Numbers Add Up For RX-7 Revival!
#76
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Renesis 8,
Why do you think Mazda Motor Corp Japan want to take over MNAO, because they have obviously done a crap job of marketing their brand and "managing" the retail dealer network.
Mazda US should be selling at least 800,000 units year not 295K when you look at sales figures of the rest of the world.
You do the Math..
Australia population 21 Mil.... over 70K in Mazda Sales in 2007 and still growing..
USA pop 320Mil... 295K..it is bloody pathetic.
Why do you think Mazda Motor Corp Japan want to take over MNAO, because they have obviously done a crap job of marketing their brand and "managing" the retail dealer network.
Mazda US should be selling at least 800,000 units year not 295K when you look at sales figures of the rest of the world.
You do the Math..
Australia population 21 Mil.... over 70K in Mazda Sales in 2007 and still growing..
USA pop 320Mil... 295K..it is bloody pathetic.
#77
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The main flaw with keeping RX-7 pricing constant generation after generation is that you lose those enthusiasts whose salaries actually rise and who aspire to have a car with "more acceleration, more performance". Yeah, there'll always be a new flow of fresh rotary enthusiasts; but what do you do with those people who want more - send them to Nissan for a GT-R? Tell them to buy the new NSX, because we at Mazda only make sportscars in the crapbox price range? They can have a rotary car in that class, and its name can be Kabura.
Every car company out there moves their models upmarket - the examples are endless: Civic is now the size the Accords used to be only a couple gens prior; BMW 3 series used to be the tiniest of their line, now the 1 fills that slot; Lexus LS400s were a mid to high $30K car, now they're $65K to $100K(?)+. Back in the FD's production time Ferrari's 355 and 512 TR were $120K to $200K, now their successors are easily 50% more than that. Whoever said there has to be a freeze on pricing?
Every car company out there moves their models upmarket - the examples are endless: Civic is now the size the Accords used to be only a couple gens prior; BMW 3 series used to be the tiniest of their line, now the 1 fills that slot; Lexus LS400s were a mid to high $30K car, now they're $65K to $100K(?)+. Back in the FD's production time Ferrari's 355 and 512 TR were $120K to $200K, now their successors are easily 50% more than that. Whoever said there has to be a freeze on pricing?
For example EX-level Civic mid-to late 80s was around 12,000 to $14,000 depending on options.
What cost $12000 in 1986 would cost $21672.69 in 2006.
Heck the RX-8 cost near the same as the S4 GXL FC did when you adjust for inflation, but the RX-8 would have ABS, airbags, and power everything standard.
Funny that... Mazda sells as many FE's as they did FCs...
But want to see when you bring out another FD... sales will tank just like they did in 1993.
Some cars even get cheaper... the current MX-5 is cheaper than the original version when you look at adjusting for inflation. For example: What cost $18000 in 1989 would cost $29581.44 in 2006. (of course there were dealers selling the Miata for as high as $25,000 in 89- but prices normalized within a year, so I just went with the average sold price for a 89).
So you are wrong about car's moving up-market when you adjust for inflation.
Last edited by Icemark; 12-14-2007 at 05:09 PM.
#78
Renesis 8,
Why do you think Mazda Motor Corp Japan want to take over MNAO, because they have obviously done a crap job of marketing their brand and "managing" the retail dealer network.
Mazda US should be selling at least 800,000 units year not 295K when you look at sales figures of the rest of the world.
You do the Math..
Australia population 21 Mil.... over 70K in Mazda Sales in 2007 and still growing..
USA pop 320Mil... 295K..it is bloody pathetic.
Why do you think Mazda Motor Corp Japan want to take over MNAO, because they have obviously done a crap job of marketing their brand and "managing" the retail dealer network.
Mazda US should be selling at least 800,000 units year not 295K when you look at sales figures of the rest of the world.
You do the Math..
Australia population 21 Mil.... over 70K in Mazda Sales in 2007 and still growing..
USA pop 320Mil... 295K..it is bloody pathetic.
#79
For example EX-level Civic mid-to late 80s was around 12,000 to $14,000 depending on options.
What cost $12000 in 1986 would cost $21672.69 in 2006.
What cost $12000 in 1986 would cost $21672.69 in 2006.
