Brice-RX8

I say good riddance, and take GM with it. Sorry, I had a bad experience with a couple GM products and the way I see it is their bean-counters have too much control and they don't make quality products.

damnyankee

there was no r+d in this car, they just brought holden monaros over from australia.
gm lost nothing on this. no one lost their job. it's not like they actaully designed something to compete with the mustang. it was just something to sell until the new camaro comes along.

bascho

^ exactly

bascho

My co-worker owns one and I've been a passenger in his car many times. They are very nice cars and every bit as comfortable as an RX8. The LS2 is a great engine with tons of power and the GTO is a fast car for $30K. The styling is 100% Pontiac which is why it looks just like a GP or Bonni.......and a lot of people like that aspect. I am not a fan of any of the Pontiac vehicles.....so the styling was a 'miss' in IMO. Joe (coworkers name) is actually happy the GTO is being discontiued.......it will keep the value up on his. For a car that has only been out for 3 years, the aftermarket is huge for the GTO. Getting one used for $20K would be a good investment in a car with lots of potential. Hate to see RWD muscle cars die.......but that is the chance you take when you piggy-back someone else's platform.

ucfracerx8

Considering I almost bought an '05 GTO I can attest to the fact that it is wicked fast, but handles like an overweight 3 legged pig compared to an 8. The 8 had more than adequate accleration for my lead foot and the handling makes it that much better. The GTO is sort of a plain car, although with the hood scoops and dual exhaust for 05 and 06, they look a lot better. Yes it is made in Australia, the body is done there, as is final assembly. GM ships the engines and trannys over there. They take 6 weeks to get here from Elizabeth where they are made. It is an American (Australian) muscle car, it is one tough piece, those Holden boys really know how to make a good car and the fit and finish is very good. At the time I bought, sales were strong and incentives weak, plus GM was hurting due to a loss in value between the American dollar and Australian dollar. The rotary fit my driving style better and the 8 had more character, plus it is a smoother and easier ride to deal with in traffic, not to mention that it was cheaper by over 4k, due to the deals available on the 8 at that time, now there is an even larger gap. Don't be fooled, a base GTO with 6speed costs 33,690 sticker (05), the invoice is around 31,500, they really don't make a heck of a lot on the car. Anyone than can get it for less than that should take it, if that is what they want.

VikingDJ

Be careful with that comment. I don't remember seeing the GTO ever selling for $8000 off MSRP. I suppose if they threw in those rebates and incentives as high as the RX8, those GTOs would be selling faster then the RX8 is selling. This is GM's choice. Mazda has way too much r+d to stop the RX8 that soon, and regardless of how good or bad it's selling, it's gonna finish it's cycle.

bascho

You forgot to mention the insurance would have been double what you pay on the 8.

Brice-RX8

2004 GTO's were actually selling for $25k last year to get them off the lots and get GM paid. GM, Ford, & DC are the leaders of incentives.

VikingDJ

My bad. I forgot about the unwanted 04 DUCK. That was to be expected. No one wanted them, because the 05 came with the LS2 engine, and 50 more hp, along with other changes. Those poor 04s became a burden when they did that, and they had no choice. However, I'd love to be proven wrong. Find me a place that will sell me a 05 or 06 GTO for 8000-9000 off msrp, and I'll not only admit I am wrong, I'm going to dealership to buy one IMMEDIATELY., and that is no joke.

Brice-RX8

Just give it time, like I said GM "the king of incentives".

rotarygod

The difference is that the RX-8 isn't selling bad (regardless of who here thinks what) as they are meeting their projected sales and the car is profitable to the company as was reported by Mazda. It's also going to have a 2nd generation as they are working on it right now.

VikingDJ

Just out of my own curiosity, how many 05 RX8 models do you think have been sold? I looked up the 05 sales for the GTO, and it reads 11,069. I suppose what it comes down to is the fact that GM had much higher expectations, therefore it has become a disapppintment to them. I don't know what the 05 RX8 figures will end up being, but I will assume they will be higher, as Mazda seems to be force feeding the US with this car, which is why there are so many crazy deals going on to unload the remaining inventory. I mean, with a car as hot looking as the RX8, who wouldn't snag one up, when they are going between $5 and $8k off MSRP. I think what it comes down to is the success is based off what the company projects or expects. I believe Mazda knew full well that the RX8 was going to take time for people to feel comfortable buying, but they seem to be willing to push on, and get this car out there to prove something. I just cannot call the RX8 a success and the GTO a failure, because Mazda has put much more time and patience into the RX8 then Pontiac ever did the GTO. It was most certainly a filler car to buy time for the next Camaro. I do wonder though when the madness will stop with the RX8. This makes two years in a row that they had to unload a large inventory of leftover models, and stall delivery of the new MY. Is this intentional? I can't for the life of me ever think a car company would intentionally set out to have overstock, and left them go for well below msrp, but who knows.

Glyphon

i also drove one before i got my 8 and i would say that it handled like an overweight legged pig compared to the 97 sentra i was driving at the time. i was extremely unimpressed with the GTO (and that was the 05 model too).

Comfy seats, great engine note. that's about it. given the power, it only has decent acceleration (caused by its weight).

therm8

I've seen plenty of timeslips showing stock GTO's in the mid to low 13's. I agree, that is decent...

I'd say acceleration is very good, and handling is decent. But I guess it depends upon perspective.

