NO RX-9, slight chance for RX-7
#26
Banned
iTrader: (3)
Many say the same of the RX-8. I think it is extremely attractive, so our opinions cancel out, anyway.
The way it looks really isn't its main problem...
Arguably one of the most successful engine designs ever advanced and the Subaru boxers are extremely viable performance platforms.
Any new rotary-powered car would already be hobbled by the fact that it wouldn't be allowed to sell in Europe at all, regardless of its emissions status.
The recent removal of the RX-8 from the European market wasn't really about emissions, though that was the language that was used. It was about taxes.
The EU countries were tired of the rotary getting around the luxury taxes in many countries by virtue of the rotary displacement. Imposing a tax on the rotary specifically would have been the same thing as a tax on a single manufacturer, so ousting it based on emissions restrictions was an easy out.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 05-27-2011 at 05:12 AM.
#27
Nissan and Toyota have bigger market shares by many orders of magnitude.
That said, can you imagine if the FT-86 or the 370Z were low-horsepower and/or low fuel-economy cars?
The FT will be here in November and we have already seen pre-production models rolling around.
The Genesis is here and it barely sells on the same sort of promises the next-gen RX car would make.
The 370Z already destroys everything the next RX could possibly be.
Furthermore, do you really want to see a hybrid-rotary? The RX-8 is already a pig in the weight/power party. Sure, go ahead and add another thousand pounds of motor, battery and wire.
That said, can you imagine if the FT-86 or the 370Z were low-horsepower and/or low fuel-economy cars?
The FT will be here in November and we have already seen pre-production models rolling around.
The Genesis is here and it barely sells on the same sort of promises the next-gen RX car would make.
The 370Z already destroys everything the next RX could possibly be.
Furthermore, do you really want to see a hybrid-rotary? The RX-8 is already a pig in the weight/power party. Sure, go ahead and add another thousand pounds of motor, battery and wire.
About hybrid.... why not if you build a sport sedan with a total of 300 hp?
I'm more skeptical about a rx-7 2 seater with hybrid, that's a pig.......
FT86? that's is more a mx-5 ND competitor IMHO, let's see official data....
#28
Well most places double its displacement (even FIA doesn't really double it..) to get around our advantage but the nail in the coffin was the market itself.
You know the results of servicing a rotary every 12000miles and changine the plugs at 60.000 right?
You know the results of servicing a rotary every 12000miles and changine the plugs at 60.000 right?
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#29
1,5€ for 1 liter of gas don't help, BTW.......
#30
the sky is falling!! the sky is falling!!
Whatever, if they build another one that's great, if they don't then I'll just look elsewhere for another fun car when the time comes. I'm a bit burned out on the Mazda dealerships around here anyway. I dont mind the Genesis, only thing I absoluely despise about it is the engine bay, it looks like the engine is about 3 sizes too big for where they put it, besides, for the same money you can get a camaro v6 which is actually a pretty decent car. The 370 is cool save for that front end and those awful door handles it inherited from its pig 350z brother, what gives with Mazda and their "smiley" thing and Nissan doing the whole bucktooth look? "Here, you can't afford a GT-r, but this car looks like one too!!!1...in the front!! yay!!! isn't that cool?!?!?!!1"....ugh.
Whatever, if they build another one that's great, if they don't then I'll just look elsewhere for another fun car when the time comes. I'm a bit burned out on the Mazda dealerships around here anyway. I dont mind the Genesis, only thing I absoluely despise about it is the engine bay, it looks like the engine is about 3 sizes too big for where they put it, besides, for the same money you can get a camaro v6 which is actually a pretty decent car. The 370 is cool save for that front end and those awful door handles it inherited from its pig 350z brother, what gives with Mazda and their "smiley" thing and Nissan doing the whole bucktooth look? "Here, you can't afford a GT-r, but this car looks like one too!!!1...in the front!! yay!!! isn't that cool?!?!?!!1"....ugh.
#31
Registered
Small people here make it sound as if Mazda continues with the rotary engine just for the love of it and/or because of the rotary engine enthusiasts. No company sells anything without profit
![Icon No2](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/icon_no2.gif)
Last edited by pistonhater; 05-27-2011 at 12:01 PM.
#32
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
Its all just "we guess" "we thought" right now.
Rotary powered car was never a big seller for Mazda. If they want to stop they did it long time ago. even as good as FD/FC, they were not making much money off from it (if they even made any)
you guys underestimate the dedication of the Japanese people, if they want to "do" something, they will do it, no matter what the consequences are.
I can take MM's bet, but if I lose (car never came out and rotary is gone for good) then what should I buy? I can't buy something that does not exist
Even if I win (car do come out) I still gonna be on the pre-order list and I'm sure anybody on the pre-order list will have to pay at least MSRP.
Rotary powered car was never a big seller for Mazda. If they want to stop they did it long time ago. even as good as FD/FC, they were not making much money off from it (if they even made any)
you guys underestimate the dedication of the Japanese people, if they want to "do" something, they will do it, no matter what the consequences are.
