RL is suppose to be built for.
04-08-2004, 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by Boozehound
I don't know Pelucidor... I think the Infinity has the worst looking interior of the 3. I know it's not for everyone, but I don't care for the stepped dash and all those controls on the upper "step" of the dash. The Acura looks pretty good inside, but the shapes and look REALLY REALLY remind me of my fiancee's Accord. It looks good, but it also looks like it is just a dressed up downmarket car. As for the Lexus, I don't like the square metal (probably silver painted plastic) around the nav screen. The design inside looks evolutionary from the last GS, and that's not really a bad thing. But yeah, I can see where the interior looks a little plain.
On a side note, what models does acura currently produce. I keep up with almost every car brand, but for some reason I pay basically zero attention to Acura. I don't even know how their numbering system works... There's the NXS (on hiatus?), RSX, MDX, and that's all I can come up with. I guess it's my own personal carry-over hate from having a totally FWD linup for so long. When are they going to get with the program and throw in a rear drive large luxary sedan? A flagship so to speak...
I don't know Pelucidor... I think the Infinity has the worst looking interior of the 3. I know it's not for everyone, but I don't care for the stepped dash and all those controls on the upper "step" of the dash. The Acura looks pretty good inside, but the shapes and look REALLY REALLY remind me of my fiancee's Accord. It looks good, but it also looks like it is just a dressed up downmarket car. As for the Lexus, I don't like the square metal (probably silver painted plastic) around the nav screen. The design inside looks evolutionary from the last GS, and that's not really a bad thing. But yeah, I can see where the interior looks a little plain.
On a side note, what models does acura currently produce. I keep up with almost every car brand, but for some reason I pay basically zero attention to Acura. I don't even know how their numbering system works... There's the NXS (on hiatus?), RSX, MDX, and that's all I can come up with. I guess it's my own personal carry-over hate from having a totally FWD linup for so long. When are they going to get with the program and throw in a rear drive large luxary sedan? A flagship so to speak...
2004 ACURA LINEUP:
RSX - 2-door Integra replacement at $20-$25k
TSX - 4-door Integra replacement at $25-$27k (actually Euro Accord) - nice but only 2.4 4-cylinder 200HP
TL - 4-door significantly upgraded American Accord at $33-$35k - 270HP 3.2 V6 double wishbones all round but FWD
RL - 225HP 3.5 V6 FWD 'luxury' car at $46k, can make a rock get bored
MDX - best price/performance/size SUV on the market at $36-$42k (based on Odyssey)
All of these are FWD (MDX occasionally uses rear wheels too).
NSX - 290HP 3.2 V6 RWD supercar for $89k, sells 10-20 units per month
04-08-2004, 06:17 PM
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apparently, from the view of the screen in the first pic, the RL is capable of escape velocity and the navi has maps for it. hehehe. all seem fairly decent if a bit over priced. i definetly see the style cues the others are pointing out. bangle butt indeed.
04-08-2004, 07:05 PM
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Actually out of the 3, my vote is for the 2005 Infiniti M45!
IMHO, I like the exterior the best and it also has my favorite interior plus I like the design of the stepped dash and all those controls on the upper "step" of the dash...but that's the kind of guy I am.
:D
... To be honest, when I saw the first pics from the NY auto show I wasn't that impressed, but in a few days time... I've warmed up to it!
IMHO, I like the exterior the best and it also has my favorite interior plus I like the design of the stepped dash and all those controls on the upper "step" of the dash...but that's the kind of guy I am.
:D
... To be honest, when I saw the first pics from the NY auto show I wasn't that impressed, but in a few days time... I've warmed up to it!
04-08-2004, 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by zoom44
apparently, from the view of the screen in the first pic, the RL is capable of escape velocity and the navi has maps for it. hehehe...
apparently, from the view of the screen in the first pic, the RL is capable of escape velocity and the navi has maps for it. hehehe...
04-08-2004, 10:04 PM
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The only stuff AISMO is good for is opening new models at car shows. Anyways I would have to say I would take the M45 because it will probably turn out to be the least bland of them. The Honda and Toyota I own and have owned are bland appliances, not a car like the Rx8. The Acura and Lexus I have driven were also bland. I don't care that much about the stepped dash as long as the car will give me more fun.
04-08-2004, 10:27 PM
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I like the Acura, I had a 03 RL that was the most boring car on the planet.....but great fit and finish. Looks like the new one is a winner. Sure wish Honda had a nice V-8 or V-12.
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04-10-2004, 12:24 AM
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kind of OT, but the subaru B4 will arrive the states at the beginning of next month! (the is the JDM ver... geez...looks better)
0~60, 5.5sec, 250hp turbo, 4WD.
its good to see the japanese cars are having good improvements! btw, there's going to be an interior update for the 05" G35.
0~60, 5.5sec, 250hp turbo, 4WD.
its good to see the japanese cars are having good improvements! btw, there's going to be an interior update for the 05" G35.
04-10-2004, 10:16 AM
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That B4 is a gorgeous looking vehicle - I almost prefer its exterior styling to the M45/GS430/RL. I assume it will be uglified before bringing it into the USA like most Tier 2 Japanese cars.
04-10-2004, 06:20 PM
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&pagenumber=1
most people are complaing about the US ver of B4 of it's bumper
:
http://www.nspr.com/ken/Legacy_GT_320.wmv
most people are complaing about the US ver of B4 of it's bumper
:
http://www.nspr.com/ken/Legacy_GT_320.wmv