The GTO was always to be a limited run. They purposely kept supply low in '05, selling around 12000. Not a bad run, and a nice car. Hopefully it'll be back in Zeta form when/if the Camaro hits the streets again.

Glyphon

yes, the gto is a fast car, but given its attributes, its only decently fast.

2004 Mazda RX-8 5.8 14.49 (238/159)
2005 Pontiac GTO LS2 4.8 13.3 (400/400)
2005 Chevrolet Corvette C6 4.2 12.5 (400/400)

The C6 and the GTO both use the 6.0L LS2.

now lets look at gearing:
GTO uses a 3.46 rear.
C6 uses 3.42

GTO is ~1s faster than the rx8 in 0-60 and 1.2s faster 1/4.
C6 is ~1.6s faster than the rx8 0-60 and 2s faster 1/4.

This is with the rx8 having ~1/2 the hp and ~1/3 the ft/lbs.

Given everything, the C6 is where the GTO performace should be. Same engine, faster gearing, yet its only able to perform up to ~2/3 of its ability.

Granted, GM wants the vette to be their fastest car, so the gto would be detuned in one way or another so that it stays behind the vette, but they didn't have to because the thing is a lead sled. it's weight suffiently slowed it down in comparision to its potential. no need to detune the engine. and the 2004's performace was even worse.

PoorCollegeKid

That's actually one of the best RX8 times that I've seen, compared with a fairly slow LS2 GTO time. Clicky for a more accurate representation of the best a GTO can do. An LS1 GTO can run down to a 13.1 with a great driver, while the LS2 version has hit as low as 12.9 stock. These would be numbers comparable to the 14.49 run that the RX8 has listed, since only a handful of drivers of any of the cars have ever run those times in a stock car. Performance wise, the GTO is hardly slow and is, in fact, the fastest RWD car in its price range (though the Evo and STi will run similar times for about the same amount of money).

VikingDJ

You are throwing out numbers, and leaving some VERY important details out. The GTO is capable of running a 13.3 regularly, with a decent everyday driver, and that time was achieved with the automatic model I believe, which is basically press the pedal down and go. Numbers are great and all, but they don't tell the complete story. You cannot run a 14.5 in an RX8 all day. That is the best possible time for that car really. Few have reached it, and it takes serious clutch and tranny abuse to do so. My S2K supposedly can run a 14.1 but not without me literally beating the **** out of the tranny and clutch, getting a perfect launch, and having everything go my way, along with mastering the car. The GTO is a straight out of the box, 13s performer. Even my STI is hard to reach low 13s in, and it's more realistic to call it a 14 second car in the every day world, assuming you don't abuse the car. The Manual 05 GTO is capable of high 12s. On top of that, 1 second in 0 to 60 is HUGE. That is night and day in performance. You have to throw details like this in when talking about performance numbers, otherwise it becomes very tainted if all you do is look at numbers, and throw out the variables.

Aratinga

I'm just glad we bought our GTO when we did... it's a 2004 black 6MT that we picked up brand new one year ago for $24K after incentives and GM Card points. Comparing a GTO to an 8 is comparing apples to oranges. They're both four-passenger RWD cars, and that's where the likeness stops. Oh, wait... they both get similar gas mileage.

The motor in the GTO is incredible; it sounds wonderful and the torque is addictive. The car accelerates past 90mph on freeway onramps before you even know it. The interior is top-notch and the seats are the most comfortable, well-designed things I've ever sat in. Although I'm still a bit intimidated by the raw power of the car, my boyfriend grew up with V8 musclecars and gets a huge kick out of powersliding the GTO around corners and doing the occasional burnout when asked. He swears this is the best musclecar he's ever owned (he also has an IROC-Z Camaro).

It's a real shame that Pontiac is killing the GTO so soon. I just hope parts availability at the dealerships doesn't become a real problem for us since they have to come from Australia unless they're drivetrain.

samsong

Had considered a new GTO to park next to my '67, but thinking an RX-8 would complete the garage better.

MadDashRX8

Can anyone say 2008/2009 Pontiac Firebird??? That's my prediction, to compete with the new Camaro, as always.

snizzle

WHAT?!?!?!

nzarnow

Apparently GM was talking to themselves when they said they were only going to sell this car for 3 years. They made a press release saying this at the beginning of the cars life in 2003 and so naturally 2006 is the cars last year.

I wish they were going to keep selling it because the 2006 with the SAP looks better than dare I say my own rx-8. It really doesn't feel like a domestic car at all except for its wonderful engine. I wish I was in the market for a car right now because I would pick one up asap.

MadDashRX8

What, what?!?!? Haven't you seen the "new" camaro pics from the auto shows? Or you don't think the firebird will come back? Look at '67. Look at every year camaro and firebird changed body styles. They each did in synch with the other. Who's to say that freeing up one RWD powerhouse (GTO) can't open up the other (firebird) for reintroduction? Personally, I'd heard 08 GTO was to have suicide doors; that may have forced me to cross BACK over to the Goat. Not now... I miss my '67. sniff sniff...

snizzle

Of course i've seen the pics.

What I meant by that was that I don't think they compete in a sense because the money is all going to the same bank. GM doesn't care if you buy a Camaro instead of a Firebird.... as long as you aren't buying a Mustang instead of either.

MadDashRX8

I agree, and completely support that comment. FB & Cam don't compete AGAINST eachother--they compete WITH eachother. It's like buying a Silverado instead of a Sierra. Same Same...

As good as the Camaro looks, I'd love to see some ideas about what a new Firebird could look like.