I can take MM's bet, but if I lose (car never came out and rotary is gone for good) then what should I buy? I can't buy something that does not exist
![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Even if I win (car do come out) I still gonna be on the pre-order list and I'm sure anybody on the pre-order list will have to pay at least MSRP.
#33
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
and most drivers no matter Euro or America or Africa, etc. they just DON'T check their oil! at 12K miles ... the oil light will come on at least couple of times and the "stupid" owners will be like "hey, this car SUCKKKKKSSSS!"
#34
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
One more thing, ---- I never really trust stuff from Car and Driver. They bs a lot just just like any other Magazine. Their "insider info" could be from a Security guard at the front gate.
Just look at Sky-Activ, they didn't even release much info until a year or 2 ago and its coming out end of this year. so there is about 2 years gap between the product info and official release.
So if they're going to release something. they will announce it about 1 & 1/2 to 2 yrs before hand.
They already announced they're working on 16x 3 yrs ago and increasing displacement has been working for Mazda for decades (for both increasing efficiency and power output), but since there are more tree huggers now than ever Mazda gotta be "REAL" careful on the emission part.
like Knight Sports people said, You shouldn't compare RX-8 to Rx-7 at ALL, cuz they are completely different. RX-7 was design to be purely compeition/sports car. RX-8 was designed to meet emission.
so yea if they want to keep this engine alive, first thing they have to pay attention is ---- Emission, and that's a really hard goal to reach, way too many tree huggers & clueless politicians these days ---
but again if the Japanese wants to do something bad, they WILL do it. That's how Renesis even exist in the first place (couple engineers got pissed when they cut their R&D funding)
even tho it might seem like a suicide act *cough* to others. they will surprise you
Just look at Sky-Activ, they didn't even release much info until a year or 2 ago and its coming out end of this year. so there is about 2 years gap between the product info and official release.
So if they're going to release something. they will announce it about 1 & 1/2 to 2 yrs before hand.
They already announced they're working on 16x 3 yrs ago and increasing displacement has been working for Mazda for decades (for both increasing efficiency and power output), but since there are more tree huggers now than ever Mazda gotta be "REAL" careful on the emission part.
like Knight Sports people said, You shouldn't compare RX-8 to Rx-7 at ALL, cuz they are completely different. RX-7 was design to be purely compeition/sports car. RX-8 was designed to meet emission.
so yea if they want to keep this engine alive, first thing they have to pay attention is ---- Emission, and that's a really hard goal to reach, way too many tree huggers & clueless politicians these days ---
but again if the Japanese wants to do something bad, they WILL do it. That's how Renesis even exist in the first place (couple engineers got pissed when they cut their R&D funding)
even tho it might seem like a suicide act *cough* to others. they will surprise you
Last edited by nycgps; 05-27-2011 at 07:48 AM.
#35
they have always talked about "committment" regarding rotary, but obviously they need to do some calc.
a rotary car will come IMHO. but just one.
#36
Registered
iTrader: (4)
You talk as though Mazda's history started with the FC. There was a time the the rotary engine was the only one they put in their cars.
A tiny Mazda was able to bring the rotary engine from prototype stage to production. Over the years, working alone, they have be able to refine it to the state we see today. Once fuel economy problems are worked out, we will see another car produced with one. An increase in economy will result in reduced emissions.
What number they choose to put after the RX doesn't matter.
A tiny Mazda was able to bring the rotary engine from prototype stage to production. Over the years, working alone, they have be able to refine it to the state we see today. Once fuel economy problems are worked out, we will see another car produced with one. An increase in economy will result in reduced emissions.
What number they choose to put after the RX doesn't matter.
#37
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
You talk as though Mazda's history started with the FC. There was a time the the rotary engine was the only one they put in their cars.
A tiny Mazda was able to bring the rotary engine from prototype stage to production. Over the years, working alone, they have be able to refine it to the state we see today. Once fuel economy problems are worked out, we will see another car produced with one. An increase in economy will result in reduced emissions.
What number they choose to put after the RX doesn't matter.
A tiny Mazda was able to bring the rotary engine from prototype stage to production. Over the years, working alone, they have be able to refine it to the state we see today. Once fuel economy problems are worked out, we will see another car produced with one. An increase in economy will result in reduced emissions.
What number they choose to put after the RX doesn't matter.
but what I am saying is after that "approach" almost killed Mazda, Rotary engine never made much money for them, but still year after year new one just keeps coming and surprised everybody.
This "Rotary engine is dead/no more" just keeps coming back year after year, generation after generation from the "people outside/omg insider information/etc"
For me, unless Mazda comes out and officially announce that "ok, we're done with Rotary Engine, yep, fairwell," I will never give my hopes up.
*btw* the R&D fund they spent on S2 RX-8 cost almost the same as the money they spent on the original RX-8, and that's big money. if they're giving it up, they wouldn't even bother with the new E-OMP and all other crap they're "trying" on the new engine. Especially now Ford is "gone" they have much more control of what they want to do.
Last edited by nycgps; 05-27-2011 at 08:09 AM.
