Ike

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't think you're going to budge mine on this. For a few years I was wanting to pick up a used FD, after checking out many in person and seeing adds for dozens more the fact that all but one or two had engines replaced scared me away. Many of them were claimed to be stock, maybe they were maybe they weren't. I just have a hard time believing that an overwhelming majority of people didn't know the basics of maintaining their car yet at the same time modded them.

There were plenty of other Japanese cars with FI being modded at the time, they held up pretty damn well. So to me it IS an engineering problem. They're still very cool cars and I love them, but I'd never own one unless I have a fair amount of disposable income and a daily driver to go along with it.

VikingDJ

I agree with Ike, but I can also agree with your opinion. If you take away the loudness of car, it's lack of room, and the fact that it's an extremely unpractical car for winter use, it can most certainly be a daily driver for those who don't mind that., and who;'s lifestyles do not need any cargo room. The glovebox is smaller then your average cigar box. Take away the price, and the NSX to me does make a better daily driver. I own an 01 S2K, and I know that the newer models are smoother and a bit less noisy. The early models have enthusiast written all over them. For me personally, the S2K makes a bad daily driver, but only if it's your only car, and you have nothing to share it with. I could not own this as my only vehicle, not only because of winters, but because of the lack of comfort, cargo and passenger room, loud cabin noise and the fact that this car has no luxury. It makes my STI seem luxurious. The way it's so friendly to drive around town, and it's so easy to tame like the RX8, and go fast when you want it to, and also that it gets great gas mileage, does make it a capable daily driver for some, but most S2K owners have it as a second car they garage and only used during nice seasons. Just try and find an early model with over 100k miles on it. You won't see that very often. I found my S2K with 30k miles, and that was actually more then others I looked at. For most it makes a horrible year round car, even in southern states. I have some tall, and/or big friends, and they can't even get in and out of the thing, and could never own this car. It's really not comfortable to me at all, and I'm thin and only 5-7, but it makes the perfect summer car. Even the Z roadster is more roomy, quieter, and full of luxury. It's also available in automatic, and has a better chance in winter driving then the S2K. The S2K is built for pure driving, and pure summer fun. The Miata can't even compare from an enthusaist point of view, because aside from the Elise, it's pretty much the most hardcore roadster you will find.

Dinhx8

very nice review of the s2k- I don't think you nor Ike are wrong in your assesments really- I think my main point is that I wouldn't blame s2k sales on the fact that its a purist enthusiast car (like the elise). The s2k has a good ride-yet can be really unleashed on the track. I'd blame its sales drop mainly on the fact that its a 2 seat roadster in its 6th year of production- priced higher than say a miata as well.

Some people love it cause it feels like a civic at times, some people love it (like yourself) cause they understand it and are true enthusiasts.

I think that compared to, say a Z, i'd rather drive around in an s2k any day-simply cause I feel the ride is better. Its not like the z has much of a backseat . My brother also uses his s2k as his only car and daily driver- but that's just one in thousands. Plus my brother is relatively small framed, so it makes easier sense I guess....

Ike

I don't think there has been much of a sales drop in the S2K, it's never really sold very well. I haven't seen sales numbers in a while though. I wasn't claiming the low sales compared to the Z were based on it being a true enthusiast car as much as it being far less practical.

StealthFox

hmm i never really knew the s2k was such a hardcore enthusiasts car, was available in only stick, had a terrble ride quality, etc untill the beginning of this year because i have only noticed regular "non-enthusiast" type people driving it and i always thought of it as a cool little peppy little roadster that was fairly comfortable(considering its high price) like a miata...i see a higher modified to non modified rate in EVO's and scoobys to the s2ks, i rarely see modded ones in comparison to the amount i see as whole(which is quite a bit where i live due to the astoundingly nice weather year round)

Ike

That's because the S2K is much like the RX-8 when it comes to mods, anything short of FI and the gains are pretty minimal and even FI on them isn't a huge difference. They are also very common autox cars and most compete in stock classes so that would be another reason. Even in the Milwaukee area it's not uncommon to see a dozen S2Ks show for some events. Lastly, WRX/STis and Evo are probably the most commonly modded cars on the road, it just goes along with the people that buy them as well as how easy and cheap it is to make more power.

StealthFox

very true ike, but the same could be said for the nissan Z as well while not nearly as bad as the s2k or a rx8 its no acura rsx, FD, or dsm gst in terms of receptiveness to bolt ons. and FI for that car is big $$$, raise the boost and you need a rebuilt bottom end :\
you're right about the wrx/sti and evos being cheap to make power, my grandfather started modding his wrx wagon and that thing flys.

VikingDJ

It's definitely a hardcore enthusiasts car, but I have seen your everyday people driving around in them. Since the S2K is built standard, without varations, the price is always high, and people will shy away from it. Not everyone needs a 240hp 30k roadster to suit their needs. They can simply buy a well equipped Miata and save a fortune, yet still get that open road feel of a small nimble roadster. To me the power this vtec unleashes is only suited for enthusiasts. I rarely use it, and I admit I chose this roadster based on it's looks, just like I did the RX8. Having the rarity of a limited production car, and that power though when I want it is really a wonderful bonus.
I looked up a sales report on this car, and they only sell about 5-7000 of this car per year. There were 5000 of them brought here for 2000, then it slowly increased, but has evened out very well. This is a sign of a winner in the market. Honda does a phenominal job in knowing the market on this car, and does not overproduce or underproduce it according to demand. Mazda must have wanted to get the RX8 out as much as possible, in order to revive the rotary, so I tend to think that they knew full well that they were overproducing this car in 2004.
I wouldn't even call myself much of an enthusiast really. I personally think it's better looking then a Miata, and it will still outperform even the MS Miata fairly easily. For those people who really want this car to hit next level, they can add a bolt on supercharger, with no tuning needed. It's not cheap, but it's simple and if you don't pound on it all the time, it's very reliable. It keeps car just like stock, but unleashes a massive amount of power in the higher range, and will take out a lot of stock cars, including an STI and EVO. Now, if Honda ever decided to put a similiar engine in this S2K like the NSX has, man that's scary.