Btw, have you noticed that since 2001 the Civic uses cheaper MacPherson struts as opposed to unequal length A-arms? The inflation adjusted cost may be lower in some models, but one has to ask himself where they cut corners.
Heck the RX-8 cost near the same as the S4 GXL FC did when you adjust for inflation, but the RX-8 would have ABS, airbags, and power everything standard.
But want to see when you bring out another FD... sales will tank just like they did in 1993.
Some cars even get cheaper... the current MX-5 is cheaper than the original version when you look at adjusting for inflation. For example: What cost $18000 in 1989 would cost $29581.44 in 2006. (of course there were dealers selling the Miata for as high as $25,000 in 89- but prices normalized within a year, so I just went with the average sold price for a 89).
#80
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Since cars are pretty much a necessity in north america, most people just want a car to commute, and drive around their families, hence the camry and accord do so well.
I don't know about Australia, but for Europe and especially Asian cities, cars are a luxury, you don't need one.
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Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 02:05 PM.
#81
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They don't have to tank. Remember, there can still be a rotary in the bottom dollar category. The RX-7 would be in addition to an RX-8 and/or Kabura priced half as much - a true flagship rivaling the best out there rather than running with the $30K-ish pack, and its sales would be "gravy"; plus the added benefit of having a tech tour-de-force in your showroom would make lots of people buy the half-as-costly other rotary offerings.
But there is a reason that few car manufactures build sporty RWD coupes anymore... and it is because they don't sell as well as 4 doors. The sheep in the states, buy Camrys or even the BMW 3 series sedan (which sells 75% more than the coupe) for the rear seats.
Don't get me wrong. If Mazda was to build the equivalent of a Z4 powered by the rotary, I would be in line (after the first year's production was sold)... but it wouldn't make good sales.
#82
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I'd have to agree with Icemark here. I'd love a high performance top of the line rotary sports car, but such a proposition is going to be money losing for Mazda and I'd rather any rotary car make money so as to ensure the engine's future survival.
Icemark's comparison was EX to EX. A DX Civic, which is still better equipped than most '80s Civics, is $15,000 today.
As opposed to what? Where they cut corners in the FD? As much as I love the FD, and I do adore it, it's my favorite car of all time after all, I'd much rather the manufacturer save a few dollars in basic suspension setup than save a few dollars that result in half baked cooling systems. And a strut type suspension isn't automatically inferior, it all depends on the application. For a car like the Civic, which despite what ricers like to think is honest basic transportation, a strut makes a ton of sense. It's a compact suspension system that will result in more interior and trunk room. That's a win for a car that probably won't be driven past 50% of its grip envelope.
The yen was much weaker in the mid 80s. In 1985 the exchange rate was about 230 yen to a dollar. Only after the Plaza Accord was signed in 1985 did the yen rise. In 1988, it was about 130 yen to a dollar. These days, the rate is about 120 yen to a dollar.
You can't have a car model whose sales are "gravy." The tooling and engineering expense involved in developing the car would mean that it would need to sell, or else you just have a resource and money blackhole in your lineup. That's a huge no no in today's business environment. The effectiveness of a halo car is hotly debated and nothing conclusive has been proven. Mazda already has a higher percentage of sports car in their lineup than any non-specialty automaker. Considering sports cars generally are not the breadwinners of an automaker's lineup, if I were a Mazda executive, expanding my sports car lineup would be the last thing on my mind.
The yen was much weaker in the mid 80s. In 1985 the exchange rate was about 230 yen to a dollar. Only after the Plaza Accord was signed in 1985 did the yen rise. In 1988, it was about 130 yen to a dollar. These days, the rate is about 120 yen to a dollar.
They don't have to tank. Remember, there can still be a rotary in the bottom dollar category. The RX-7 would be in addition to an RX-8 and/or Kabura priced half as much - a true flagship rivaling the best out there rather than running with the $30K-ish pack, and its sales would be "gravy"; plus the added benefit of having a tech tour-de-force in your showroom would make lots of people buy the half-as-costly other rotary offerings.
#83
Mazda already has a higher percentage of sports car in their lineup than any non-specialty automaker. Considering sports cars generally are not the breadwinners of an automaker's lineup, if I were a Mazda executive, expanding my sports car lineup would be the last thing on my mind.
