New RX-7 convertible caught testing!!
#51
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Originally posted by WinningBlue
Reading the article, all it says is that it is a test mule for the new Miata. So what's with all the conjecture about the RX-7? And how reliable is this souce? I'VE never heard of them...doen't mean they aren't credible, but... This is how rumors get started.
Reading the article, all it says is that it is a test mule for the new Miata. So what's with all the conjecture about the RX-7? And how reliable is this souce? I'VE never heard of them...doen't mean they aren't credible, but... This is how rumors get started.
You heard it here first - and this is just MY theory, I haven't seen it suggested anywhere else yet
Regards,
Gordon
#52
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Originally posted by PaulieWalnuts
I found it... Check out the butcher job on the back.
I found it... Check out the butcher job on the back.
In 2001, Mazda built several test mules for the RX-8 chassis and suspension - they were called M1, and were based on the body of the Japanese/European 626 sedan! (Ref p120 of Yamaguchi book). Those M1 mules were responsible for the initial chassis and suspension tuning work for the RX-8 suspension, as well as work on the B-pillarless door design. I haven't found pictures of the RX-8 M1 mules online anywhere, but you'd be surprised at what ugly beasts those were too!
Regards,
Gordon
#53
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Originally posted by project
Those are definately photoshopped. And poorly I might add. I've seen better work by people on this forum.
Those are definately photoshopped. And poorly I might add. I've seen better work by people on this forum.
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All the the pieces you guys keep circling just look like crappy body work to me. I don't see why you think it is photoshopped. Just looks like poor workmanship, which I would expect. I personally doubt all 6 photos are photoshopped. I can understand engineers testing with crappy bodywork.
#56
Yep I agree! Just look at how ugly that miata test mule was for the rx8. Sooooo if it is an Rx7, anyone care to speculate what size rotary is under the hood? Thats what I really want to know?
#57
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
- the structure underneath IS critical. Coupes/sedans (ie fixed roof vehicles) and convertibles are engineered very differently - for a coupe, the roof structure is critical, ie you couldn't just chop the roof off a coupe to disguise it for testing, because the chassis would be significantly different - the stiffness/rigidity and weight are quite different, especially for convertibles where it depends if the structure starts out specifically engineered to be roofless or is adapted from a coupe, with the roof cut off and the chassis reinforced to compensate (a convertible designed from the start to be roofless will be significantly lighter than a coupe with a roof-ectomy that is stiffened to compensate).
- the structure underneath IS critical. Coupes/sedans (ie fixed roof vehicles) and convertibles are engineered very differently - for a coupe, the roof structure is critical, ie you couldn't just chop the roof off a coupe to disguise it for testing, because the chassis would be significantly different - the stiffness/rigidity and weight are quite different, especially for convertibles where it depends if the structure starts out specifically engineered to be roofless or is adapted from a coupe, with the roof cut off and the chassis reinforced to compensate (a convertible designed from the start to be roofless will be significantly lighter than a coupe with a roof-ectomy that is stiffened to compensate).
#58
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More evidence it isn't real
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More evidence it isn't real
#59
RX-8: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
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Originally posted by Horse
Ok. so wouldn't the fact that the car would not be stiff and rigid and it would flap in the winf becuase the panels don't fit matter just as much the fact that they need to keep it a convertable. You are contradicting yourself. This is not a REAL mule.
Ok. so wouldn't the fact that the car would not be stiff and rigid and it would flap in the winf becuase the panels don't fit matter just as much the fact that they need to keep it a convertable. You are contradicting yourself. This is not a REAL mule.
Anyway, you are confusing body panels with Body Frame and structure. There are NOT the same thing. Just because you have body panel flapping in the wind, it does NOT mean the frame and body structure are weak and a test cannot be conducted on them to test their design and rigidity.
#60
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Originally posted by Horse
Ok. so wouldn't the fact that the car would not be stiff and rigid and it would flap in the winf becuase the panels don't fit matter just as much the fact that they need to keep it a convertable.
Ok. so wouldn't the fact that the car would not be stiff and rigid and it would flap in the winf becuase the panels don't fit matter just as much the fact that they need to keep it a convertable.
It depends on what the purpose of the mule is - if suspension testing, Mazda would ensure that the chassis is as stiff as it needs to be, even if it's heavier than a production version. Again, in the Yamaguchi RX-8 book, he describes how the M1 mule (note again, it was a Euro 626 chassis adapted for RX-8 suspension testing) wasn't stiff enough at the rear for the suspension to work optimally, so they had to stiffen it to improve grip - that testing gave the requirements for rear chassis stiffness for the final RX-8 structure, even though the development work was on a 626-based chassis.
Once again - that is a real test mule, whether MX-5 or RX-7 convertible - there is no doubt. There's also no doubt that you don't know a whole lot about automotive engineering processes - you really should try and learn from this discussion, rather than being an ostrich with your head buried in the sand!
Regards,
Gordon
#61
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Originally posted by Horse
Here is a cut-out of the Channel4 Terms & Conditions contract:
The information and other materials included on this site may contain inaccuracies and typographical errors. Channel 4 does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information and materials or the reliability of any statement or other information displayed or distributed through the site (including, without limitation, the information provided through the use of any software). You acknowledge that any reliance on any such statement or information shall be at your sole risk.