playdoh43

i like the commercial, i think its funy and quirky and works for the eclipse. Theres no one stopping mazda from doing something similar for the 8 . Im glad the eclipse is selling well, because i dont want to see Mitsu go under. The eclipse is designed with casual consumers in mind. Most of its targeted audience could care less about handling and weight. They just want a sporty looking car to commute in. Most of the eclipse's sold are going to be the 4 cylinder version anyways. Theres really no need for any of you rx8 owners to feel threatened by it. its after all just an innocent, fun commercial

StealthFox

i find it hard to call the car rare because they outnumbered rx8s between 2-3 to 1 last year and its about 1:1 this year for s2k to rx8 where i live

VikingDJ

I agree. I was referring to the rarity of only having one of few 01 models, as opposed to having one of many 04 model RX8s. Naturally you will see different results depending where you live, not to mention you are comparing 6 years of production vs 2 years. I don't have exact 04 sales for the RX8, but it's my guess that it sold as many if not more as an 04 model, then the S2K sold as a 2000-2003. I remember when I got my rx8 in Feb of 04, there were literally 78 total rx8s at the one dealer I went to. When I did an inventory search, It yielded over 700 of them within 50 miles of my zip code. Obviously the 05 models have been much less produced, so that was a one time thing seeing all of those cars lined up like that. I literally had my pick of the crop, with every option package and color available. It was great to build an exact car online and have three of them sitting at dealer. I was looking at the S2K back then, but you'd be lucky to find the color you wanted, or even a dealer that had any sometimes. On top of that, the ability to get a super deal was pretty much non existent. Most dealers in my area have 2 or 3 max at one time. I tried negotiating for an 05 from three dealers, and none of them were willing to budge much in price, knowing the few they had would sell. If the RX8 does succeed, it will easily overtake the S2000, and be much more common. Overall, I don't think either of these cars will be rare for a very long time, even if production stopped on both in a couple of years.

rx8spiritR

oh my god! is that a R1 FD?????????????????
and did someone just mentioned he traded his 8 for that piece of ****!!!!????
such a disrespectful ad!!!!!!

Ike

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????? ???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Intrigue 8

Boo for that ..

StealthFox

i agree with you 100%, but even if both stop production next year the rx8's total production will have outnumbered the s2000's( i think) by a 7 to 3 year comparison of full production, but that again that is to be expected according to the goals for mazda and honda. Mazda wanted to put a mass market sports car out there to revive the rotary and possibly prime the way for an RX-7, and possibly tap into a new market of comfortable 4 seater sports cars, and honda wanted to make a limited production hardcore sports roadster for enthusiasts only pretty much. the rx8 doesnt cater to enthusiasts as a whole, it caters to the performance oriented average joe before the enthusiast

VikingDJ

Hmm. Will Mazda make a car to compete with the S2k? Possibly a two seat rx8 roadster? If that did happen, I'd be saying goodbye to this S2K very fast, as the fact that it's a convertible is the only reason why I got rid of rx8 for it. You are right. The RX8 is meant to appeal to a wider mass of enthusiasts and everyday lovers of sporty cars. Honda could make an affordable S2K, similiar to a Miata, but it would take away the true heritage of it. I believe the S2K is going to be much more desirable in future, and will always keep a much higher value, because it was built for that type of purpose, whereas RX8 is a mass production car.

StealthFox

definately the rx8's value will plummet, not saying the s2000 won't(it's a friggen honda after all) but its going to hold its value much better than most cars while the 8 will plummet.

the thing i like about the rx8 is that i can get the performance of the s2000(or near it) if i'd please, but obviously this requires money and work, where the s2000 gets them from the factory, but i'd bet i can get damn close(and keep the rather luxurious in comparison rx8 interior because its a daily driver, not a weekend car :D) the s2000 handles better hands down, but the rx8 also is one of the best handling cars in its class, a notch below the s2000. with some coilovers, 4pc lower arm brace bars, front and rear 4 pt strut bars, and front and rear 35mm sways with reinforced endlinks the rx8 would handle comparable to the s2000. still even after the money and work the paper results will be the same but they are very distinct cars with a very different feel. but both cars have the driver in mind and simular goals(a well balanced proper sportscar) which is why i love both.

DARKMAZ8

You are the man "captain run on" :p

JanSolo

First thing I would to improve the handling of the RX8 would be to replace the stock tires with something stickier and with rock like sidewalls. That should improve just about everything except for gas mileage.

StealthFox

thank you captain obvious(again)

ps

you're not the only one here with an IQ over 50

shelleys_man_06

You and your TV need to settle each other's differences. :p

Honestly, MMI hasn't had a real sports car since the Starion. There I said it.

rodrigo67

Me and my TV made up...I got a new TV

And the starion/conquest was an awesome car for it's time. It's too bad mitsu has such a bad rep now that I would be reluctant to buy anything they make...

StealthFox

the starion is one of the best drift cars there are, but dont tell those dumb kids that just joined the drift bandwagon because we dont need them wrecking what little starion turbos there are left