#84
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Thread Starter
We have the large cars too and V8's, V6's and the standard Family cars like
the 4 Door Holden Commodore (Pontiac G8), Ford Falcon, Most of the US Chrysler range. We have Camry's, Accords, Liberty's, Mondeos. All the German brands.
In SUV's, Ford Territory Australian Made large V6 Turbo), Holden's Captiva, Toyota's Laundcruiser and Kluger and RAV4, Nissan's Pajero, Murano. Subaru's US Tribeca.
Honda's MDX and CRV, Mazda's Tribute, CX-7 and 9, and then you have the MPV's and the Utes.
My point really is that the rest of the world has had huge increases in sales of Mazda's where the US has had mediocre, even Europe are now close to the US in total numbers. 4-5 years ago they were doing 150K in Mazda units.
#85
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Thread Starter
There are reasons.
Since cars are pretty much a necessity in north america, most people just want a car to commute, and drive around their families, hence the camry and accord do so well.
I don't know about Australia, but for Europe and especially Asian cities, cars are a luxury, you don't need one.
Since cars are pretty much a necessity in north america, most people just want a car to commute, and drive around their families, hence the camry and accord do so well.
I don't know about Australia, but for Europe and especially Asian cities, cars are a luxury, you don't need one.
Most households here have 2 cars or more, the husband the wife have one each and then the teenage kids 16YO and above, and then the adult kids still living at home with mum (sorry mom) and dad.
We have kids in their 30's and 40's still single and living still at home.!!
So I guess we are very similar to you guys in the US???
#86
I wouldn't want a $30,000 RX-7, and wouldn't expect a GT-R beater for less than half as much. The figure I mentioned in an earlier post was around $50K.
#87
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$50K M3, yes.
$50K IS-F yes
$50K GT-R maybe (but it will probably be stillborn anyway- just for being so butt ugly and heavy- well alone being $25K overpriced)
$50K Mazda... no way.
Last edited by Icemark; 12-16-2007 at 06:40 PM.
#88
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Well it's like the Supra, 1996 the supra was 45k+ and now they are releasing it again and it will be around 60k from what I heard so far.
I think if they decide to make the RX-? (7) they are defantanly going to make it more then what it was in 1995, 32k. I'm thinking that it will be around 35k base to 45k with options. I can even see it in the 50's. But it's not going to be anywhere near the 8's price range. New engineering, now components, blah, blah blah, that suff doesn't come cheap.
This thread is like deja-vu... lol
I think if they decide to make the RX-? (7) they are defantanly going to make it more then what it was in 1995, 32k. I'm thinking that it will be around 35k base to 45k with options. I can even see it in the 50's. But it's not going to be anywhere near the 8's price range. New engineering, now components, blah, blah blah, that suff doesn't come cheap.
This thread is like deja-vu... lol
#89
You can't have a car model whose sales are "gravy." The tooling and engineering expense involved in developing the car would mean that it would need to sell, or else you just have a resource and money blackhole in your lineup. That's a huge no no in today's business environment.
#90
I think if they decide to make the RX-? (7) they are defantanly going to make it more then what it was in 1995, 32k. I'm thinking that it will be around 35k base to 45k with options. I can even see it in the 50's. But it's not going to be anywhere near the 8's price range. New engineering, now components, blah, blah blah, that suff doesn't come cheap.
#91
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I think in Toyota.com, they said V6 3.5L with their hybrid, a SYNERGY car with 400 Hp and still 30 MPG. It's very cool what they are doing, the brakes when activated, collects positive ions to recharge their batteries or something to that effect.
Whatever the price/power/blah blah, we'll all be guessing til it comes out.
Whatever the price/power/blah blah, we'll all be guessing til it comes out.
#92
Let's all guess what the weight will be. If the last gen turbo was 3500 pounds, and you add the battery pack to this one does that mean Toyota's in a race with the GT-R to see who can hit the two-ton mark with only the driver behind the wheel?
Hybrid power and sportcars should definitely be mutually exclusive.
Hybrid power and sportcars should definitely be mutually exclusive.
#94
i pwn therefore i am
I'm pretty sure this is what most rational people are saying. The only people really excited about the GTR are people who hang around car forums 16 hours a day. Everyone loves to talk about this car and magazine race it with every other car they can't afford, but that's it. The interior of that car is one of the worst I have seen in years and years.
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