More evidence it isn't real
Here is a cut-out of the Channel4 Terms & Conditions contract:
The information and other materials included on this site may contain inaccuracies and typographical errors. Channel 4 does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information and materials or the reliability of any statement or other information displayed or distributed through the site (including, without limitation, the information provided through the use of any software). You acknowledge that any reliance on any such statement or information shall be at your sole risk.
More evidence it isn't real
Regards,
Gordon
#62
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Looks like they are testing the next Gen Miata. I would say it could very well be real. Remember that these prototype cars have a lot of disguise and factory will tape over areas of the car causing it to look like photoshopped.
#63
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Originally posted by Gord96BRG
In 2001, Mazda built several test mules for the RX-8 chassis and suspension - they were called M1, and were based on the body of the Japanese/European 626 sedan! (Ref p120 of Yamaguchi book).
Regards,
Gordon
In 2001, Mazda built several test mules for the RX-8 chassis and suspension - they were called M1, and were based on the body of the Japanese/European 626 sedan! (Ref p120 of Yamaguchi book).
Regards,
Gordon
#65
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Paulie is NOT joking - a different picture of that car, the X1B, is in the Yamaguchi RX-8 book (page 119). Built around 1995, it was an engineering mule based on a stretched Miata, which tested new suspension designs for the 1995 RX-01 concept car.
In 2001, Mazda built several test mules for the RX-8 chassis and suspension - they were called M1, and were based on the body of the Japanese/European 626 sedan! (Ref p120 of Yamaguchi book). Those M1 mules were responsible for the initial chassis and suspension tuning work for the RX-8 suspension, as well as work on the B-pillarless door design. I haven't found pictures of the RX-8 M1 mules online anywhere, but you'd be surprised at what ugly beasts those were too!
Regards,
Gordon
Paulie is NOT joking - a different picture of that car, the X1B, is in the Yamaguchi RX-8 book (page 119). Built around 1995, it was an engineering mule based on a stretched Miata, which tested new suspension designs for the 1995 RX-01 concept car.
In 2001, Mazda built several test mules for the RX-8 chassis and suspension - they were called M1, and were based on the body of the Japanese/European 626 sedan! (Ref p120 of Yamaguchi book). Those M1 mules were responsible for the initial chassis and suspension tuning work for the RX-8 suspension, as well as work on the B-pillarless door design. I haven't found pictures of the RX-8 M1 mules online anywhere, but you'd be surprised at what ugly beasts those were too!
Regards,
Gordon
Last edited by PaulieWalnuts; 05-12-2004 at 11:54 AM.
#66
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Horse:
The purpose of a mule is to test individual componentry that fits on or in a car. As a result, the engineers build these rigs with only the bare minimum of structure to give reliable feedback from the components being tested. If you ripped off the crappy exterior and looked at the structure beneath, you would probably see a very sturdy chassis with all the running gear required to test the suspension, drivetrain or whatever happens to be on test that day - the body panels simply reduce the wind resistance of the car a bit, and stop the rain getting in (although a lot of mules aren't very good with the rain part!)
There are a lot of people on here who know their stuff regarding automotive engineering and design, and they've all had their input. I think it's safe to say that it IS a real car, it IS a mule, and it HAS NOT been photoshopped. The disclaimer on the 4Car website is simply to stop the car companies suing if incorrect details are published about a product, nothing to do with posting fake pictures.
Plain and simple.
The purpose of a mule is to test individual componentry that fits on or in a car. As a result, the engineers build these rigs with only the bare minimum of structure to give reliable feedback from the components being tested. If you ripped off the crappy exterior and looked at the structure beneath, you would probably see a very sturdy chassis with all the running gear required to test the suspension, drivetrain or whatever happens to be on test that day - the body panels simply reduce the wind resistance of the car a bit, and stop the rain getting in (although a lot of mules aren't very good with the rain part!)
There are a lot of people on here who know their stuff regarding automotive engineering and design, and they've all had their input. I think it's safe to say that it IS a real car, it IS a mule, and it HAS NOT been photoshopped. The disclaimer on the 4Car website is simply to stop the car companies suing if incorrect details are published about a product, nothing to do with posting fake pictures.
Plain and simple.
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If you guys want an up close look at how cobled together mules can be check out this months motor trend. They have a feature on the Pontiac Solstice. The bumper appears to held on by wire.
#71
I saw the Solstice but I think that's well beyond a chassis franken-mule. It's a rough version of the final design that will go into production. And not to get off topic, but the Solstice is the first car (well, besides the Vette) GM has come up with that made me think "wow, I like it".
#73
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THe rumor is that Mazda will be offering a Rotary in the next Miata. This is only a rumor. What we could be looking at hear is a Mazda attempt to do so. The next Miata will be out shortly and from what I have heard it will be closly related to the RX-8 and to, heven for bid I say it to jinx it from happening, the next 7.
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I don't know about a hard top under there, but Its common knowledge that the RX-8 chasis is going to be a platform for near every other performance vehicle Mazda puts out. Thats why they spent so much $$$ developing it. They will build several cars ontop of it top get the return on development they are looking for. This means our beloved RX-8 will be the heart of mazda's performance future, rotary and pistons alike. As for this mule I think the two best arguments for this NOT being the next gen miata are the 5 lug set up when miatas are four lugs, and the EXTREMLY sooty tail pipes. Pretty questionable when taking that into consideration.