#38
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
![TX](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/tx.jpg)
Because he is a bull-*******. They ALL are. They ALL thrive on the attention and sense of importance they get when they sit before their "minions" and regale them with tales of their inside knowledge.
Will he be anywhere for you to question him when it doesn't happen? I don't think so. They are all just Harold Campings.
I run into these guys all the time. Mazda Corporate "executives". Glossy business cards. Some of them even have desks at Irvine. They all have "seen with their own eyes" the next rotary car. Or the next sports car. Or the next mini-van. Whatever group you belong to.
They are out there as little tiny data-points in the corporate marketing scheme.
If by "another" you mean a different car than the RX-8, then I'll take that bet.
I'll take it further - if it happens, the loser has to buy one. That day. Right away. Full MSRP. You up for that?
Will he be anywhere for you to question him when it doesn't happen? I don't think so. They are all just Harold Campings.
I run into these guys all the time. Mazda Corporate "executives". Glossy business cards. Some of them even have desks at Irvine. They all have "seen with their own eyes" the next rotary car. Or the next sports car. Or the next mini-van. Whatever group you belong to.
They are out there as little tiny data-points in the corporate marketing scheme.
If by "another" you mean a different car than the RX-8, then I'll take that bet.
I'll take it further - if it happens, the loser has to buy one. That day. Right away. Full MSRP. You up for that?
![Lol](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/lol.gif)
But if I lose, I am not committed to buying whatever it is. My ***** are not that big
![Lol](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/lol.gif)
We shall see I guess. Supposedly his summer is the announcement.
#39
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
![Lol](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/lol.gif)
But if I lose, I am not committed to buying whatever it is. My ***** are not that big
![Lol](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/lol.gif)
We shall see I guess. Supposedly his summer is the announcement.
I need to get another car in about 1-3 years later anyway. I'm cool with it, nothing much to lose
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#43
Registered
iTrader: (2)
I suspect that there is considerable disagreement within Mazda as to the future of the rotary. At the risk of over-simplifying, Japanese teamwork works well when the next step is clear, but less well when it is not. It's difficult to say "no" without offence in Japanese, so 'no' is communicated by a less enthusiastic 'yes'. Each rumor may be absolutely true from the standpoint of the source, yet still may have nothing to do with what will eventually happen. According to my friends there, the decision-making process is obscure, even to those involved. Add in the EPA, world financial climate, oil prices, the earthquake, etc. and who knows what will happen next week, much less in a couple years?
#44
i don't believe anything these car mags say, i remember when they put out the new "charger" back in 99 that looked like a real slick 2 door muscle car.... and look at what actually came to market, even the "spy" shots of the camero looked way different than what came out.
until mazda makes an official announcement.... we all must agree to disagree
now where is that damn shot girl, i need more spankings
until mazda makes an official announcement.... we all must agree to disagree
now where is that damn shot girl, i need more spankings
#45
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
not surprised at all.
moving on...
moving on...
#47
the giant tastetickles
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: in the basement
Posts: 2,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rotary engine future is pretty much dead. Mazda is always one step behind competition and emmission laws. By the time the rotary engine can be engineered to be treehugger friendly, we will be surrounded by electric cars and flying saucer or six feet under. The only place it will exist is on a race track with rotary powered racecars coz lets face it, the piston wouldnt race the wankel without imposing some stupid rules on RE.
#48
Registered Drifter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Orange County
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm...
Not doubting Car and Driver, but merely posting this up as I didn't see it in this thread. I'm not really on either side of this argument, but for the sake of sparking more debate and opinion spewing, here's the 19 May 11 article from Motor Trend:
http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...ech/index.html
No one better flame me or state REPOST, because I will come to your house, light a bag of dog poop, and ring your doorbell. Oh, yeah. I will....
http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...ech/index.html
No one better flame me or state REPOST, because I will come to your house, light a bag of dog poop, and ring your doorbell. Oh, yeah. I will....
Last edited by drifter_d; 05-28-2011 at 12:33 AM.
#49
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
Not doubting Car and Driver, but merely posting this up as I didn't see it in this thread. I'm not really on either side of this argument, but for the sake of sparking more debate and opinion spewing, here's the 19 May 11 article from Road & Track:
http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...ech/index.html
No one better flame me or state REPOST, because I will come to your house, light a bag of dog poop, and ring your doorbell. Oh, yeah. I will....
http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...ech/index.html
No one better flame me or state REPOST, because I will come to your house, light a bag of dog poop, and ring your doorbell. Oh, yeah. I will....
Next thing I know is that one of these Mag will have new "INSIDER" information saying that they found a way to install a piston into the Engine and it will add 15 mpg instantly with another 200 ft lbs of Torque.
I mean honestly, Mazda knew Rotary engine was a "dream" more than reality after it almost killed their company back in 70s (when the first oil crisis hits). so now Rotary engine is more like their company's image. They're the only company that they can make this "dream" possible (sales is another issue). and a lot of people respect Mazda for that.
who knows what will happen down the road. a lot of things were not possible 20 years ago but its possible now and it just keeps making the engine better and better.
Last edited by nycgps; 05-27-2011 at 09:58 PM.